Converting to Open Top -- Advice

[Dopey]

Hi Folks,

It's been over a year since I've been back here, but I have a problem and could use some input.

I'm moving, and am using the opportunity to reconfigure my tank from a traditional planted to an open top.

Here's what I have at the moment:

Tank: 90 Gallons, 48 long x 18 deep x 24 high
Lighting: 2x96W Bright Kits from AH Supply
Filtration: 2x Aquaclear 500
Substrate: Four inches of white pool sand mixed with several pounds of laterite gravel. Supplement with Jobe's occasionally.
CO2: High quality injection with a power diffuser (I think I got it from Dave Gomberg's website a couple of years ago.)
Fish: Random community -- primary residents are two blood parrots, four large angels, a peacock eel, four pictus cats and a 6" pleco that's gonna be my dinner next Friday if he doesn't stop eating my %&@@! Amazon Swords!!! (I know... not exactly a biotope!!)

My questions are:

First, what cannister filtration should I switch to? AC's are kind of ugly when not concealed by a hood. Also, the floorplan of the new house makes it advisable for me to bump this tank right up to the wall, not leave the 5 inch gap necessary for the ACs. I've always heard Eheims are the way to go if money is no object, but come on, money is always an object. I'm considering Fluval 404s, but have never used cannisters of any kind so am open to suggestions.

Second, do I have to (or should I) re do my lighting. The AH supply bright kits are great, but they are designed to be hood mounted. I suppose I could wangle some sort of design where they hang, but I'm no carpenter and aesthetics might be not so good. If I were going to start from scratch on my lighting, what would you recommend for an open top?

Third, and much less urgent, what sort of plants will give me a nice, narrowish vertical look with a nice display above the waterline. And will plants grow through eggcrate, or do I need cut holesin the eggcrateto let them emerge?

[somefinnfishy]

Here is an old pic of my open top 90 with a 260W aqualight on the mounting legs.

[Dopey]

Tx Finny Fish...

Do you have any pics that show the set up a little better... particularly what the light set looks like?

What sort of filter did you run?

[somefinnfishy]

I will get new pics this weekend.
Had a sump but use twin HOT magnums now much better.

[DIYMatt]

I have open top MH lit tanks and love them, including a 75 gallon open top. I will try to get pictures tonight and I will try to email them to you. I had trouble posting the pics before because they were too large. Anyways I love open top tanks, but I do not grow any plants emerged. I don't really know why, just never have. T o answer your questions:

1. Canisters - much debate here. I have owned Eheims, and own Filstars, a Fluval and Magnums. But, the only two I would recommend for primary filtration are Rena Filstars and Eheim Pro's. The only one I would never buy again would be the Fluvals. There is no advantage to them, IMO. I could go through why, but thats another post by itself. If price is no object the Eheim Pro II series is the best of the best. If price is an issue, go with the Filstar. Personally, they are my favorite, but you can't argue with Eheims longevity and impeccable reputation. Renas have been around only a few years and mine are still working great and you can almost buy Filstars for the price of one Eheim Pro II. Positives to both Rena and Eheim Pro, flexible, huge media compartments, excellent biofiltration capacity, and ease of maintenance. Advantage to just Rena, price at startup and cheaper accessories. I use the Magnums as clean-up filters or as a second polishing filter on a tank that has a good bio-filter, like my 75. Negatives to Mags, loud, peicey, almost no biofiltration capacity and require frequent maintenance. Positives cheap, the best mechanical only filter I have found. whew, I hope that helps!

2. Well, if you want to grow plants emerged from the tank and low foreground plants on the bottom of the tank, I would suggest MH pendants. The CF lights are excellent, but the light doesn't have the intensity MH's do, so it won't penetrate down as far into the water and you would have put the lights at least 8" above the tank to really grow plants emerged from the water. Thats a lot of distance for a CF light to penetrate. Now, if you just want an open top but keep the plants submerged or don't want high light foreground plants in the tank The CF on short legs or suspended above the tank would work great. There are quite a few companies that make these lights prebuilt, but I don't know specifically which ones. There are lots of different MH light setups to choose from also that come prebuilt. More info on this if you like just ask.....

3. Sorry, I don't which plants to suggest to grow emerged. But, why the egg crate? To keep fish in? I think that could be an aesthetic issue right there. Also if th palnts grow through it you would not be able to move it without damaging the plants I have used 3" high plexiglass jump guards ringin the tank in the past. This might sound bad, but I don't use anything now. I lost a couple fish when they were first introduced into the tank, but not one for over a year now. you just have to make sure you stay away form jumpers. None of the fish you listed are jumpers to my knowledge. I think it looks much nicer without the guard.

I hope this all helps!

[Dopey]

Matt,

Thanks for the GREAT post. To pick your brain further:


The only one I would never buy again would be the Fluvals. There is no advantage to them, IMO. I could go through why, but thats another post by itself.

OK... Why? I've heard much good about Fluvals, and not much of anything about Filstar. Please give me more info. Remember, I've been in the hobby for quite a couple of years, but have only ever used HOT filters, mostly Aquaclears. And I am trying to get away from anything HOT. This tank is going into a semi-formal dining area, and I want it "clean" to look at.



Positives to both Rena and Eheim Pro, flexible, huge media compartments, excellent biofiltration capacity, and ease of maintenance.

I've always been a little confused about the huge menus and recipes people have for stuffing their cannisters. I've only every used sponges and polyester fiber batting in my Aquaclears. No "bioballs" or "ceramic rings" or charcoal or anything else. I understand the advantage to having a large chamber for a lot of surface area regardless of what you are using. But then I wonder about ease of maintenance for the mechanical filtration. Does all the bio media make it difficult to regularly maintain the mechanical medium? I would imagine that biofiltration does not need near the number of cleanings that the mechanica filtration does.



The CF lights are excellent, but the light doesn't have the intensity MH's do, so it won't penetrate down as far into the water and you would have put the lights at least 8" above the tank to really grow plants emerged from the water.

Karen Randall had in interesting take on this in Aquarium Fish magazine. She feels that the "need lots of light to reach the bottom of the tank" is a myth. Her explanation is that much of the information on light loss comes from open water diving observations. She feels that vast majority of light in an aquarium is reflected off the sides of the glass and back into the tank, so light loss at a standard tank depth is negligible. Either way, I think I'm going to replace or at least "repackage" my lighting.


But, why the egg crate? To keep fish in? I think that could be an aesthetic issue right there. Also if th palnts grow through it you would not be able to move it without damaging the plants I have used 3" high plexiglass jump guards ringin the tank in the past.

Yeah... to keep the fish in. I agree it wouldlook unattractive, but much of the reading I've done suggests the use of it. I'm glad to hear someone who feels it is unnecessary. What is a "jump guard"? some sort of plexi skirt that rims the top of the tank? Is this a DIY job, or does someone actually market such a thing?

[Dopey]

To summarize, I'm looking for folks to please wade in on:

A) What cannister filter to buy for a soon-to-be open top planted 90G (and why that choice)


B) If, and to what, I should change my current lighting

(OR How to reconfigure my current lighting)

to accomodate emergent plant growth.

[DIYMatt]

Dopey- Sorry, I've been away awhile. But, I will try to answer the filter question, First.

Fluvals- The media is fixed to the layout Fluval provides and there is a lot of bypass inside their canisters. Maybe not the big of an issue, but I like to purchase the most flexible peices of equipment for future. Due to the small medai containers, IMO providing good mechanical filtration in a Fluval is very difficlut IMO. IT clogs very fast in those small containers. My biggest gripe is the cheesy tubing and inputs/outputs. THe ribbed tubing can clog easy, the size almost requires you use only Fluval accesories. The input/outputs require use the ribbed tubin for the angles and I can never get it lay the way I like. Also, the color sticks out like a sore thumb. Last, the build quality seems poor. I say a prayer that the shutoff handles don't snap off everytime I open it. Also, other have reported leak issues with the Fluvals. Not that the Fluval is the most terrible thing ever, but because of the above, I would not buy one agian. Not when you can get a filstar for about the same price or cheaper.

Filstars- Excellent build quality, the canister itself is really thick. I have dropped one in my sink and it survived when an Eheim did not survive in the same sink. Solid one handle shutoff disconnect that always works well for me. No by-pass, huge media chambers that allow you to use almost any media configuration. Better mechanical filtration due to shear larger size of media. They sell microfiltration pads for the filstars that work well. I would just suggest putting it on the bottom of the top compartment because you will have to change it less. If you put it opn the very top it only draws water throught the very middle and it clogs more quickly. The filters use a standard size tubing you can replace at Home Depot if need be. Also, you can inexpensive generic accesories with it. The Filstar comes standard with about any input/output configuration you could want. I use a spraybar in my tanks and thats what originally sold me on the filterthree years ago, I didn't have to buy any thing else. This might be my only complaint tho. THe input/outputs are peicy and pressfit together. Eheims and Mags come with one-peice units. I ended up siliconing the two peices that go over the side togehter to guard against leaks. It never actually leaked at all, but my filters becoming fountains are a fear of mine.

ON the bio versus mech issue, you are correct. IME- lots of "recipes" work well, especially in a plant tank, the plants do most of it for you. This is what I have in my filstar XP3's that seems to need the least amount of cleaning for me. The filstar XP3 has thre media chambers that lift out easily in it so here it is starting at the bottom:
1. Bio-balls (those plastic things used in wet/drys or ponds) with a "coarse" foam pad on top
2. Ceramic rings with a coarse foam on top.
3. Then 1/2 full with a smaller ceramic noodle thingy I have only seen in a store once. On top of that I usually have course foam with a fine foam on top. But this is where I can stuff it with Floss if I need or put carbon in a media bag.
4. PREFILTER- I almost forgot, I cut a slit in a AC200 foam block and slide it over the intake as a prefilter. Not necessary, but it cuts down on main filter maintenance.

For cleaning, after a water change, I open each container and wring the foam out in water change water and simply dunk the other media in the container in a bucket of water change water. The water draining back down takes most of the debris out. I clean my filters at most once a month usually more like every 6 weeks. It takes me less than 10 minutes from unhook to replace on my Filtstars.

For filters, I would definitely get a canister and you will be ahppy with either an Eheim or a Filstar. Eheims have an almost impeccable reputation and some people have been using them for decades. If you get an eheim, make sure it is one with shutoffs and disconnects and media baskets on the inside. THe ones I had did not have any of this and they were a pain to clean apparently most of the the new ones have these features.

ON your lighting, I can't really fully answer your questions since I do not grow plants emerged. I know Tom Barr(plantbrain on these boards) has had some open top emerged growth tanks.

The acrylic jump guard I spoke of was a DIY job. It was just a 4" tall plexiglass skirt that ran around the top of the tank. I had the plexiglass into 4" strips at Home depot and made the short cuts to fit with a saw carefully. Sanded the edges. Then I bought a peice of that clear corner protector for sheetrock corners in your house and cut those to fit and superglued them on. Basically I had a four peice unit that went around each corner and had seams in the middle. PM me if you ant mre info on this. IT was really simple, but you may need more detail. It was not he most aesthetically pleasing thing, but better than egg crate IMO. Part of what I like about open top tanks is the reflections from the water surface on the celing. THe egg crate eliminates most of that.

I hope this helps!

[Dopey]

Thanks.... I'm sold. Gonna order a Filstar XP3 from Big Al's. (Almost $20 cheaper than That Fish Place, btw.)

I'm going to start a new thread specific to my lighting questions.

Thanks Matt!!!!