barbs vs rams

[Lauren]

I was going to get 4 gold barbs for my 20g, but no one near me carries them. When i asked to special order them at my lfs the owner was very hesitant to do so because they don't sell well. He'll call me when he comes across some, but it won't be for a long while. I was thinking that instead of waiting indefinitely for some semi pretty fish about getting 2 or 3 German Blue Rams instead. I have gouramis and rasboras, so I know they'd get a long fine. I'm just concerned about crowding issues and care. I read that they are difficult to care for. Since I've stuck to hardy fish, I don't know if I'm ready for a difficult fish. Also, I have very hard water (naturally at about 20gh), which I already treat for my existing fish, but this is something to take into consideration.

When the tank is done, it will have a population something like this, tell me if there are too many fish, I haven’t gotten everyone yet, so I can tweak the numbers.

7 rasboras
6 white clouds
3 pygmy cory cats
2 dwarf gouramis
1 chinese algae eater

Then the barbs or rams.

[caz]

with 2 to 3, you might be pushing your limit, but i have a blue ram, and he is my favorite fish :) . not all species of ram are hard to take care of. i find that mine is very hardy

[somefinnfishy]

a bolivion ram would be a good choise much tougher fish and as if not more mild mannered than blue not as much color but a little larger 3.5" and much more personable also will like your tap water much better I breed them in 8.0 14/16 kh/gh

[PumaWard]

You might want to look into a pair of kribs as well. Both the bolivians suggested and the kribs are tougher fish than most rams seen at LFS's.

[Lauren]

my store doesn't carry bolivians, but I'll look into kribs.

thanks for your honest opinions.

[Lauren]

how are they on care? What do you have to do to keep rams a live? I read that you need to put peet in the water, are there any other things they need? I'm looking at getting a larger aquarium where I would love to keep some.

[PumaWard]

Most rams in LFS's need very soft, acidic water. European bred rams are a lot stronger, you can get them online at http://southernapistos.com . These rams are a lot nicer looking as well.

[Lauren]

oh WOW yes! Those ARE a lot more colorful than the ones at the lfs. A lot more expensive too. With my water, I should just get chiclids, but I like communities. I treat it to bring it down to 7ph and 150ppms, but naturally, my water has a ph of 8 and about 400ppms. Yeah... you should see the calcium deposits in my dish washer. Are those shipped fish less delicate? If so, that plus the colors may be worth those shipping charges.

But 2 or 3 is pushing it huh? The algae fish can be easily removed (my sister wants him for her 10) and the gouramis and cories have yet to be added, so they can be removed or their numbers lessened. I love rams a lot, I wish I could make this work. If not in my 20g, I'll just wait to find a bigger aquarium and add them there, but I was thinking about taking advantage of my water and doing a cichlid tank. I think they will be best in the larger tank, more territory for them to choose.

[Lauren]

bump for an answer

[fishdude]

yes! german blue rams!!!!! they are the best!!!!!!
i have 3 and they arent thatard to keep there beutiful and the ae cichlids

*cichlid FREAK*

[edit] oh and my avatar is a pic of a german blue ram

[Lauren]

I yeah, I've noticed your avatar, its my favorite on the site (besides the nemo sushi one, but that one for humor, yours for beauty) I would like a stocking answer still. "Rules of thumb" or any general stocking information would be nice. I guess I could still consider myself new to the hobby and I've yet to learn how to gage stocking.

[fishdude]

heres a little formula (not really little:p) for finding out how many fish can be in your tank.

take the surface area of your tank( length times width), then divide that number by twelve for tropical freshwater, and that is the max inches of fish you can safely have in your tank.

The reason that the inche of fish to gallon formula doesnt work is because surface area determines the amount of oxygen that dissolves in the water.


so for example. My ten gallon tank has a length of 20 in, and a width of 10. So multiply 20 and 10 and you get 200, divide that by twelve and you get 16.999999999 rounded out thats about seventeen inches.

all freshwater fish need about 12 sq in of space
all coldwater need27 sq in
and all marine need 47 sq in

sertain fish though, like anabantids(gouramis and siamese fighter fish) can live in low oxygen conditions. The reason for this is that they have an auxillary breathing organ called a labyrinth. thats why siamese fighters can live in small cups and such.

and good luck!

and that is just going safe if u have really good filtration u might be able to bend the rules a little
and arent rules made to be broken :p :D

[somefinnfishy]

rule on the blue rams are .5 sq feet of surface area per ram
works for me even when spawning.

[Hans]

http://www.geocities.com/mikefjacobs/ramgreat1.jpg :eek: :eek: :eek:

[TKOS]

I wouldn't move that algae eater to anything smaller, but definatley to something bigger. They get very large and stop eating alage once they grow up. They also get very aggressive and can atatck other fish.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by TKOS
I wouldn't move that algae eater to anything smaller, but definatley to something bigger. They get very large and stop eating alage once they grow up. They also get very aggressive and can atatck other fish.

mine is fine, well he's retarded, he just chaces his reflection around. He hasn't grown a centemeter in months, he's only abut 2 1/2 inchs right now, and he doesn't bother any of my fish. He could care less about what they are doing.

But if you still think he needs to move, thta's a problem. I may be getting a 75 gallon soon, but I'm hoping to make that a cichlid tank, I don't know if that would be a good place for him either.

[TKOS]

As I said it isn't until they start to get bigger that they can become a major problem. They would probably be fine in a cichlid tank of the size you mention once they get more aggressive.

[Lauren]

He doesn't eat algae anymore, I think he is full grown. I've had him for months, he hasn't grown at all. And when I say no problems, I mean no problems, he's a whimp, he never bothers any fish, and they dont' bother him. But anways, he will be okay with malawi cichlids? That's good to know.

[fishdude]

OMG hans !!! those are some AWSOME rams
*dreams*
i wish mine were like that