pH swings in snail tank

Saje

Saje

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Sep 27, 2009
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New York
I have a 20 gallon long diffusa-only tank ("mystery snails"). The pH out of the tap is between 8.0 and 8.2. The problem is that, after about a day, the pH in the TANK is about 7.5. First, I've no idea why the drop? Unless just waste etc does that? Second, if I need to do a water change of more than, let's say 25% (as when the bottom needs to be thoroughly vacuumed), the snails act really stressed for a full day or two (closed up on bottom etc). I can only assume this is because of the wide difference between the pH in the tank and the pH of the new water going in. What do I do about this? Do I only vacuum a small part of the bottom at a time (and so, a smaller water change)? Or do I get one of those battery-operated vacuums that doesn't remove water in order to clean the gravel so the water change can stay small? Or is there something else I need to be doing? These big pH swings just can't be good.

BTW, params are: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, about 8 nitrate, temp is 75, tank pH is about 7.5. Hard water (will retest Kh and Gh).

Thanks...
 
You're probably right that the pH swing is causing them to hide...as to what is causing it more info will probably be needed

I usually also vacuum about 50% of the substrate one week and 50% the next week...just to prevent too much junk from being removed from the tank

Clean tanks + snails don't really mix unfortunately

Do you have any live plants in the tank? Driftwood?
 
Different invert but discussion of the problem can be found here: Controlling pH in the Dwarf Snail Tank.

Maybe if you could find a way to pre-treat 5g or so of water beforehand so it was at or below the level in the tank, then however much more of the tap water you had to add wouldn't have so great an effect. Sounds like you have pretty good buffering in the tank though, if it returns to "normal" as quickly as it does.
 
as to what is causing it more info will probably be needed
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Okay - just let me know what info you need and I'll do my best to get it for you!

And okay - will do as you do and just do 50% of the gravel each week rather than attempting the whole thing. And yup - filthy little creatures, aren't they!? :rolleyes:

And no ... no live plants (I have a pitch black thumb, truly - I tried, ohhh I tried, but live plants and I do not mix) and no driftwood. I read that driftwood would lower the pH, and I wanted it in the high 7s, so nope, no wood.

XanAvaloni - thanks for the link. Will read that now.
Maybe if you could find a way to pre-treat 5g or so of water beforehand
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Any suggestions as to what to treat it with? Talking about the pH Down kind of stuff?
Sounds like you have pretty good buffering in the tank though, if it returns to "normal" as quickly as it does.
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What buffers it do you think? That's the weird thing. There's nothing in there that should be lowering the pH. (The tank is just gravel [bag said it does not affect the pH... can go grab the bag and tell you exactly what it is if that'll help?], a couple of plants - one big plastic and one silk - terra cotta pots, and the filter, heater, and thermometer.) What could the drop be from, do you think?
 
I am pretty sure that there is normally a change in ph in tap water after the water sits (such as in an aquarium) for a while. I believe it is caused by gases leaving the water. I would not worry about it.

Can you get a sample of tap water and place it in a shallow container and let it sit for 24 hours and then test it? This will allow the gasses to escape for a more accurate tap water ph reading.
 
Jspigs said:
I am pretty sure that there is normally a change in ph in tap water after the water sits (such as in an aquarium) for a while. I believe it is caused by gases leaving the water. I would not worry about it.

Can you get a sample of tap water and place it in a shallow container and let it sit for 24 hours and then test it? This will allow the gasses to escape for a more accurate tap water ph reading.
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A pH swing from CO2 off gassing would cause the water to become more basic, not the opposite, since dissolved CO2 is acidic.

What's the KH of the water?
 
jpappy789 said:
A pH swing from CO2 off gassing would cause the water to become more basic, not the opposite, since dissolved CO2 is acidic.

What's the KH of the water?
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Oops, my bad. I knew gases leaving the water could affect ph but I was wrong about which way.
 
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did you test the tap after letting it sit out overnight?


You want hard water and high pH for snails. Do not use added chemicals in an invert tank.
 
did you test the tap after letting it sit out overnight?
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In progress! A water sample has been sitting out since about noon today - so will be able to let you guys know what the pH of it is tomorrow.
You want hard water and high pH for snails. Do not use added chemicals in an invert tank.
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Yup - that's why I'm concerned as to why my high pH out of the tap (8.0 - 8.2) is dropping so much once in the tank for a day. And no, I don't want to add anything, I just didn't know what XanAvaloni meant when they said that maybe "pre-treating" to bring the pH down would be helpful - that's why I asked if a pH adjuster thing was meant. I was hoping not as I don't want to add anything, as you say.

Second - the KH. Hoping you guys who know this test can help here. I have the liquid API KH and GH test. The GH is straight forward. The KH instructions say that the test is complete when the color changes from blue to yellow. But then they say it's determined by the number of drops required to achieve a "bright yellow". ?? So am I counting the number of drops to ANY change to yellow, however pale? Or am I counting the drops beyond that - up until a bright yellow is achieved?

The results were the following. Decent difference, again, between tank and tap. I don't get it.

GH (tap): 6 drops (so 107.4
GH (tank): 10 drops (so 179)

KH (tap, and only to the change from blue to really pale yellow): 3 drops (so 53.7)
KH (tap - to bright yellow): 6 drops (so 107.4)
KH (tank, and only to pale yellow): 4 drops (so 71.6)
KH (tank, to bright yellow) 6 drops (so 107.4)

I'm not sure what these numbers mean exactly ... I live in a county known for its hard water (been called "liquid rock" and have constant mineral deposits etc), but the numbers don't seem to bear that out? And again, particularly with the GH, why the difference between tank and tap and does it affect them badly in a water change?
 
Hoping someone has some input on those numbers above?

Also, I did leave some water out for nearly 24 hours, and tested the pH. Out of tap it's 8.0-8.2. When left standing for a long while, it's more around 7.5, like the tank water. Why is that? Now, I did not treat it with Prime - just left it standing out. So, if I now need to leave the water change water out for 24 hours before using, how on earth do I get it to the right temperature? Please tell me it's simpler (and less expensive) than having to buy heaters for the buckets or something?

Thanks...
 
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