Expensive fishie shopping trip today

[Celura]

Well, went to the local PetSmart for Sushi today. Here's what I bought the little guy for his new home, and to improve my Betta caretaking skills:

1 small container Tetra Sundried Baby Shrimp Treats (not cubes)
1 box Doc Wellfish's Aquarium Salt for freshies
1 Combo pack of NovAqua and AmQuel
1 PH tester kit with "up" and "down" drops for PH adjustments
2 Java Ferns - they were kinda small, and he does a lot of relaxing in the leaves ;)

Whew... $30 later I should have a happy fish, don't ya think? Hopefully I can be a better Betta mom now.

Please feel free to comment or give suggestions on my purchases. :)

[shewlett]

Those were all worthwhile purchases. On the aquarium salt be careful not to overdo it. I use Doc Wellfish aquarium salt for my betta and use slightly less than the recommended amount (1 tablespoon per 5 gallons). For a two gallon tank you might want to try one teaspoon (there are three teaspoons per tablespoon). I wouldn't agonize over pH too much ... as long as it is in the 6.8 to 7.3 range you should be fine, just don't let it fluctuate as rapid fluctuations will stress your fish. For food, Hikari Betta BioGold baby pellets is great stuff. With floating pellets you can ration the food exactly and not have any excess that sinks to the bottom and starts fouling the water.

[Celura]

Wow, thanks for the insight on the salt!

I do currently use the Hikari Betta Bites to feed him with. I feed him twice daily (morning and night) about 4-5 pellets each time. Does that sound like enough/too much food? He usually eats it all up pretty quick.

[OrionGirl]

Why salt a freshwater tank?
I use salt exclusively for treating a problem, rather than a general additive. With the aquarium salt, you really have no clue what you are adding to the water--there is no list of ingredients. Regardless, there is no viable reason to salt a FW tank.

I encourage you to read RTR's article: http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/salt.shtml

[TKOS]

The ph tester kit is good to have. But I would avoid the up and down drops. Without knwo the hardness of your water (both kh and gh) those drops can do more harm than good. Bettas are pretty good at a large range of ph. The best thing is stability. My bettas's water is 7.4ph since I moved. Before themove it was 6.5. I did a slow change over for him and the only thing I add to my water is a good dechlorinator.

I agree with Oriongirl about the salt. I do keep it on hand as a useful medication in case it may be needed. It is the one medication that won't go bad with age.

[Celura]

Thanks for the input, everyone. :)

I bought the salt and the other supplies per the recommendations on Bettatalk.com. She suggested a tiny bit of salt and to adjust the PH if I had to. Is she wrong?

[OrionGirl]

Salt is not a requirement for freshwater fish--it does not provide anything for the fish that healthy water and nutritional foods will not.

The pH Up and Down products seldom provide stability. Rapid, frequent changes in pH is detrimental--a stable pH above of below the ideal value is not. Fish can acclimate to a variety of waters, but sudden shifts can be fatal. With pH Up/Down, they cause a sudden shift to the pH, but it rarely remains at the new level for long without constant dosing. The constant addition of chemicals can result in other problems--algae being the most common. Increased TDS is another--and for soft water fish, this is not ideal.

Everyone does things differently, so there is not one 'true' path. What I strive for is stability and health for my fish. To me, this means understanding why I add a product to the tanks. If I can't understand the benefit (ie, salt), or see resulting problems (pH jumps), I won't use the product.

[Celura]

Oh ok. I guess I kinda took her advice to be the epitome of Betta info, since that's all she has and she's been on Animal Planet and such.

I suppose I'll do more research and see what else I can find out about it. Thanks again! :)

[jread]

Originally posted by Celura
Oh ok. I guess I kinda took her advice to be the epitome of Betta info, since that's all she has and she's been on Animal Planet and such.

I suppose I'll do more research and see what else I can find out about it. Thanks again! :)

Everyone does things differently. It's just a matter of wading through the B.S. and figuring out what works and what doesn't. One person may keep their ph at this, one may keep their ph at that. As long as it's in the "range", that's all that matters. Some people are all into the water hardness, etc.

I feed my fish, I do a 20% water change once per week, I add fertilizers for my live plants, I have 12 hour day/night cylce with the lights, I keep the temp at 78-80 degrees.... and that's about it. I put as many fish in there as I believe that my tank is suited for. I don't follow any "inches per gallon" rules. I have scavengers to clean up unused food since my gravel is for plants (laterite) and is not suited for gravel vacuuming.

- My water is clear

- My plants are healthy

- My fish are healthy, colorful and active

- I'm happy

[Aquarius0015]

Faith has a lot of clear advice on her site, but she doesn't go into great scientific depth explaining the reasons behind all of her actions. She also has a tendency to get side-tracked in her columns, lol.

I have salt in my community tank now to treat possible ich (or it may be velvet, still unclear). The 5.5g gets a little salt b/c my LFS keeps ghosts in BW and I've found that they survive the transition to my FW a little better and live longer with about 1 tbsp. of aquarium salt.

OG, I had always heard that aquarium salt was simply overpriced and repackaged rock salt. Sure looks like it to me. On the box I have it says "All Natural - Made from Evaporated Sea Water." Of course, it could be a blatant lie, but I think if there were additives, the company would try to call attention to them (eg aloe as slime coat aid in dechlor.)... I'm not questioning your choice not to use salt, but I was just curious about the additives.

In favor of aquarium salt, I hear it is quite handy for hatching BBS.

[Celura]

Thanks Jeremy. I'll keep that in mind.

[shewlett]

Many betta breeders, including those who have been in that business for many years, in the U.S. and Canada use aquarium salt as a disease and fungus preventative. As a hobbyist / pet owner I use aquarium salt in a slightly lower dose than recommended on the package. The use of aquarium salt for bettas is not as prevalent by southeast asia breeders, though some do use it. In southeast asia wild almond leaves are used by virtually all betta breeders to condition water, as does this hobbyist / pet owner.

I do not have any hard statistical evidence to back up the use of aquarium salt and wild almond leaves as additives to betta water but rather rely on the practices of those who have been breeding bettas for many years.

[Celura]

Originally posted by shewlett
Many betta breeders, including those who have been in that business for many years, in the U.S. and Canada use aquarium salt as a disease and fungus preventative. As a hobbyist / pet owner I use aquarium salt in a slightly lower dose than recommended on the package. The use of aquarium salt for bettas is not as prevalent by southeast asia breeders, though some do use it. In southeast asia wild almond leaves are used by virtually all betta breeders to condition water, as does this hobbyist / pet owner.

I do not have any hard statistical evidence to back up the use of aquarium salt and wild almond leaves as additives to betta water but rather rely on the practices of those who have been breeding bettas for many years.

Thank you, that's exactly why I bought it. She said she used it in part for disease control. With $200 for some of her Bettas, I figured the girl's gotta know what she's doing! :)

[OrionGirl]

Breeder tanks are very different setups than show tanks. Many are bare bottomed, and the volume of fish moving through them is greater than a show tank (hopefully). So, quarantine fish, make sure they are healthy before adding them, and there's no need for ongoing preventative treatment.

Fish disease are not mysterious entities that lurk in your tank. They are either the result of poor maintenance, or introduced--by you, the keeper dropping in unhealthy fish or using contaminated equipment on multiple tanks. This hobby is not mysticism, it is science. Salt will not prevent fin rot, it will not prevent ich, it will not prevent any host of infections. The levels of salt used by most people are too low to kill infectious parasites and bacteria...so what's the point?

The problem I have with aquarium salt is that is does not say what is in it. Check out marine salt--it says exactly what is in it. Why not do the same thing for "Aquarium Salt"?

[shewlett]

Faith, the owner of the bettatalk.com web site, is a member of the IBC (International Betta Congress) and no doubt is well aware of the prevailing wisdom on betta care. Jim Sonnier, betta breeder and Judging Board of the IBC has this to say on his web site (http://www.bettas-jimsonnier.com/waterchemistry.htm) under "Water Chemistry": "I also use a marine salt formulation to supply electrolytes and trace elements." He also uses Aquarisol as a disease preventive though I do not personally. I worry that the chelated copper in Aquarisol might lead to parasites that become somewhat copper resistant. Copper is very bad for invertabrates (e.g. snails) and in higher levels is bad for fish.

Sonnier states that the use of NovAqua will remove the copper in Aquarisol though the inventor of NovAqua says that this is not true (http://www.aquamaniacs.net/jfk.html):

"Q: Is NovAqua safe to use with all copper treatments? Does it matter if the copper is in a chelated form? <Editors note: Aquarisol & Coppersafe are treatments that contain chelated copper.>
JFK: NovAqua cannot remove chelated copper. On the other hand, chelated copper treatments are highly ineffective and are not only less toxic to the fishes but are also less toxic to the disease organisms against which they are targeted. NovAqua will react with free or citrated copper treatments."

You are going to find that betta breeding and health is a somewhat inexact science and sometimes there are diverging opinions on what works and what doesn't. You should do as much research as you can, including emailing breeders with specific questions, and then make your own final judgements after processing all the information you acquire. As an owner of a betta and also a plakat which are kept simply as pets my primary concern is health of the fish and longevity of the fish. Generally speaking I subscribe to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" way of doing things so that is why aquarium salt in conservative doses and wild almond leaves are the only additives I use. Wild almond leaves are present in the betta's native habitat in southeast asia, though of course the "wild" bettas bear little resemblence to the long finned show types and pet store bettas though they are the same species and can interbreed.

[Aquarius0015]

Assuming "aquarium salt" really does contain bad additives, is rock salt a cheaper and equally effective alternative?

[Celura]

I think the girl on Bettatalk actually calls it rock salt at one point. :confused:

[Grassguy]

Aside from the salt debate, I would say "Throw out the pH Up and pH Down. a) tried it once, didn't work. b) Just exactly what are you putin in the tank when you us ethat stuff. I only use what I find I need to use. Otherwise, I don't want anything else polluting my tanks.

Number 1 rule: know why your adding something before you put it into your tank. (I think that's actually in someone's sig....can't remember who's though...sorry:( )

[sumoschro]

heheh i think it's Cearbhaill
:)
I agree with grassguy, i wouldnt add salt to my aquariums unless there is a real need to do so, like treating for ich that has already attacked my fish.