Nitrite and ammonia spike

[danettem]

Yesterday we replaced our crushed coral with sand. We saved all the coral substrate, put it in nylons, and left it in the tank. Fish and LR all went back in. Nothing was allowed to dry, in an effort to maintain the critters. Today our water tests revealed an ammonia of 1, which has always tested at .25, Nitrite was .25, which has always been zero, and Nitrates were 20, they have always been 40-80, part of the reason we decided to switch to sand to begin with. Would the new sand be causing the spikes, even with all of the crushed coral still in the tank? I am planning to do 20% water changes every couple of days until things even out, but at what point should I panic about my levels. The fish seem perfectly happy at this point, but I don't want to wake up to dead fish.

[Gealcath]

When you take the crushed coral out, you took out alot of the bio-filter (same thing happened to mine when i remove the crushed coral and replaced with sand, except i had a bio-wheel which removed the ammonia and nitrites)

[DEmigh]

As a thought:

Can you position the nylons containing the old CC in a higher water flow area; maybe in front of an intake or output?

Edit: I'm cycling the sand for a DSB right now. I used some of the CC from my existing substrate to "seed" the sand. Using a Hagen 402 powerhead w/ the "Quick Filter" attachment, I carefully spooned about a cup of the CC into the cavity, put the "filter" on the powerhead, and used that to circulate the water in the sand tub.

The ammonia metabolizing bacteria got off to a great start, but the nitrite metabolizers are still catching up. As OrionGirl put it, "they can be a bit poky." I've got 'trates, so the nitrite eaters are there, just not yet in large quantities.

OrionGirl warns me that the nitrate metabolizers require even longer to establish themselves, so you'll have to continue to manage 'trates the same way you've been for upwards of a couple of months yet.

[danettem]

I have placed the nylons in front of my powerheads, in an attempt to circulate the good stuff. My levels have not changed since last night. So I pobably do not need to panic about this, right now? I am probably just niave, but I was not expecting to see much of any spike, considering I left ALL of the old crushed coral in there. Would the introduction of that much (150 pounds) new material explain the change in levels?

[danettem]

My ammonia is now at 1.0, although my nitrites have dropped to close to zero. My nitrates are steady. I realize the high ammonia is probably stressing the fish, setting them up for disease. But at what point will high ammonia lead to outright fish death?

[OrionGirl]

Any levels will contribute to early death--either from damage, or from the reduction n the fishes immune system. Water changes to reduce the levels, and keep them below 1 ppm, are very important.

Did you replace all the water? If not, what were the test levels before the change? How long did the conversion take? How much live rock do you have? Any other changes?

[danettem]

We did not replace all of the water, only about 10%. The conversion took about an hour and a half, but we were very careful to keep all live rock and crushed coral in saltwater during the entire process. Before the change, Ammonia tested at .25 (Where it always tests on our American Pharmaceuticals kit, freshly mixed saltwater tests at .25 as well) Our nitrates were at zero, and our nitrites were at 40, where they have always been. We have 50 pounds of live rock, that came with the intact tank (fish and all) when we bought it from a friend. However, as we learn more, we have become concerned that the live rock was somehow murdered by the previous owner. There seems to be no growth of any kind on the rock, whether algae or other, so unfortunately we are less than sure of the state of our LR. I am doing 30% water changes every other day to try to keep the levels down, but I'm wondering if I did something awful to my tank.

[OrionGirl]

Ammonia should never be detectable in a cycled, healthy tank. The test kit could be old (they do have a shelf life), or the tank is somehow constantly out of balance. Or, there could be ammonia in your tap water--but I think it more likely the kit has gone bad.

I'm guessing you reversed your nitrites and nitrates readings--nitrites of 40 is lethal to pretty well everything in the tank. Nitrates of 40 is still high--this should be less than 20.

Keeping the old water wasn't needed. I would keep maybe 10% of it, but use mostly new water, so you don't import wastes.

Growth on live rock is more a matter of lighting--the 'life' that you need is bacterial, and not visible to the naked eye. If the rock has been kept with a food source, the bacteria should be present and viable.

How long was the tank running prior to the substrate change?

[danettem]

The tank has been running for a year, but we have only had it for 2 months. I did indeed mix up my nitrites and nitrates. When I use the ammonia test on tap water, the reading is zero, but as soon as I add Instant Ocean to the water it reads .25. I am planning a huge water change this evening, to try and clean up the ammonia problem, but I am guessing the best that I can do until this calms down is a big water change every day or two. Any better ideas? Thank you so much for all your insight, I have the feeling very few new saltwater aquariums would survive without help like this.

[OrionGirl]

So the tank was broken down and moved 2 months ago, correct? Any ammonia spikes between now and then?

It's odd that the addition of IO shows ammonia. Does your water have chloramines? If so, how do you treat them? Some water treatments break down the chloramine, and some bind the resulting ammonia and others do not. Also, some test kits detect both ammonia and ammonium--ammonium being the bound ammonia, which is not toxic to fish. Your test kit should indicate if it detects both, or only one.

Regular water changes to prevent a severe spike will be your best bet.

[danettem]

No ammonia spikes at all since the move. My test kit says it tests ammonia only, nothing about ammonium, however, on the front it lists Ammonia as NH3/NH4. We have been treating for chloramines with AmQuel. I just did a 50% water change, which dropped my ammonia reading to .50 and my nitrates to 20, my nitrite is still 0. When we moved the tank, we preserved everything, water, LR, and crushed coral substrate and moved it over in coolers. That day it tested fine, and has ever since, with the exception of the nitrates.

[OrionGirl]

NH4 is ammonium. So you may want to get a test kit that excludes the ammonium--otherwise, you will won't know which is toxic ammonia and which is non-toxic ammonium.

[danettem]

Thank you, I will get a new kit. Any theories as to how long the tragic water situation will last?

[OrionGirl]

Should be too long--you have the bacteria colonies, they just need to grow. As long as the waste load is the same, I'd say 4-5 days.

[danettem]

Well, it has been several weeks, our ammonia is still through the roof, over 2 before we add amquell every night. Our nitrites and nitrates are firmly at zero, a bad sign for the progression of our cycle, I think. None of the fish have died, thanks in part to 50% water changes every couple of days and massive amounts of amquell, but I'm afraid we have killed our tank. The fish are obviously unhappy, and ich is a problem. Any ideas?