TB exposed fish - NC - shipping

[paperdragon]

Ok, I know this is kind of wishful thinking, most people don't have the resources or inclination to take on fish that have could be sick and have to be treated as health hazards to any other tanks for their entire lives. But I really hate to have to euthanize them when they seem perfectly fine and may have immunity to mycobacteria.

These fish have shared tanks with fish that've had a definite diagnosis of fish tb, and should not at any point in their lives be added to a tank with other fish than the ones coming from these tanks. Another thing to note is that there are different strains so if you have a fish that's already shown immunity to one, it may not be immune to another.

If you decide to adopt, I strongly suggest that you wear gloves during maintenance and disinfect any spills, and also remember not to cross-contaminate other tanks.

I can include plants, food, and some smaller equipment if needed (heaters, nets)- and if you want to cover shipping on them I can send filters of various sizes.
Depending on how many fish are adopted I may be able to cover the shipping, or part of it.

Now on to the fish themselves... None of the bottom dwellers show any sign of disease (although they are likely carriers)

The 11" pleco (named Big Fishy by my niece):
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Squirrelborg/pleco.jpg

He's my top priority, I'll definitely cover the express mail shipping costs if anyone can take him.

The dojos, Skinny Boy, Big Girl, and Little Girl (yeah, real imaginative names. lol):
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Squirrelborg/dojos.jpg

The Kuhlis (there's 7, but they all look alike and are never out all at once):
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Squirrelborg/kuhli.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Squirrelborg/kuhli2.jpg

My one remaining cory:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Squirrelborg/cory.jpg


The goldfish - Bunkin (roughly 3" calico fantail) and Kizzy (2" ranchu). Both are spending a little more time sitting around than they used to, but still seem fairly active and eating like pigs:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Squirrelborg/goldies.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa282/Squirrelborg/kizzy.jpg


Edit: in case anyone's wondering, I'm not just dumping them off because I don't want to take care of them. I live with my parents (one of whom has an autoimmune disease) and have a big pile of very young nieces and nephews (and a somewhat older one with autism) coming in and out of the house that are fascinated by my tanks and keep wanting to let the fishies bite their fingers. I don't have the means to set the tanks up out of reach.

[paperdragon]

Looks like I can cover the shipping for everyone. Someone on another forum has offered to sponsor shipping for one package to someone that has to resources to care for some of these guys. :)

[Ryi]

Best of luck to you. Have you looked into Kanaplex? Pretty reasonable in price but I have no idea what the regimen is. Wish you could keep them, they look well-loved and cared-for.

[paperdragon]

Thanks. From what I've read treatment with kanamycin takes anywhere from 30 days to 3 months (plus doesn't often work), and my parents want the fish out of here much sooner than that.

[excuzzzeme]

Re-homing fish with the possibility of being a carrier for a highly contagious disease is not very responsible. Smarter action would be to euthanize or for you to treat. You risk spreading a disease and turning a minor outbreak into a major health concern. Sometimes the hardest and most drastic action is the correct one. It sucks but is sometimes necessary.

[paperdragon]

Re-homing fish with the possibility of being a carrier for a highly contagious disease is not very responsible. Smarter action would be to euthanize or for you to treat. You risk spreading a disease and turning a minor outbreak into a major health concern. Sometimes the hardest and most drastic action is the correct one. It sucks but is sometimes necessary.

I just figured if I already know one person that already is dealing with fish with TB and doesn't mind taking on more, there might be other folks out there that are the same. I had originally planned on euthanizing all of them until that one person was so adamant on me finding homes (She's taking the goldfish and dojo loaches as well as the remaining bettas, and has handled tb cases for several years without contaminating unaffected fish).

Man, there's just no universal "right way" to deal with this. I don't want to spread disease, but I've just been treated like a monster elsewhere for mentioning euthanasia for fish that aren't visibly ill even with definite exposure to tb.

[Rbishop]

I don't feel anyone is a monster for putting TB contaminated fish down, and I commend you for trying to find them homes. Though, I worry about how they will take shipping.

[froglover007]

I saw your other thread about TB. Sucks that it got into your tanks. It is my worst nightmare as a fish keeper. I would take some but dont have any space for isolation.
Best of luck.

[excuzzzeme]

. . . .
Man, there's just no universal "right way" to deal with this. I don't want to spread disease, but I've just been treated like a monster elsewhere for mentioning euthanasia for fish that aren't visibly ill even with definite exposure to tb.

I would hardly consider you to be a monster for taking action that might be the most prudent.

For someone to suggest otherwise is a bit short-sighted. If you recall the avian flu outbreak and the mad cow diseases that occurred, oftentimes the possible innocent and healthy were also euthanized to stop the spread. It was neither pleasant or cruel but it did just what was hoped - it stopped the immediate spread.

With fish TB being able to spread to humans isn't being cautious worth more? Good luck.

[Reframer]

I still don't believe that fish TB is much of a threat to humans unless you cut your hand in the tank and then don't wash it. Most people don't do that.
Even if you do get it, antibiotics will take care of it. Not like it kills people (that I know of).
I doubt anyone else will be able to take them, but good luck to you.

I grew up with tons of turtles, snakes, and other reptiles and amphibians. The risk for a small child getting salmonela is much greater than getting fish TB. yet, we never had any problems in my house because we learned to wash our hands properly.

[Inka4040]

Given the possibility of bag breakage en route, and the letter carriers having no ability to consent to the even slight possibility of being exposed to the disease, I feel like shipping these fish anywhere would be tremendously irresponsible.

[paperdragon]

Given the possibility of bag breakage en route, and the letter carriers having no ability to consent to the even slight possibility of being exposed to the disease, I feel like shipping these fish anywhere would be tremendously irresponsible.

Hm, I hadn't thought of that possibility. :(

[SubRosa]

I still don't believe that fish TB is much of a threat to humans unless you cut your hand in the tank and then don't wash it. Most people don't do that.
Even if you do get it, antibiotics will take care of it. Not like it kills people (that I know of).
I doubt anyone else will be able to take them, but good luck to you.

I grew up with tons of turtles, snakes, and other reptiles and amphibians. The risk for a small child getting salmonela is much greater than getting fish TB. yet, we never had any problems in my house because we learned to wash our hands properly.
My experience with fish TB is a bit different than your description. But my experience is just that, experience. Experience trumps belief every time.

[paperdragon]

Meh, I guess mods can close this.

[platytudes]

The bag's going to break and then the damp cardboard is going to make the postman have a skin infection? I just find it hard to believe.

Reefkeepers keep all sorts of stinging and poisonous things in their tank. They wear gloves and take precautions. The same could be done with an infected tank. How contagious do we know it to be anyway? If you use a net in the infected tank and then leave it to air dry and then use it 4 days later is the bacteria still going to be on it? I kind of don't think it will be (but I don't know).

If someone wanted to take these fish, that would be up to them...full disclosure here. There are people who adopt cats with feline leukemia. There could be people who adopt fish with fish TB, you never know?

So I personally commend the effort...even though I think it is unlikely they will find homes, unfortunately. It's hard enough to rehome a common pleco, etc.

[Cluunox]

Shipping a known possible contagious desease through the mail? You are much braver than I I'll give you that

[paperdragon]

If you use a net in the infected tank and then leave it to air dry and then use it 4 days later is the bacteria still going to be on it? I kind of don't think it will be (but I don't know).

Ehhh... not a good idea. I'd use net disinfectant, then let it dry, and never use that net for any other tank.


So, obviously posting this thread wasn't a great idea. Even aside from the potential problems people have pointed out, not everyone is used to practicing sterile technique with their tanks well enough for it to work out.

I'm going to pm a mod to just close this.

[NYCguppydude]

Epidemiology of Infection by Nontuberculous Mycobacteria


A must read ..........http://cmr.highwire.org/cgi/reprint/9/2/177.pdf

[platytudes]

It's not that I don't know how to practice sterilization, I am just posing a hypothetical question - can the bacterial spores or whatever resist being dried? I just think it would be good to find this out, because no matter how careful you are there are going to be splashes and spills.

[platytudes]

Epidemiology of Infection by Nontuberculous Mycobacteria


A must read ..........http://cmr.highwire.org/cgi/reprint/9/2/177.pdf

It does look incredibly informative, however at 39 pages with narrow margins, it is a DENSE read that's for sure. Too bad PDFs aren't searchable...