Gold Ram Pimple

[sorberj]

OK, so just when I thought I was in the clear, I have a gold ram that's developed a couple of pimples on his forehead. It isn't Ich for sure (I've dealt with ich a couple of times and it appears to be under the skin. The best description I have is of a white raised area with a white top and unbroken skin covering the entire thing. The overall size is about 1.5mm wide and about .5 mm high.

I did a water change last night and I didn't notice anything then, but I didn't look very closely since it was late. Prior to the water change, the water was at:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20-30 (it's hard to tell by the colors)
Test Kit: API Master Test
Temp: 78 degrees
pH 7.6-7.8
gH 6.72
KH 5.05
Water Conditioner: Prime

Tank: 55 gal, fully planted
Filter: Jebo 839 (about 400gph)

Ferts: Flourish (every other day) Excel (twice per week) per instructions

Water change: Weekly with vac for Gibbiceps pleco poo, although I did do an exta one yesterday because a piece of kale that I put in for the pleco and otos didn't get eaten and started smelling a bit

Here's the best pics I can round up using the cell phone cam:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2058&pictureid=17635

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2058&pictureid=17633

[bradlgt21]

kinda looks like what happened to my german blue ram. Except his was on the gill plate. He was fine for like 6 months, I tried treating it many times and it never got better with anything. He eventually died. Good luck I wish I could tell you something helpful but I didn't have any luck with mine.

[sorberj]

yeah, I read your thread....that's why I was hoping to catch it early. Did it spread to any other fish?

[bradlgt21]

Nope, I didn't have any other rams though. So maybe it's a ram thing. One thing I was thinking is fish can get warts. If thats what my fish had and yours has you might have better luck since mine was near the gills and might have been the problem.

[sorberj]

Thanks, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. He's in QT right now and on a Maracyn II regimen. I'll go through that course, but may try Kanamycin or Furan 2 if the Maracyn doesn't clear it up. I generally don't like to go directly to the heavy hitters on the antibiotic spectrum, but in this case I'd rather err on the side of caution. If it's viral, like warts, there isn't anything I can do but prevent a secondary infection, so here's to keeping fingers crossed.

[sorberj]

Update: Quarantine for about a week now. Treated with maracyn II (one course) with no effect. Switched to metronidazole and the size of the white area has reduced by half and the area is no longer elevated. The metro treatment appears to be working. The plan is to finish a week on the metro and see if there is continued progress.

[sorberj]

Update: After one week of metronidazole the pimple relapsed. I tried a combination of metro and maracyn II for one week under the theory that it was the combo between the two medications that resulted in the reduction. This time there was no effect. I switched to Furan on Thursday, by Saturday, the pimple had opened, by Sunday, a smaller pimple had re-formed. Checked today (tuesday), and there is no sign of the pimple. I'm going to continue the furan for the full course and reintroduce the fish to the main tank if no signs appear.

[bradlgt21]

Looks like your getting good results. If it clears up watch him like a hawk. I had my GBR looking better once after a salt treatment and put him back in the main tank. A month later it was back and he stayed in QT the rest of his life.

[platytudes]

Just a thought, this might be a precursor to Hexamita, which may explain why Metronidazole was so successful. Feeding it as a medicated food would probably be most effective. And I would try New Life Spectrum Thera A - garlic flakes would be another alternative.

Incidentally, this happened to my blue ram too - he died a few months after that. I think I can dig up a pic...

[platytudes]

Yep, here it is...

Didn't spread, did recede somewhat with medication (General Cure) but never went away completely. I haven't been able to keep blue rams successfully ever since I moved into a house with rock hard well water. Before that I used to get them to spawn for me :(

[sorberj]

The furan seems to be working well, no sign of new pimples, however now the wound where the pimple opened has become infected with what I think is a true fungus. I'm thinking Maracin-Oxy for a treatment.

here's the pic for confirmation:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2058&pictureid=18229

[mel_20_20]

I think you are absolutely right, that is true fungus. You could use a little malachite green to treat this, is he in a hospital tank?

[platytudes]

Yep, an aerated dip could also be effective...

[mel_20_20]

Soberj, the following is from a thread on a little fish named Indy, that fully recovered from a fungus infection after an injury to his operculum.

I think I'd do the malachite green. Jennie Beth settled on Quick Cure.

You could also go with Jungle Labs Fungus clear has potassium dichromate for the fungus, and two antibiotics; Nitrofurazone, and Furazolodone.

I've had no experience with the Maracyn-Oxy, but it may be a good choice, too. Here's the exchange betweeen Jennie Beth and Flaringshutter. I thought I'd copy and paste it because it has the dosing info for malachite green.

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Jen, that green bit still doesn't sound normal even if she's had it for a while. I would still treat with the malachite green. It won't hurt her if she doesn't have sap, and it will take care of whatever fungus it is that is growing on her operculum. Malachite green is very effective against all fungus. Best of luck! :)


Jennie Beth (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/member.php?u=94999)
Senior Member

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Got a bottle of Quick Cure--only thing I could find with the malachite green in it. Dosage says 1 drop per gallon daily, max 3 daily treatments, effective in 48 hrs or less. Would you recommend one dose and wait, or plan on two or more? Gotta say, I am scared to drop more med bombs on the poor girl, but I want to see her better. Funny, my $5 goldfish is worth a small fortune all of a sudden :)

Off to do a water change, filter change, and then nuke the green stuff (making trumpet noises) wish me luck!
Jen

[sorberj]

Thanks all. I don't know that I have any malachite green on hand right now. He is in a hospital tank (has been since the pimple appeared). I was really hoping to be able to reintroduce him at the end of the week, but it doesn't look like it now. On the bright side, I did get to try out the new camera, no more cell phone pics!

I started with the maracin-Oxy which is all the LFS had on hand right now. It's a 5 day course, so I'll see how long it takes for the fungus to disappear. I'm a little concerned since it breaks down with dechlorinator. Makes it easy to remove, but not necessarily easy to treat with since a W/C with prime will probably break it all down.

[mel_20_20]

Hope things get better for him. Man, I've seen so many threads with Rams that develop pimples. Makes me wonder about fish TB, since Rams are prone to that.

If I had Rams, I swear I believe I'd have a UV sterilizer in my tank after reading the article on this by Diana Walstad. http://thegab.org/Articles/WalstadMyco_APC1.pdf

This may not be the problem, but it sure seems like a possiblity.

[sorberj]

Well, good news, I checked on him this morning and the visible fungus is gone. I'm going to continue with the full course for the Maracin Oxy since I generally believe in following the manufacturers instructions so as not to end up with a resistant strain of a pathogen. I also want to wait for the wound to fully heal before putting the fish back into the tank. I might still be able to re-introduce him this weekend if I'm lucky (and get the hospital container off of the kitchen counter!)

I'm hoping it's not TB, since the fish was in the main community tank. None of the other fish, including another ram have shown signs of infection, but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I have been thinking about getting a UV sterilizer for a while now, but didn't necessarily want to spring for the money. I guess I could have paid for one with what I've spent on meds over time though.

I've been pretty aggressive in treatment on this guy since I saw the initial pimple and read up on the other threads. I figured that the risk of a negative reaction to an unproven combo of meds is probably outweighted by the fact that everyone else treating a similar symptom has had a negative final outcome. He's been eating well (comes to the top of the qt looking for food when I lift the lid). I'm continuing to soak blood-worms in metro before feeding them to him in case there is a residual infection, and I'm still finishing up the second course of Furan II. Between that and 75% water changes, he should have a fighting chance.

I'm also thinking that there is a possibility that it's a viral infection. I'm doing some research on that end now. There's not a lot of literature on viruses in Rams (at least research in journals I can access), but I want to try to rule out a known virus.

[sorberj]

I was getting ready to reintroduce him last night when I noticed a red splotch on the side of his body. It wasn't large, and I thought he might have just injured himself, but just to be safe, I kept him in the quarantine tank and started a new course of antibiotics.

I just checked on him this morning and he was in full-blown dropsy. The fungal infection returned and the red splotches had spread throughout the body. My diagnosis was total immune collapse with multiple infections, including columnaris and true fungus. His gills were red and he was gasping at the surface, darting around, and alternatively going sideways.

I just couldn't put him through one more cycle of treatment and recovery, especially since this time the chances of making it to recovery were so low. I gave him a water change so that he would have clean water and put in a few frozen blood worms (his favorite), he tried to eat them and may have gotten a few, but he had a hard time controlling his swimming.

I found the bottle of melafix (which contains clove oil), and moved him into a small container, I started dropping in the melafix until his gills stopped, I waited a few minutes and added enough for a 55 gallon tank. When I was sure, I moved his container to the freezer. He's there right now. Peaceful. I'll put him out in the garden tonight. I feel like I did the right thing, but it's not exactly how I planned on starting my morning.

Here's what he looked like this morning:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2058&pictureid=18329

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2058&pictureid=18330

And here's how I want to remember him:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2058&pictureid=17633

[bradlgt21]

Sorry for your loss. I was really pulling for your guy.

[halfmoonplakat]

I'm so sorry, but you definitely did the right thing
R.I.P.

[sorberj]

Thanks...I knew that it was a possibility and had prepared. It was still hard to put him into that dish and start administering the anesthetic. He's outside in the garden, right next to a "dry" riverbed bit of gravel I put in for channeling water from the downspout. Being in the Pacific Northwest, it's pretty close to a stream on a regular basis. Thank you again for your support. Having this place to post and greive has been really helpful for me.

I do wonder if there is the possibility of some sort of viral infection, or immune disorder due to poor breeding. I do still have my other ram that came from the same tank at the same LFS (and probably the same batch), and he's doing fine...growing pretty large actually and coloring up beautifully. I think I'm going to take mel's advice about the UV sterilizer though. It can't hurt and would be a good idea in the long run anyhow. Of course, now with my honey-do list of aquarium projects, I'll be looking at several sterilizers...I wonder if you can get a bulk discount?