75 gallon Planted Office Tank Journal [Archive]

geekpryde

03-23-2010, 2:49 PM

It has begun! My 75 gallon Planted Office Tank Project has started and I am going to piece this together over the coming months. This thread will serve as my Tank Journal, although it is going to take many months and thus, progress will be slow. I hope that in the end, someone viewing this thread will be able to go start to finish and see as I progress to a beautiful tank. Or maybe they can watch a train wreck as it happens? We’ll see….
I bought a very old used tank and stand from craigslist, and you can see more about that in this thread, where I struggled with buying a used tank and a used stand:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222503

So here is the equipment I currently plan on buying (subject to change):
Tank………....75 gallon glass tank (used)
Stand……..….Fiberboard Stand (used)
Filter………....EHEIM Classic External 2217 or maybe 2215
Substrate…..7 x 20 lbs bags of Eco Complete Black, with some small patch of cosmetic sand in front
Heater……….2 x 200 watt heaters, probably the brand by Eheim.
Lighting…….fixture from catalina aquarium, between 1.5 and 2 watts per gallon
CO2………....NONE
Food………...from Kens Fish Foods
Chemicals…Prime, NO plant food (I think eco complete will be enough?)
Fish……….....Mixed types of schooling Rainbows, probably by from Aquabid
Plants……….Mixed plant assortment of medium light plants. I wanted a heavily planted look, but without CO2. Specifics to come later.

Anway, probably not much to comment about now, but I am going to take ALOT of pics, probably a pic a day, until this tank has a mature planted look, so stay tuned.

geekpryde

03-23-2010, 4:47 PM

Here are some photos of the the supports I am adding that sit directly beneath the load bearing sides of the stand. These shots are with the stand flipped upside down, so these supports directly touch the ground.

One of the pics is a repeat from the thread I linked to in a previous post, the other two are new.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/pics%20110.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20001.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20002.JPG

Tomorrow I am going to silicone the cracks bits of the tanks plastic rim.

If there is nice wheather this week, I am going to bring the tank and stand outside and find a very level surface to fill the tank. I will let this set for the 10 hours or so I am at work, and then drain it. This will be the only real test of the tank + stand's ability to deal with 700 pounds, so we'll see what happens.

FSM

03-23-2010, 4:48 PM

geekpryde

03-23-2010, 5:30 PM

Eco complete doesn't provide many nutrients. Root tabs will help, but you should probably still dose fertilizer

A 2x54W fixture would work well. More is going to be a nightmare without CO2.

Eheim 2215 isn't going to provide much flow. I would use a larger canister, or a nice HOB filter like an aquaclear 110.

good idea adding the supports, btw, that stand looks very poorly designed. How stable is it?

Thanks for the suggestions. I figured someone was going to speak up if 1.5-2 watts per gallon was too much without CO2. I will lookinto 1 wpg instead. I thought that eco-complete had enough nutrients, but I will dose liquid ferts if that is the consensus here.

Regarding the eheim, what about the 2217, would that be enought alone? I could probably use the 2217 in conjunction with a power head or a small HOB.

The tank was very scary at first, but with the supports I have added, I am feeling alot better about it. I am only using liquid nails, but I think that will be fine. I am also adding one more brace tomorrow, and that will be it.

This stand is definately for a 75 gal, I just hope it wasnt some cheapo for like a snake tank or a lizard tank, maybe that was it was so flimsy looking to start with? (plus if you read the post I did in the newb forum, you will see that the prevous owned had modded it, in a bad way).

I am making a trip tonight or tomorrow to inspect a new stand, and see how much they differ in design for ideas in case my used stand needs additional work.

Thanks for the comments, and people, keep them coming. I am basically a newb, so point something out if I overlooked it.

geekpryde

03-24-2010, 10:11 AM

I am going to reseal the vertical silicone on the tank, using GE 100% silicone, so stop me now if this is the wrong stuff!

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20003.JPG

p.s. I was inspired by what i saw here:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2305192&postcount=10

geekpryde

03-24-2010, 1:49 PM

I took a 30 min lunch break and laid down the silicone. I noticed the more I worked it the worse it got, so next time it will be a couple of passes up and down with the little tool I made, and done. Also, most people wait to peal off the painters tape? I pulled it off a after 5 mins, and have a nice clean line.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20006.jpg

Here is the tool I fashioned out of a credit card (the fake kind that comes with junk mail). This worked great IMHO, as it was stiff enough, yet with some flex depending on how hard I pushed down. (are we allowed to say 'that's what she said' jokes?)

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20005.JPG

powerkit

03-24-2010, 1:51 PM

Nice Tool! (thats what she said) Nice seal too!

geekpryde

03-24-2010, 4:37 PM

This is the last piece I am gluing in; this is the top of the stand now. Tank and stand should be mostly dry tomorrow. I may also start purchasing some items soon.
http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20011.JPG

geekpryde

03-24-2010, 5:28 PM

My kids came to the office to help me work on the tank and stand (ages 4 and 7). I decided I was feeling ambitious, so we started getting ready to paint the back of the tank. Every time I read about someone painting the tank, they always use flat. I accidentally bought gloss, so I decided to try it. I went with a dark blue, which I think will look nicer than black, but we'll see.

I cleaned the back outside of the tank with windex and a razor.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20012.JPG

I then rolled it on a cart outside to paint real quick. I know this first coat looks like crap from the back, but I think it looks really nice from the frontside. I like how the opacity varies. I may not even do a second coat I like it so much.

I wonder why everyone always uses flat paint?

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20013.JPG

Here is a shot looking through, with the paint still very wet.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20014.JPG

slapnutz

03-24-2010, 11:32 PM

I don't think it matters if its flat or gloss. The glass makes it glossy either way.

geekpryde

03-25-2010, 1:35 PM

I went on a shopping spree today. This is what I bought, please feel free to comment. I have been lurking here for over a year, so I think these are quality components.

From Dr Fosters: http://www.drsfostersmith.com (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/)

7 x 20lbs Eco Complete (I saved over $50.00 with shipping vs. Big Als.)

From Ken’s: http://www.kensfish.com/ (http://www.kensfish.com/)

1 Net
1 Aquatic Gardener Medium Size
1 Cichlid Rock 3 Pack
1 Ehem Classic 2217 Filter
1 Kens Premium Earthworm Sticks1/2 lb
1 Kens Premium Super Color Pellets 1.0 mm 1/2 lb
1 Kens Premium Super Tropical Flake 1/2 lb
1 Kens Premium Vegetatable Sticks With Calcium 1/2 lb
1 Mag Float Medium for Glass
1 Prime 500 ml. Bottle
1 Python 100 Foot Clean & Fill Complete Kit
1 Seachem Flourish Potassium 500 ml Bottle
1 Seachem Flourish Trace 500 ml Bottle
2 x 200 Watt Jager Heater

From Catalina Aquarium: http://www.catalinaaquarium.com (http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/)

1 x 48 inch BLACK SOLAR T5 HO - 3 x 54W with SPLASHGUARD
1 x Legs for Solar
:bling:

geekpryde

03-25-2010, 5:02 PM

OKay, so I need to start thinking about plants. I have sent a request to freshwateraquariumplants.com for ideas and prices. I am looking at aquabid and also the classifieds here. Trouble is, I want to buy a large plant package, 150-250 plants probably for an almost instant planted tank AND I dont have co2. So I need to find a large plant lot for medium light (is 1.4 wpg medium light?) plants. If you guys have any suggestions of people or vendors let me know.

JAY973

03-25-2010, 10:21 PM

Very nice, can't wait to see it all come together.

dundadundun

03-25-2010, 10:28 PM

bored4

03-25-2010, 11:24 PM

:iagree:

geekpryde

03-26-2010, 10:36 AM

buy everything customdrum has before he sells it all...

then hit up mgamer and msjinkzd and do your best to wipe them out of stock too.

it's a goal to shoot for. i doubt you can hit it with just one tank, lol, but you'll have fun and get quality stock for good prices trying.

Thanks for the ideas.

After talking with some people, I have officially changed my mind about CO2. I am buying co2 goodies from Dr Fosters today. Without c02, I was really limiting my plant selection too much. :idea:

Stuff has started to ship, so I should have some pics on Tuesday/wednesday of all hardware.

geekpryde

03-26-2010, 1:09 PM

Stuff already started arriving, I can't beleive how fast Ken's shipped stuff out.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%201001.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%201002.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%201003.JPG

Should I be concerned that the same product looks different. One of the identical heaters is filled with a white powdery substance, and the other is not. Has anyone seen this before, or is anyone familiar with Jager heaters?

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%201005.JPG

geekpryde

03-26-2010, 1:53 PM

My canister filter came with a broken retaining clip, but I hear this is common so I am not going to make a big deal out of it. Just dumb that they have not changed that design weakness yet....

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20006.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20008.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%202009.JPG

Other than the retaining clip, it looks real nice!

This is the video I will be using to help me install the filter. I have never had a canister filter before and the instructions provided are HORRIBLE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyhVYjQd4TU

JimL

03-26-2010, 2:46 PM

Looks like Christmas came either early or late, or maybe it's the Easter Bunny that left all those goodies for you.

geekpryde

03-26-2010, 3:11 PM

Looks like Christmas came either early or late, or maybe it's the Easter Bunny that left all those goodies for you.

Yeah, it's fun getting stuff in the mail, regardless of what it is. Fish stuff is very nice! I thought I was going to have to buy this all real slow, used, as I had the money. But my bosses stepped up, and they want a fancy show tank, and they want it now! So with a budget, I was able to start buying stuff right away. Actually, they are wondering why the hell it is going to make me 3 weeks (which is fast if you asked me). I dont even want to try to explain what "cycling" means.... :duh:

My camera just ran out of batteries, so there is only one pic of me setting up the filter....

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/filter%202.jpg

That video I linked to earlier was a MAJOR help. I still have some questions, but it pointed me in the correct direction.

geekpryde

03-26-2010, 5:00 PM

I did my test fill of water (about 30 mins ago), so far no leaks, no breaking glass noise, so I think that's good.

Thank God for the internet. I googled how to prime my eheim 2217, and up comes a nice post here on AC. I followed he simple instructions, and had the filter primed in literally 20 seconds. Here are the instructions:

Once the filter is assembled with the media and NO water in it, place it under the tank, it must be below water level. Connect intake hose & place in tank. Then suck on pressure hose & while filter is filling with water, connect pressure hose to spray bar. Once filter has completely filled with water & air has been expelled, plug in the filter.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1313860&postcount=5

Filter bubbled for 15 seconds until filter was full of water, when it stopped I plugged in the filter, and it blew a few more bubbles and it now operating silently. Very nice!

How long do you think I need to leave tank full to test for leaks?

geekpryde

03-26-2010, 5:47 PM

Here are some phone pictures (camera battery dead) of me testing the filter, heater, and I wanted to see how well the python vac worked to both fill and drain. Draining with 100 feet of hose is VERY slow, I think I am going to do it old-school and use gravity to drain the water out of a loading dock...

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/2010-03-26%2018.18.11.jpg

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/2010-03-26%2018.18.47.jpg

I think I might be the only person checking this thread, LOL.

pokerboi

03-26-2010, 6:15 PM

Interesting journal so far Geekpryde! You have a lot of pictures, which is really helpful to us giving the suggestions. I don't know enough to give some helpful advice but I can tell you are putting a lot of thought into it so good luck!

geekpryde

03-26-2010, 7:53 PM

Draining the 75 gallon was not fun, especially with my wife and kids waiting in the car to pick me up from "playing" at work. I think it was a combination of 100 feet of hose and a SMALL diameter hose, but this thing took FOREVER to drain. I figure since it was only a little more than 2.5 times my 29 gallon, it should drain as fast as 2.5 x [time it takes to drain 29 gallon]. Wrong! I think if I ever have to 100% drain tank again, I will have either a much larger diameter hose or multiple vacs going at once.

Anyway, the tank is now officially in it's final resting place on the stand and waiting for eco-complete to come on Tuesday or so. I brought the canister filter home and hooked it up to the 29 gallon so I could get a jump start on the cycle with seeded media. We'll see it that ends up working or not... I think my fish are freaking out at the increased flow, and I aimed the return bar upwards, which will keep it out of their faces at least.

Probably wont have any pics until Monday, in the meantime I need to settle on a regulator and solenoid. I think the $80 one from Dr. Fosters looks good enough, along with reactor 500. I have already picked up silicone tubing, Red Sea indicator, and a dual timer for lights and CO2. I don't know if a bubble counter is really necessary, what do you guys think?

People in the office have two things to say when they see the tank (1)When is there going to be fish? (2) can we have piranhas? :swear:

I need a cool piece of driftwood, I think I can grab something local and soak it, but someone told me this was not a good idea.

Someone also told by Seachems Stability actually works . I have enough time to do a traditional cycle, so I don't plan on using it, but can this stuff be for real?

Rbishop

03-27-2010, 7:40 AM

Great journal so far! Though I would have re-sealed the entire interior...new silicone doesn't stick to old silicone.

geekpryde

03-28-2010, 3:45 PM

Great journal so far! Though I would have re-sealed the entire interior...new silicone doesn't stick to old silicone.

That's what I've read here. You're right, I didnt reseal that bottom pane of glass, but that seemed to be a larger project than I was willing to bite off. I guess I am taking a risk, but one that I think is small. The use of a used tank and used stand in of itself is a risk, I hope it turns out alright. I think it will.

Thanks for the kinds words about the journal, I really wanted to put up a lot of pics. I know that I have learned the most from other people's picture heavy journals as I have lurked on AC for more than a year.

geekpryde

03-28-2010, 3:47 PM

geekpryde

03-28-2010, 5:23 PM

Regarding the addition of the eco-complete, which is my next big step. I am going to follow this simple advice, from another thread about adding eco-complete to an already established tank.

...put in your Eco. Don't throw the Eco bags away. Instead, after you get the Eco in to the depth you want, lay the Eco bags on top of the substrate and pour your new water in. This will keep cloudiness to a minimum. Once the tank is almost full, take out the Eco bags and set up your filter(s), heater(s) and thermometer(s).

I also used the following calculator to determine how many pounds I needed to order.

http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculator.html

geekpryde

03-29-2010, 3:03 PM

More stuff arrived today, camera still dead, so no pic of the co2 cylinder I picked up today. It looks like it's in rough shape, but it is food grade (beverage grade as the dude said), which means they clean out the inside each time it's filled. 10lbs cylinder doesnt quite fit inside the cabinet standing up, so I will lay it down, which the gas man told me was fine.

Co2 silicone tubing showed up today, as well as the Red Sea indicator. At some point I assume I will convert to one of the pretty all glass drop checkers, but for now, this simple color coded one is a good first step for me.

According to tracking substrate wont be here until Wednesday. :-(

Here are stock photos of the reactor I am using and the drop checker:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/reactor500.jpg

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/CO2_Indicator.jpg

Here is the pressure regulator I bought. I know alot of people are very anal about their pressure regulators and solenoids, etc. but I think this is a good middle ground in terms of costs and value. If I'm nuts, then please chime in.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/co2.jpg

geekpryde

03-29-2010, 4:25 PM

Here is the rather beat up looking Co2 tank I was talking about. I can't believe I am actually sneaking this into the budget, but of course, it just means I cant have fish, LOL.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/co2%20tank.jpg

FISHSHROD

03-29-2010, 6:19 PM

Nice project , I have a 72 gal shop tank that I just recently set up with a new canister filter new lighting and c02.
Keep the pics coming .

67chevelle

03-29-2010, 6:37 PM

Everything is looking good.
As far as the Eco Complete goes,are you putting in 7 bags?

mes1234

03-29-2010, 6:38 PM

geekpryde

03-30-2010, 10:51 AM

Nice project , I have a 72 gal shop tank that I just recently set up with a new canister filter new lighting and c02.
Keep the pics coming .

I have a camera again, but not as nice as the Nikon d70 I was using. I now am taking photos with a broken D70, a camera phone, and a somewhat crappy point-and-shoot fugifilm. Nevertheless, more photos are a coming!

geekpryde

03-30-2010, 10:52 AM

Everything is looking good.
As far as the Eco Complete goes,are you putting in 7 bags?

yes, 7 bags coming in tomorrow via Fedex. According to the subtrate calc I used, this should be the correct amount. Of course, tomorrow I might find otherwise. I will be posting lots of pics of the substrate being added to the tank, so you guys will all know as soon as I do.

Does 7 sound like too much/too little?

geekpryde

03-30-2010, 10:58 AM

I like the journal. Your taking your time and making sure you do everything right the first time. I can't wait for your plants to go in. Keep updating everyday, I look at this journal everyday to see new pics.

Thanks! I feel like it's going pretty fast, but I guess lurking and reading for a year avoids a bunch of mistakes, so it appears as if I know what I am doing. :grinyes: I am not doing too much DIY, and a cash infusion by my company has also sped things up. I am sure there are things I would do differently when this is all done, but for now I am trying to be deliberate and planned about how this all comes togeather.

More pics coming soon.

geekpryde

03-30-2010, 11:08 AM

Here are pictures of my new Eheim 2217 hooked up to my kids 29 gallon (lightly planted) tank. I am seeding the filter. It has been on there for 3 days I think?

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/seed%20filter%20152.JPG

Man, this point and shoot really takes crappy photos. The tank actually looks really good, but it looks so muddy in these shots.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/seed%20filter%20%20150.JPG

A closeup of the 'double tap'.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/seed%20filter%20%20154.JPG

Spray bar is on FRONT glass, as there was not room in back due to the Whisper40, heaters, etc. Look at that water movement, I think the fish will be happy when it is gone, but maybe they like the cleaner water?

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/seed%20filter%20%20155.JPG

geekpryde

03-30-2010, 12:08 PM

Am I posting too many photos here? :screwy:

Safety first, I think everyone with a tank should add one of these little guys to the list of required equipment.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20105.JPG

Okay, this is a fun photo. Most people probably don’t deal with, "where the hell am I getting the water from" problems, but in an OFFICE, this is kind of an issue. I originally bought a 100 foot gravel vac, but it was ridiculously long and a pain to use (and slow). So I decided to cut a small hole in the wall, when no one was looking. What, are they going to fire their IT guy, I don’t think so! :raspberry:

This allowed me to cut 50+ feet off the hose, and have a permanent setup for the most part. I have a hook that I bought at home depot on each side of the wall, where I coil and hang the hose when not in use. I can fill and drain this way. Remember kids, I am a trained professional. I dont recommend you start cutting holes in your office walls.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20104.JPG

Red sea indicator. I dont hear too many people using this, but one of the vendors I chose highly recommended it.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20102.JPG

Test kit by API. This one i hear different things about, with one of my guys trashing it. I already owned it from the kids tanks, so might as well try it.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20101.JPG

Can't wait for gas!

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%20103.JPG

powerkit

03-30-2010, 12:42 PM

Someone also told by Seachems Stability actually works . I have enough time to do a traditional cycle, so I don't plan on using it, but can this stuff be for real?[/QUOTE]

I have used the stability, in my daughters 75, no adverse affects. We added the fish 2 days after using bio-spira, and used the stability for the 7 days it recommends and everything is still going fine here about 2 months later.

Squawkbert

03-30-2010, 1:01 PM

Once things grow in, the 2217 will probably come up a bit short with respect to water circulation. Just add a power head or two when that happens.

Looking good!

geekpryde

03-30-2010, 1:27 PM

Once things grow in, the 2217 will probably come up a bit short with respect to water circulation. Just add a power head or two when that happens.

Looking good!

Someone else also said something similiar earlier in thread, and I trust you all, So I just ordered a powerhead. :worthy:

I dont know anything about power heads, but I do know with Co2 I want to limit surface agitation. So I think just moving water around low in the tank, using something like this will work?

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/power%20head.jpg

The model I got it called Hydor Koralia Evolution 750.

geekpryde

03-30-2010, 2:15 PM

Wow, with that last post I am now a "Senior Member". That sounds a little scary, I hope people dont ask me for advice.

:rofl:

geekpryde

03-30-2010, 3:13 PM

Tomorrow night after the eco-complete is in, and the seeded filter is hooked up, I think I am going to keep the cycle going with cherry barbs. They are very tough fish, not flashy in anyway, and I think will be a nice substitute until the school of rainbows shows up in two or three weeks.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/Male_Cherry_Barb_700.jpg

geekpryde

03-30-2010, 7:38 PM

OKay, so I just talked to my plant guy, and he says that cherry barbs eat plants, so their out. I guess I will use zebra danios for the time being until I can get a large order of rainbows.

Also, I need to do a GH/KH test for him in the next few days, but the kit I ordered wont be in until too late, so now I need to find a way to test this fast. I dont think local stores carry those tests, but I will be calling tomorrow. I dont suppose there is some quick-and-dirty method?

Plants will be in on 4/8, and I was told to NOT drain the water down most of the way, which is what I was originally going to do, since I thought that is what I have seen from most tank journals here. But it makes sense to leave most water in, so plants are not drooping all over the place.

LOTS of pics tomorrow, so all your stragglers need to read all the posts and check out all the pics I have posted today so you are ready for tomorrow.

By the way, I know I could have saved money by buying plants from different people here, but I needed a quick and easy plant package that I could pay someone else to put togeather for me. I dont know much about plants, layouts, height issues (foreground, mid, back). I known I paid extra, but I think this will be a good decision for getting the tank up and running within two weeks. For additional plants, and future tanks, I will certainly look to our members for goods.

fishycat

03-31-2010, 3:05 AM

From what I've seen here and online, Cherry barbs won't eat plants as long as you provide alternate foods. They do like algae and may nibble anacharis.

geekpryde

03-31-2010, 9:40 AM

I'm going blind from reading about Fertilizers, so I finally pulled the trigger on ordering dry fert supplies, and I hope I dont have to readdress this issue any time soon. I think this is by far the most confusing aspect of planted tank. Too much info out there! :duh:

This is what I am doing:

Initially I am dosing liquid Flourish Trace, and probably Leaf Zone.

When the dry ferts arrive, I will be using a digital scale and the excel calc/spreadsheet called "PPS-Pro Solution Recipe" (download it free online) to measure out fertz for me. I just bought:

K2SO4 (Potassium sulfate)
KNO3 (Potassium nitrate)
KH2PO4 (Monopotassium phosphate)
MgSO4 (Magnesium sulfate)
CaSO4 (Calcium sulfate)
CSM+B Plantex (2% Mn, 7% Fe, 0.4% Zn, 0.1% Cu, 1.3% B, 0.06% Mo)

I need to play with how often I dose it, but probably 3 times a week?

geekpryde

03-31-2010, 9:42 AM

From what I've seen here and online, Cherry barbs won't eat plants as long as you provide alternate foods. They do like algae and may nibble anacharis.

Hmmm, who to believe? I currently have cherry barbs with Amazon swords, and have never seen them eat the leaves either. Is there anyone else that can confirm that cherry barbs are save with a wide variety of plants?

mellowvision

03-31-2010, 10:01 AM

cherry barbs absolutely do not eat plants. Your plant guy is just wrong. I've kept cherry barbs for the entire time I've been a fish keeper... they are one of the heartiest and most interesting fish I've kept. They pick at algae all day long, are friendly to smaller fish, and breed easily. Don't be persuaded away from cherry barbs. They are a great way to start a planted tank stock.

geekpryde

03-31-2010, 10:18 AM

geekpryde

03-31-2010, 1:57 PM

The eco-complete has arrived! :headbang2:

Here are some initial shots, I wont be able to load it into the tank for a few hours.

This is a really crappy photo, but here are the thermometers I got, which came in the boxes of eco-complete. I've got to say, ordering 150 pounds of eco-complete for only 9.00 shipping was very nice.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%205001.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%205004.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%205003.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%205002.JPG

Here is a shot sitting in my chair, looking at the tank. You can see how close I am to the tank, and I get a nice view of the short and long sides of the tank.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%205006.JPG

This is me trying to get the last drops out of the tank from the test fill. How do you guys get the last 1/2 inch of water out when you break down a tank?

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/tank%20pics%205007.JPG

geekpryde

03-31-2010, 3:07 PM

I think I am going to NOT use the clarifier that came with eco complete. I have ZERO cloudiness, does that mean I am lucky, or did something wrong, LOL. I read a few other threads regarding the clarifier, and it seems that very few people use it. Any one want to chime in about this?

fishycat

03-31-2010, 3:17 PM

Towels?

Why do you need to drain it completely, if you're gonna add substrate, etc?

(going with cherry barbs?? :D)

Ozymandias

03-31-2010, 3:25 PM

ya if you are going to be adding substrate no big deal about water, but for breaking down tank i sort of get as much water out as possible the gravel then movie the tank out side and dump it not really all that easily for bigger tanks so towels would work better. not sure if that packets thay have with the eco-complete do anything really but it's probably not a pig deal.

geekpryde

03-31-2010, 3:38 PM

This is how I got every last drop of water out before adding eco-complete. The reason I wanted this water out, it was kinda nasty. There was some saw dust, dirt, maybe even some very fine paint chips? I could feel it on bottom of tank, but couldn't really see it. I rubbed the tank with my hand, loosened it up, and then used that lid there to scoop water into the bucket. It actually went pretty fast, and I took about 2.5 gallons out of this nasty water.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0001.JPG

Here are pictures from adding the eco-complete and filling up the tank.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0002.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0003.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0005.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0009.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0011.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0012.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0014.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0015.JPG

CatsMeowww

03-31-2010, 4:03 PM

Lookin good...can't wait to see it filled up!

standardbyker63

03-31-2010, 4:10 PM

Looking good so far!

I recently re-'scaped my tank and used eco complete. I didn't use the clarifier packets either. You shouldn't need them since you're filling the tank with the python. I refill my tank with a five gallon bucket, which tends to stir everything up a lot more.

Can't wait to see more! :popcorn:

fishycat

03-31-2010, 4:26 PM

Well, I just started a small tank with AS:Amazonia I and there was a note about cloudiness especially if the flow hit the substrate. There was massive cloudiness but that resolved itself within a couple days - not sure if it was from the AS or bacterial bloom.

geekpryde

03-31-2010, 6:09 PM

going with cherry barbs??

Yes, just bought them. 4 males, 4 females. I hooked up the seeded eheim 2217, brought a piece of driftwood from my kids tanks, and hopefully with the seeded media, eco-complete goo, driftwood, and fish producing waste, this tank will be a good way through its cycle.

Tank is very dark now that it's filled, but lights won’t be in until Tuesday.

Tomorrow I will test water parameters, and take some more pics.

I have decided that my original assessment of the 2217 was little too generous on the "totally silent" comment. It is very quiet, but not silent. Certainly within the cabinet, and with the office noise, I will never hear the thing running. But it's not literally silent. Noise is also increased if there are pockets of air trapped inside, and I haven’t totally settled on the best method. It almost seems that totally emptying the 2217 of water, then hooking it up to inflow, opening outflow and letting water shoot out for a second before hooking it up to the spray bar, works best. I have not had luck getting rid of air pockets when I try priming with a mostly full canister filter.

Nothing too much for tomorrow, maybe some pics of the fish in a rather bare and dark tank. Next week is going to be busy though, stay tuned.

geekpryde

03-31-2010, 6:18 PM

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0022.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0020.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0019.JPG

fish-n-chips

03-31-2010, 6:29 PM

Looking good, can't wait to see it complete.:grinyes:

mes1234

03-31-2010, 7:48 PM

dude, I want to see plants!!!! Hurry!! lol looks great so far.

geekpryde

04-01-2010, 11:02 AM

I am a little bored today regarding the tank, I have nothing new to take pics of, and nothing is coming in fedex/ups until Monday.

I do need to test water parameters today, so I guess I can post that, but that's no fun for all my adoring fans here!

The fish look happy, 75G is a huge space for 7 cherry barbs and 1 mystery fish (I got bait-and-switched on 1 of the barbs, LOL). Maybe not big compared to nature, but certainly bigger than the 40gallon breeder they came out of with 50+ more cherry barbs.

There is a little bit of an oily slick on the top of the water, but with the eheim there is almost NO surface water movement, so I guess maybe it's okay, and I just never noticed before with tanks that have HOB (and thius alot of surface water movement)?

Dont get too freaked out, the oilyness is barely there, but I can see it at the right angle, in the right light.

geekpryde

04-01-2010, 3:22 PM

According to API, my tank is:

PH: 7.2-7.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0

Hmm, that is either really good or really bad, LOL.

Do you think having only 8 little fish, and the canister fitler seeded from my other (overstocked) tank, my cycle could be over?

standardbyker63

04-01-2010, 3:31 PM

How long has the tank been running and how long has the cannister been connected to your new tank? Zero ammonia and nitrite is a good thing, indicating that the cycle is complete, unless it hasn't even started. Typically you should see some nitrates though, so I'm not too sure. Do you have plants in the tank? They may have already absorbed all the nitrates available.

standardbyker63

04-01-2010, 3:34 PM

geekpryde

04-02-2010, 8:37 AM

Derrr, I should have taken the time to look back at previous posts. So this tank has only been set up for a day, correct? Most likely there hasn't been enough time for waste to break down and decompose to create ammonia and start the cycle, so you may not see any readings for a few days, but then again I've never started a tank with seeded media. Once you start getting nitrates you'll know that the cycle has gone full swing.

I am going to test again today. I did have the filter on for about 4 days, and I would consider my kids tank overstocked, so I am hoping that the canister filter was full of those wonderful beneficial bacteria, and that is the reason for all the zero readings. We'll see. :uhoh:

geekpryde

04-02-2010, 9:43 AM

Light will be here today, so i will have a FTS (full tank shot). Granted, the tank is practically empty, so dont expect much.

Also, I was talking with a local high end marine store (no freshwater), and the nice woman who owns the store said I could order specialty freshwater fish through her as part of her normal weekly order. This way I can deal with someone local, and NOT pay shipping. Very cool. I am going to get here a hit-list of rainbow species I want, and then we'll check prices and availability. If that falls through, I got some good quotes through aquabid. It will still be weeks before I get any "real" fish in this tank IMHO.

Squawkbert

04-02-2010, 9:49 AM

Yes, that powerhead will do fine and has some advantages over others...

I'd wait until you have enough plant mass that the 2217 isn't circulating the water well, then put the PH in an inconspicuous spot where it can augment water flow. You will also want it to be located in a position where it won't be trying to block itself by sucking in leaves etc.

The advantages are 1) magnetic mount (it looked like that was the one you got) - so when it does clog, you can slide it up to the surface to clear it. 2) decent surface area on the input side (more conventional power heads use a tube/basket - more easily clogged).

Natalie_ava

04-02-2010, 10:08 AM

This is all very exciting. Please keep us updated. I can't wait to see the finished product. :)

odinthejd

04-02-2010, 10:18 AM

thats sweet any updates?

geekpryde

04-02-2010, 11:37 AM

Here come the Light Pics:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0004keep.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0005keep.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0016keep.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0006keep.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0017keep.JPG

geekpryde

04-02-2010, 11:48 AM

More lighting pics:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0014keep.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0009keep.JPG

Installing the Legs was way harder than it should have been. No, I am not kidding. :-(

Unless I overlooked them, there was no printed material shipped with lights, including instructions. I went to the website, and luckily, I quickly found online detailed instructions with pictures, which was very nice. Unfortunately, they did not help me a great deal, other than to get the general idea of how the legs work. Before seeing the pictures, I really had no idea.

It still took me about 1/2 hour to install legs, and I'm still not 100% sure I actually installed them correctly. Luckily, I should not have to do that again.

Now, keep in mind that I bought these lights BEFORE I decided to do Co2, and at 2 watts-per-gallon, they would have been great without Co2. My kids tank only has 1/2 a watt-per-gallon, and plants grow. However, now that I am doing co2, this is low light, at least according to online sources. We'll see.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0018keep.JPG

I almost threw away the splash guard before I realized what it was. It looked like a peice of cardboard in the box, part of the shipping materials. I guarantee people throw this away all the time.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF00212keep.JPG

Installing....

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0023keep.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0025keep.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0024keep.JPG

geekpryde

04-02-2010, 12:02 PM

Now guys, keep in mind, I am using a crappy camera now, so this is washed out, etc, etc.

Also, I think this is the first shot you can kinda see me in, scarry! :grinyes: You may need to click it to make it bigger, I made this image larger than most of the other files.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/FTS_w_lights.jpg

fish-n-chips

04-02-2010, 1:58 PM

Crappy camera or not it's still looking good. I look forward to seeing this tank through.

geekpryde

04-02-2010, 2:25 PM

Crappy camera or not it's still looking good. I look forward to seeing this tank through.

Thanks! I'm going to keep posting till this tank and good and mature, even then I probably will post a FTS once a month so I can remember how things change long term. I'll share them here so people can check if they are interested.

fishycat

04-02-2010, 2:41 PM

Nice! I feel kinda bad the fish don't have plants, tho I know this is temporary! Looking forward to the next update!

WeedCali

04-02-2010, 3:15 PM

so waht are you going to stock it with?

sorry if i missed that.

geekpryde

04-02-2010, 3:43 PM

so waht are you going to stock it with?

sorry if i missed that.

My original plan is to stock with 4 types of Rainbows. This is expensive, as each fish could run $8-10 each, BUT they meet most of my needs/wants. They school, they are colorful, they are friendly, and they do well in planted tanks. This is the most likely choice.

Funny you should ask that question though, as I was just now having slight cold feet. I am open to ideas. I really like the concept of a large group of schooling fish, but most of my choices seem BORING, imho.

I like tiger barbs when they are young, but I dont know about them in planted tanks, and for some bizarre reason, I dont like how they look when the get larger. Odd.

:help2:

I like this fish, but I know nothing about it, or if I can even order it "Boehlkea fredcochui".

CatsMeowww

04-02-2010, 5:59 PM

I just got some rummynose tetras (I had a big fiasco with the first group, as they were much more sensitive to temp. than I thought...)

They school a lot closer together than danios, and look very cool in a large group. I have heard neons do this as well. Both would be just fine with a planted tank. They would actually stand out against the plants.

CatsMeowww

04-02-2010, 6:00 PM

Oh, great start, btw. I like the dark substrate.

WeedCali

04-03-2010, 2:06 AM

I think 3 or 4 Roseline Sharks would be cool :)

geekpryde

04-03-2010, 9:17 AM

Yesterday afternoon (Friday 04/02/10), I checked Ammonia again, still 0, so I really think the seed worked well as an almost instant cycle. The filter was removed from my kid’s well stocked tank and hooked up to new tank, and fish introduced, within 45 mins. I hear that the bacteria may survive without fish for a day or two, but I don’t know how accurate that info it. I didn't want to risk it and certainly 45 mins is a fast switch out, so I think anything that had colonized the filter certainly survived, plus the fish waste has managed to keep it alive.

I had to cull one of the cherry barbs on Friday, one that would not have made it until Monday I think. Others are very active, playful, and seem to really enjoy the 75 gallon, even though it is amazing bare.

I just picked up a few more cherry barbs, and I'm acclimating them now.

geekpryde

04-03-2010, 9:22 AM

Here are some links I wanted to share, most of which you probably are already aware of, but if you're not, I have found them useful, and maybe you will to.

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

http://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/index.htm

geekpryde

04-03-2010, 11:23 AM

I think 3 or 4 Roseline Sharks would be cool :)

I always had the impression that I should avoid anyting with the word "shark" in it, but I googled "Roseline Sharks" at your suggestion. They are very pretty indeed! I think they get a little big, 4.5", so I could not have too many of them? How many do you think in 75G?

I have a feeling I am probably going to end up with just a tank of cherry barbs, LOL. I'll have to see how nice they look against a planted (green) backdrop.

geekpryde

04-04-2010, 4:47 PM

Checked ammonia yesturday and took a quick trip to office today, ammonia zero both days. Have about 13 cherry barbs in there, and I am adding two more tonight. The two are coming from my kids tank, and they are the original fish from the cycle of that tank over a 16 months ago. I think they will be happier as part of a large school, and my kids like the idea of making room for a new fish.

Ozymandias

04-04-2010, 5:26 PM

must say i have to agree and i think you should add some Roselines i think in a 75 you could do 4 of them but not completely sure. if you do go with them get smaller ones because thay tend to be cheaper compared to adults (i've seen them for $40 each af full grown).

duggysauce

04-04-2010, 5:32 PM

congo tetras are also a thought...

mattskims

04-04-2010, 6:02 PM

Something to keep in mind is that roselines prefer a bit cooler temperatures so it might be worth accounting for that depending on what other livestock you choose. Also, 4 would be the minimum as they are a schooling fish.

geekpryde

04-05-2010, 9:15 AM

Bunch of equipment coming in today, hopefully I will have photos. Cherry barbs are looking very happy.

I have a question regarding a thin film of oil (maybe fish oil used in the fish foods)? I have this thin film, which has not broken up or broken down since I filled the water. Since this is very little surface water agitation, I think it forms. It will never make it into the filter, since it floats on the surface of the water. The question is, is this film common on planted tanks, where surface agitation is limited due to co2?

I am also under the impressions that when the co2 and lights are off at night, it is okey to turn on some form of aggitation? I plan on using a power head aimed upwards which would stir around the surface level water, and hopefully make this film less visible. Please let me know your thoughts on this matter.

geekpryde

04-05-2010, 10:20 AM

Cherry barbs are fast little fish, I am having a hard time getting a close up in focus. Here are my bad attempts:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/cherry_barb_close1.jpg

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/cherry_barb_close2.jpg

geekpryde

04-05-2010, 11:37 AM

One more fish shot, and a close up of the driftwood before I show what came fedex today.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2329.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2327.JPG

geekpryde

04-05-2010, 11:45 AM

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2330.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2331.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2332.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2337.JPG

I bought a power head that I think is just too big. This thing is freaking huge!

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2333.JPG

Reactor:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2335.JPG

Next up, co2 regulator shots....

geekpryde

04-05-2010, 11:47 AM

I am about to connect the regulator to the 10lbs of co2 I purchased last week. Since I have never done this, I am following instructions found on this website:

http://www.rexgrigg.com/regset.html

Co2 regulator detail shots.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2336.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2338.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2340.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2341.JPG

geekpryde

04-05-2010, 2:20 PM

I think I have co2 setup correctly, and if I crank it up, I am definately getting something out of the reactor, but I have no idead how MUCH co2 I am putting into the water. I have the indicator in the tank, but I think there is a 10 min delay between when the co2 level is read accurately by the color of the indicator solution. I did not initially purchase a bubble counter, but I think that I need to get one ASAP so I dont go crazy wondering if the reactor 500 is mixing co2 into the water or not.

Also, I added the hydor koralia 750 to the tank, and the thing is just amazingly huge. Do you think I bought too large a model? The flow is not insane, but I dont know how much current is good or bad for my cherry barbs.

Please chime in people!

geekpryde

04-05-2010, 2:38 PM

Here are pictures from the installation of the co2 regulator, reactor, indicator, and check valve.

This is the washer that came with my regulator. I have no idea if this looks normal, it was very hard white plastic.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2343.JPG

Installed where I think it should go.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2342.JPG

I like it tight! :evil_lol:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2344.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2347.JPG

I really dont know how to do this, but much like legos, all the peices are going togeather.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2348.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2349.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2351.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2350.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2352.JPG

I have posted ALOT of photos today, you may want to go back a few pages and review. More are going to be coming. :nutkick:

geekpryde

04-05-2010, 3:11 PM

My GH is 80 mg/L (PPM). According to my instructions, this is "slightly hard"
My KH is 50 mg/L (PPM). According to my instructions, this is "normally associated with a low pH"

Hmm...what does it all mean?

So, I think I have a low buffer capacity. I may need to look into buffing this water with calcium carbonate.... :irked:

nguyendetecting

04-05-2010, 3:18 PM

coming along nicely! how do you the reactor? I've been looking for one on ebay the past few days. Seems to come in kits only. You could disconnect the reactor and tune in your bubbles per minute. Then stick it back on the reactor or you can always make ur own counter.

Quartermain

04-05-2010, 4:03 PM

Looks like it's coming together. I can't wait to see plants and fish!

how MUCH co2 I am putting into the water.

If you don't have a bubble counter just unplug the line from the reactor, have someone hold it in the tank, and adjust your needle valve to 3 - 4 bubbles per second. No need to ever adjust it again since you have the pH monitor and solenoid.

Personally I'm not a fan of the Red Sea 500 reactor. I'm sure it'll work out for you, but I found it to be underpowered, kind of difficult to clean, and as a bonus defect it starts to "rattle" as gas builds up inside the chamber making an extremely loud buzzing sound. I ditched mine for an Aqua Medic spiral reactor and separate powerhead.

geekpryde

04-05-2010, 4:13 PM

Looks like it's coming together. I can't wait to see plants and fish!

If you don't have a bubble counter just unplug the line from the reactor, have someone hold it in the tank, and adjust your needle valve to 3 - 4 bubbles per second. No need to ever adjust it again since you have the pH monitor and solenoid.

Personally I'm not a fan of the Red Sea 500 reactor. I'm sure it'll work out for you, but I found it to be underpowered, kind of difficult to clean, and as a bonus defect it starts to "rattle" as gas builds up inside the chamber making an extremely loud buzzing sound. I ditched mine for an Aqua Medic spiral reactor and separate powerhead.

Good to know. I will also ditch it if it does not work out. I am checking bubbles per your method now.

Also, I actually dont have a pH monitor, I do have indicator solution, is that what you meant?

geekpryde

04-05-2010, 4:39 PM

I received a shipment of dry fertz today from Green Leaf. I will post pictures tomorrow. I Also did as Quartermain suggested, and I now have what I think is the correct bubble rate, plus the reactor 500 seems to be happier now as well. I am waiting for indicator solution to tell me I have done this correct/incorrect. I dont want to come in tomorrow and have a bunch of dead fish.

fishycat

04-05-2010, 5:39 PM

Re: agitating surface water at night... won't degassing cause a swing in your ph, which would stress your fish? I'm not 100% sure, but when I was researching co2, I read a bunch of stuff against aeration at night.

I'm just a diy co2 girl who uses a hob, so perhaps others with more experience can chime in.

Btw, nice fish! I like cherry barbs, but don't have room for them.

geekpryde

04-06-2010, 9:19 AM

Added 2 Cherry barbs from my Kids home tank, as I previously mentioned. They seems to be doing okay so far. I also added a single Amazon Sword from my 29g, as I was about to have to toss it since it was getting to big, and I have plenty of runners with smaller swords growing.

I now have (I think) 15 cherry barbs in this school. More females than males. I have co2 and lights on, but my Indicator Solution is refusing to change color. I dont know what I am doing wrong....

geekpryde

04-06-2010, 1:17 PM

Looks like after 4 hours, the color went from a blue to almost white, and now to green-ish. I would not say it's green, so I think there needs to be more co2, but at least it is changing color (I think). No joke, I have something called a "Deutan color vision deficiency", which means I have slight green color blindness, LOL.

BEFORE:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2350_small.jpg

AFTER:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2360.JPG

geekpryde

04-06-2010, 1:21 PM

Here are the dry fertz, doesnt really make interesting photography, but if you have never seen what dry fertz look like, you might be curious. I know I didnt have any clue about dry fertz until these showed up....

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2357.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2355.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2353.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2358.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2356.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2354.JPG

And here is a shot of a Sword I moved here, but it will be gone in a week.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2361.JPG

peace.

fishycat

04-06-2010, 2:17 PM

Nice sword plant! The cherries seem to like it, too. :)

geekpryde

04-06-2010, 4:07 PM

Nice sword plant! The cherries seem to like it, too. :)

I'm starting to think you and I are the only ones that read this thread. :p:

geekpryde

04-06-2010, 4:17 PM

I mixed up some dry fertz today, that was fun and a little scarry. These photos make it look like I'm commiting a felony. I swear officer, I am only make plant food!

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2362.JPG

See the white powder?

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2363.JPG

After mixing per PPS-PRO method. I had to convert grams to ounces, since my digital scale only has ounces, DOH!

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2364.JPG

FTS, but with a MACRO lens, so alot is out of focus. I wont have a good zoom lens for a long time, my kid broke it last week...

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2365.JPG

mes1234

04-06-2010, 4:36 PM

Hey geek, is that powerhead of yours going to be too much for the plants? Your plants may not like the huge current.

geekpryde

04-06-2010, 4:39 PM

Found another great link today:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/39491-newbie-guide-pps-pro.html

I am going to dose 7.5ml of my liquid solution each day, but NOT until the plants arrive late next week.

I purchased Calcium Sulfate, but PPS-Pro formula doesnt call for it, so I dont knwo what I am supposed to use it for. Any ideas?

geekpryde

04-06-2010, 4:42 PM

Hey geek, is that powerhead of yours going to be too much for the plants? Your plants may not like the huge current.

yeah, it is WAY bigger than I intended. Probably replace with a smaller one, or just take it out and not replace it.

I am getting conflicting advice about agitation / aeration at night. Also, some say to keep co2 on all day/night. If I dont need nighttime agitation, then I may not need it...

thrak76

04-06-2010, 5:04 PM

I am getting conflicting advice about agitation / aeration at night. Also, some say to keep co2 on all day/night. If I dont need nighttime agitation, then I may not need it...

It appears that you have a solenoid with your regulator, right? I use a timer in conjunction with the solenoid to turn on my CO2 around a half-hour before the lights kick on, and then off when the lights go out. While dark, the plants don't really take up CO2, but rather they expel oxygen. If you then agitate the surface, and out-gas your CO2, you will have a harder time keeping your CO2 saturation, and also your pH stable.

geekpryde

04-06-2010, 5:10 PM

So I just tested my PH, after 8 hours of co2 today. I thought I would test, since this is the first time I ran co2 all day. Looks like it lowered pH from 7.6 to 7.2, maybe 7.0.

Man, I hope this swing doesnt hurt the barbs! They actually prefer 6.0 -7.0 ph from my understanding, this lower ph will be good.

geekpryde

04-06-2010, 5:14 PM

If you then agitate the surface, and out-gas your CO2, you will have a harder time keeping your CO2 saturation, and also your pH stable.

I planned to use a timer for lights and co2, exactly as you suggest. Of course, the more I read, the less I know, LOL.

Okay, so if I DONT want to do surface agitation, what about a powerful powerhead low in the tank for increased current at night, will this cause too much out-gas? The issue is that people tell me the eheim 2217 will not be enough movement on a 75g heavy planted tank. So then I purchased a too-big powerhead, which then causes out-gas issues. I am not sure which is more important. I do know that without the powerhead, my water surface appears to be practically stagnant!

thrak76

04-06-2010, 5:24 PM

Before you get your tank full of plants, it will probably be hard to judge if you have enough circulation. Generally, you want to see all of your plants move a bit in the current. If you only have a plant or two... then you can't tell. I'm sure those plants are swaying.
If you are worried about no movement at all at the surface, and perhaps some protein build-up on the surface, then maybe just pointing your spraybar towards the surface a little will do the trick. Just enough to cause some small ripples. Out-gassing from this will be very minimal.
With proper co2 dispersion, the protein build-up on the surface should be practically nothing. Your plants will be able to take up the excess nutrients. I think you should re-evaluate your circulation once you've fully planted your tank.

fishycat

04-06-2010, 5:25 PM

I'm starting to think you and I are the only ones that read this thread. :p:

Well... I am on this forum wayyy too much, when I should be working. But I really like your tank. I am living vicariously thru your 75g. :D

fishycat

04-06-2010, 5:32 PM

geekpryde

04-06-2010, 8:23 PM

Okay, just talked with my Plant Guy again, (Don), many of you know him. Looks like I am all set to get plants on the 15th this month.

I may or may not boost my GH. I think dosing my normal fert daily is going to boost GH by itself, since it contains most of the ingredients of a GH booster. Only thing missing from the fertz I mixed today is Calcium Sulfate, and I will read tomorrow about just dosing that by itself dry into the tank couple times a week. Any GH booster i can buy or make is going to duplicate alot of the ingredients in my PPS-PRO mixture.

I am buying a nicer drop checker, a bubble counter, 4dkh solution, and another 1000ml bootle from green leaf tomorrow. Other than fish, this should be the last items I need for a long time. (yeah right....)

mes1234

04-06-2010, 8:44 PM

Everything sounds great geek. I wish I had your budget lol. I cannot afford a high light fixture or co2 :(. But your tank looks great.

JimL

04-06-2010, 10:05 PM

I planned to use a timer for lights and co2, exactly as you suggest. Of course, the more I read, the less I know, LOL.

Welcome to the world of planted tanks. lol :wall:

geekpryde

04-07-2010, 10:01 AM

Welcome to the world of planted tanks. lol :wall:

Yup!

My reactor 500 was working fine yesturday, today it seems to just be spitting co2 out a bubbles that float to the top. There is always something (wrong), isnt there!

:duh:

standardbyker63

04-07-2010, 11:02 AM

plantbrain

04-07-2010, 11:10 AM

Yup!

My reactor 500 was working fine yesturday, today it seems to just be spitting co2 out a bubbles that float to the top. There is always something (wrong), isnt there!

:duh:

You should have gotten the AM100, this(500) piece of junk sticks.
CO2, light are far more critical than anything to do with nutrients FYI.

See here:
http://www.tropica.com/article.asp?type=aquaristic&id=142

This will help you achieve a management goal much better, with less effort, and better results. I also think a good nutrient rich sediment is also wise for anyone, that over thinks dosing a bit more than they really should or need to.

Eg ADA aqua soil or a DIY mix if you are cheaper.
This adds a back up in case you do not dose right, forget to dose or otherwise neglect things, which is to say, "human".

Lower light also drives things slow, so there's more wiggle room for things like dosing and particularly for CO2. I never add CO2 at night, bad for fish.

CO2 will kill your fish faster than any other thing you add or can use on a planted tank, give it respect. Nutrients? Never seen anyone kill their fish using KNO3 to date(2 + decades).

Be careful not to assume nutrients are all important, light CO2 and nutrients together, that's the focus, and where all growth starts? With light, so that's what drives all growth and the rates that cause CO2 demand and then nutrient demand.

Light is also far more stable than either of the other two.
Pack the tank full of plants from day 1.
Do not wait.

Regards,
Tom Barr

geekpryde

04-07-2010, 1:55 PM

You should have gotten the AM100, this (500) piece of junk sticks.

I know I have gained some sort of status/infamy when I get the Great Mr Barr to respond to one of my threads! :D

In regards to the "AM100", I am not sure what that product is, but my best guess would be the "Aqua Medic CO2 Reactor 100"? If something that simple will work better, I will certainly replace the Red Sea Reactor 500.

I also think a good nutrient rich sediment is also wise for anyone that over thinks dosing a bit more than they really should or need to...This adds a backup in case you do not dose right, forget to dose or otherwise neglect things, which is to say, "human".

If I understand you correctly, having a good substrate cuts down on the need to be perfect on dosing fertz. I believe I have chosen suitable sediment, Eco-Complete, but correct me if I am mistaken. I think I also have the dosing of dry fertz in a happy place (in terms of my understanding of them). I am simply going to follow the PPS-Pro recipe, which I have already weighed and mixed, and this should last me about 130 days (I mixed 1000ml). This way I can keep it nice and simple, which I believe you are saying simplicity is important to dosing.

Lower light also drives things slow, so there's more wiggle room for things like dosing and particularly for CO2.

I believe I am in luck here, as I only have 2.2 wpg, which people consider low-medium light. I like more wiggle room! :thumbsup:

I never add CO2 at night, bad for fish. CO2 will kill your fish faster than any other thing you add or can use on a planted tank, give it respect.

Here is where things get a little crazy for me (and other people I assume). 1/2 the people I respect and trust about planted tanks say DONT do co2 at night, and the other half of the people I trust and respect say it's OKAY to run co2 24/7. Hmm, who to believe? I guess I need to try it for myself.

Be careful not to assume nutrients are all important, light CO2 and nutrients together, that's the focus, and where all growth starts? With light, so that's what drives all growth and the rates that cause CO2 demand and then nutrient demand.

I will read the link you posted, thanks for the info.

Pack the tank full of plants from day 1. Do not wait.

I wish I could have had plants from day1, but I really have no idea when I would have this all pulled together, and ordering from at least four vendors, scattered across the country made things arrive at different times, etc. I am also learning a lot as I go, and for the most part I think I am going pretty well. I guess I could have waited until everything was here to even start, but I wanted to be able to take my time. Now that everything is here, running, except for plants, there will be no more delay. I have already paid for a large shipment of plants, and I am eager to get them into the tank.

I am going to leave co2 off until I get more plants in this tank, as there is currently only one large Amazon Sword, which will be tossed once my “real” plants arrive.

I wanted to thank you (and everyone who posts in my thread) for taking the time to write a detailed response, as this is how all us newbs learn the trade.

-The Geek

geekpryde

04-07-2010, 2:00 PM

Are you dosing your ferts using the EI method? Also, how do you like the fertilizer dispenser you purchased? I just recently started dosing with dry ferts and the dispenser looks like a nifty item to have around, as long as I can convert from teaspoons to ounces :)

I assume you mean this? yes, easy to use, it costs $5.00, and for my tank (75g), one mixture will last 130 days. I am not using EI yet, I am using PPS-PRO, which is another simple dry fertilizer recipe. I may switch to EI sooner than later, depending on how Mr. Barr reacts to PPS-PRO :nono:. I think he probably approves of this simple method as well.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2364.JPG

plantbrain

04-07-2010, 5:57 PM

AM 1000, not 100(sorry), the 1000 is much better for adding CO2 to a tank this size, the 500 is more for maybe 20-40 Gal tank max. Add as much flow as you got to the CO2 and mixing it good in the tank.

This will help a great deal.

If I understand you correctly, having a good substrate cuts down on the need to be perfect on dosing fertz. I believe I have chosen suitable sediment, Eco-Complete, but correct me if I am mistaken.

Well, EC has nothing to offer really, ADA As or the worm castings, or DIY soil methods do. For many, it's too late once they are at this stage.
But it can really help and reduce any issues and makes things like weekends, vacations, general neglect much easier and simple to handle.

This stuff will happen also.

Fertz or being perfect with it is not an issue UNLESS you are trying to add limiting amounts. Slightly limiting is okay, strongly limiting is bad.

You also fail you get 100% efficacy from your CO2 and your lighting if limit a nutrient/s. See Tropica's explanation using light and CO2:
http://www.tropica.com/article.asp?type=aquaristic&id=142
CO2 may be treated like any nutrient that's limiting.

As far as light and any limitation or stress:
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u312/plantbrain/pp600239f1.jpg

You cannot talk about nutrients or test them if you do not know what the light and CO2 are doing. EI addressed this a decade + ago very well, since I used MH's at 4 W/gal as an upper bound for PAR, and cranked the CO2 up to 30-40ppm ranges.

If you limit PO4, which PPS does do..........you end up with hard to remove GSA on glass and Anubias. I'd modify it and add more PO4.

PMDD is what PPS pro is really, with a little PO4 added, but not enough.
See here, it pre dates PPS pro by well over 8 years and was widely used:
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/pmdd-tim.html

Hardly anything new. Toss a little PO4 in there and it's almost verbatim......
Nor was EI, see at the bottom, there's the infinite series dilutions as well.

My thing was to make it simpler than using scales etc........or test kits.
PPS pro just took that idea and added water changes. It's not simpler or better, it's too lean to make nutrients independent in many tanks.
PMDD+PO4 is a more accurate label. I suggest a richer version if folks dose daily works better than say 2-3x a week with dry powders:
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/PMDD.htm

Folks in the UK like it.
I have another version up on my site as well.

I also use non CO2, Excel and other methods, as well as support lower light + sediments ferts etc. If you are concerned about waste, excess, management, reducing the pruning frequency, less algae etc.....then it starts with lower light.

This is independent of any dosing nutrient method.

I can do that method with any dosing scheme and change a little here or there, they both/all add the same thing. Same with sediments that are rich in N and P, they still add it and plants can get at it. So some suggest they do not need to dose anything using soil once they set it up for months.

Thing is, what works better and what is the best management for you?
Most tend to do some neglect, many will not buy a scale and play chemist, many are very turned off by all that. While I have a very research oriented side, and have done a lot more testing than most, I still realize people are human and have habitats and things come up. I'm no different.

I'd much rather have you understand light and CO2, nutrients are the easy part. I use those same type of dosing bottles for the traces and any other liquid I add. They are convenient.

I feed fish daily, so I dose daily, but I go off for a week or two often.....so I have a back up in the sediment and simply reduce the light down a tad. I come back, and the tank is fine after 2 weeks etc.

2.2 W/gal of PC or T5 lighting is on the medium high end for me.
Read Poppy's PAR data on T12 vs PC vs T5 on TPT forum for more there.

My tanks are deeper than yours and I use less light.
As far as CO2, Amano and myself both say do not do it.
I'll let you decide who knows what they are talk about more.

If you believe that less is better, then adding CO2 only when you need it, and adding lower light(because the demand is also less, so less is required) would be your goal, if..........you really cared about "less is better".

Why add CO2 at night? There's simply no good reason to do this if you have a good sized tank like yours, and a solenoid will pay for itl;sef in 2 refills, simple: you waste 60-65% of every tank refill having the CO2 on when you do not need it, then you hassle getting the tanks refilled mor eoften as well.

That alone, but wait, there is more; fish health. the no# 1 killer of fish in planted tanks is not NO3 or any nutrient..........it's CO2. This is a simple easy to ask statement you can ask around and see for your self.

Folks gas their fish carelessly every week on these forums. Every week.
KNO3 over dose? No one I've met has ever done it, so where's the risk?
What can we do to reduce this risk?

Less light is one thing.......another is to add it only during the day light cycle. Fish/shrimp respiration is two parts; O2(so have good current) and CO2.

So when we add CO2 during the day, it's also when the plants are giving off O2, so we have high CO2+ high O2, things are fine. Since we only add it for 8-9 hours etc........if the rate is too high, too much etc, again, we get more wiggle room than a chronic setting, which is not strong at night to gas the fish, but is weak when the plants need it during the day.
In effect, I can add more for an 8-10 hour burst during the day than anyone can 24/7. Give your fish a break at night.

We only add CO2 to amplify plant growth and reduce CO2 competition between species. No other reason. A little more fish respiration is fine for a few hours daily. Much better than 24/7.

As far as who to believe, welcome to the internet.:pc:
This ain't no peer review process. It's information, but it is not knowledge.
Some good, some bad, some old and not updated, some quackery, some misinformation. Like an aquarium, the system is only as good as it's filter.

Regards,
Tom Barr

fishycat

04-08-2010, 3:23 AM

Psst... you need to get like 30 of these cuties in your tank! :drool:
124329

For size comparison... that ramshorn is about the size of a nickel. :p:

Okay, :rolleyes: I guess you could also go with 10-12 aeneus corydoras... or pandas!

:rofl:

geekpryde

04-08-2010, 8:19 AM

AM 1000, not 100(sorry), the 1000 is much better for adding CO2 to a tank this size, the 500 is more for maybe 20-40 Gal tank max. Add as much flow as you got to the CO2 and mixing it good in the tank. This will help a great deal.

Regards,
Tom Barr

I will need to read and re-read your post so I understand it all, and commit it to memory. On your first point, since I have to spend more money to replace the Red Sea Reactor 500 anyway, is the Aqua-Medic Co2 Reactor 1000 my best option at ?<$100.00, or is there even a better choice?

Would hooking the Aqua-Medic Co2 Reactor 1000 up to my eheim canister 2217 outflow be a good place to put the AM1000 before water goes back into the tank, or do you recommend a seperate pump and hose arrangement?

As far as CO2, Amano and myself both say do not do it. I'll let you decide who knows what they are talk about more.

If you believe that less is better, then adding CO2 only when you need it, and adding lower light(because the demand is also less, so less is required) would be your goal, if..........you really cared about "less is better".

Why add CO2 at night? There's simply no good reason to do this if you have a good sized tank like yours, and a solenoid will pay for itl;sef in 2 refills, simple: you waste 60-65% of every tank refill having the CO2 on when you do not need it, then you hassle getting the tanks refilled mor eoften as well.

That alone, but wait, there is more; fish health. the no# 1 killer of fish in planted tanks is not NO3 or any nutrient..........it's CO2. This is a simple easy to ask statement you can ask around and see for your self.

Folks gas their fish carelessly every week on these forums. Every week.
KNO3 over dose? No one I've met has ever done it, so where's the risk?
What can we do to reduce this risk?

Less light is one thing.......another is to add it only during the day light cycle. Fish/shrimp respiration is two parts; O2(so have good current) and CO2.

So when we add CO2 during the day, it's also when the plants are giving off O2, so we have high CO2+ high O2, things are fine. Since we only add it for 8-9 hours etc........if the rate is too high, too much etc, again, we get more wiggle room than a chronic setting, which is not strong at night to gas the fish, but is weak when the plants need it during the day.
In effect, I can add more for an 8-10 hour burst during the day than anyone can 24/7. Give your fish a break at night.

We only add CO2 to amplify plant growth and reduce CO2 competition between species. No other reason. A little more fish respiration is fine for a few hours daily. Much better than 24/7.

As far as who to believe, welcome to the internet.:pc:
This ain't no peer review process. It's information, but it is not knowledge.
Some good, some bad, some old and not updated, some quackery, some misinformation. Like an aquarium, the system is only as good as it's filter.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Okay, I like the auto on/off with a timer setup for the lights and co2. I actually already purchased the timer before the "24/7 co2" crowd tried to convert me, LOL. So, as soon as I get plants, you have convinced me shut down co2 (and obviously lights) at night. :iagree:

I will like to post some additional thoughts regarding your lengthy post later in the day.

:goldfish:

geekpryde

04-08-2010, 8:26 AM

Psst... you need to get like 30 of these cuties in your tank! :drool:

Okay, :rolleyes: I guess you could also go with 10-12 aeneus corydoras... or pandas!

:rofl:

Very cute, however, other than cherry barbs, I dont want to add anything until I get the plants in here. Mostly, because I have no idea how much room will be left after the addition of 65+ plants. :eek3:

I mentally can't even think about fish right now. It's funny, these planted tanks almost end up being more about the plants, even though fish are the whole reason to do tanks. If you want plants, you need (more) lightin, co2 in most cases, certain substrates, fertz, and you are really limited on fish selection, since you dont want your plants torn up, or eaten. Seems like it's inevitable to end up with common "community" type fish. I am not saying this is good or bad, I actually dont know who I feel about it. Like I said, I am too mentally exhausted from all that goes into getting a planted tank off the ground to think about fish, LOL.

After the plants are in, I will give full attention to the fish issue(s). :thm:

PAL

04-08-2010, 9:43 AM

Haha same with me, you put in all this effort for the plants and then second come the fish. You first start out with saying "Only 2 plants", then "ok, maybe a couple more", then "$250? ok fine...", later "$200 for CO2, well I guess if it's best for the plants" and finally "I hate this look needs to be redone!" and you still haven't gotten any fish yet. This is my personal problem. Just saying, depending on what foreground you are thinking of getting, you may want to reconsider having cories.

standardbyker63

04-08-2010, 10:55 AM

I completely agree. Once you start getting into planted tanks, it seems that we buy fish to accent our plants instead of the other way around, but having a nice planted tank really helps to set off the colors of the fish and makes a more natural/comfortable environment for the fish as well. For me, having a beautiful and successful planted tank is more challenging than keeping fish, which is what drew me in to planted tanks.

I unfortunately haven't had a good experience with my panda corys. I did a lot of research about them and everyone recommended them for their great personalities. But mine are really skiddish. They hide behind the plants in the back of the tank and every time I get close to the tank to look at them they just swim away to the other side of the tank. It's very aggrivating. I haven't seen any issues with them up-rooting any or my plants though. I've got some dwarf grass in the tank and it's doing fine.

Geek, you should be able to grow quite a bit with 2.2 wpg. I've got a 65w compact fluorescent straight pin hood over my 29 gallon, giving me approx. 2.2 wpg and my plants are doing quite well. Unfortunately, going by the wpg rule is the same as going by the gallon per inch rule for fish. It's not relevant to our current lighting technology and is more a myth than a rule. If you have good coverage so all your plants get plenty of light and you see good growth, then you'll be fine. Like Mr. Barr said above, he grows plenty of plants very successfully with less than 2 wpg. The trick is getting your CO2 dialed in correctly so that your plants can take advantage of the light that's there. I wish I had the money to buy a pressurized system. DIY is starting to become a hassle and doesn't have the accuracy I need.

You seem to have everything you need for a successful tank! Hope to see plants soon!

plantbrain

04-08-2010, 10:56 AM

As far as the AM 1000 reactor, well, that's just one brand, I do all my diffusers DIY or maybe a glass Rhinox off the ebay thing.

They(Rhinox) look and work as good as the ADA models for the most part.
20$ or so for a 5cm version.

I also made a dual venturi style Reactor, works better than the AM1000, but the dual venturi loop can be added to an AM1000 also.

A simpler idea is to use say a Rio 600 or so, cut the impeller blades and bubble the CO2 into this, so called needle wheel powerhead diffuser. Very easy, never clog, cranks a ton of ultra fine CO2 mist into the aquarium with a very small foot print.

Search various threads using "CO2 needle wheel" on my site, The Planted Tank and here.

Very simple and effective.

Cost; 15-20$ for the powerhead, vs say 70$-80$ for AM 1000.

Depends if you want in line with the 2217 or if you want a small internal, once plants are grown in, then it's easy to hide a small powerhead.
Then there's is of the filter, I'd add at least 2 of the Ehiem's on a tank this size. More is always better than less.

You can add more current(the rio would help there), and if you use an in line AM 1000, if the filter clogs, so does the CO2.........so both are reduced and drop should you not to remember to clean regularly etc.

And you will forget........and when CO2 goes down........you will get algae and poor plant growth, but most try to blame it on nutrients......

Always suspect CO2 issues. Nutrients are farther down the line.
Light, once set, is very stable.

CO2 moves around much faster and causes a lot more issues.
Adding it during the day only allows you to have more wiggle room and add more, since it's a temporary "burst".

If you are adding something that if you mess up= dead fish........then it's much better to only add it when you need it.

The 24/7 crowd often have poor efficacy for their diffusion methods, and need a long response time to have it build up enough. Or often times: DIY yeast CO2 which is often hard to get enough CO2(again, a band aid CO2 issue, not doign the CO2 right and effective from the start).

Still it can work for some, mostly lower light or DIY folks, but does nothing good for fish, some do not care as much about the fish also. So it may not matter much for them. Some say it's easier, like this is some horrid trade off or something => adding a timer or a solenoid???

Right.......
But the ethics of stressing fish and I guess is small price to pay for not being able to buy a timer......??

I fail to see the logic.
It's 2/3's of the day I do not have to worry at all about gassing the fish. It's 2/3rd's of WASTED CO2 also. Since PPS likes to make a big deal about waste and excess, adding just enough why is this overlooked as well as light intensity?

If you go with a general philosophy, stick to it.
I guess I'm just not as selective in my logic when it's convenient.
If you buy into it, go whole hog.

Regards,
Tom Barr

geekpryde

04-08-2010, 11:38 AM

You seem to have everything you need for a successful tank! Hope to see plants soon!

Thank you! This project went from a $0.00 budget to a $1,500.00 budget pretty quick once my bosses got involved. I am lucky in that sense, for sure.

Even with all my planning and reading and selecting equipment for the past 12 months, I still make some bad purchases (based on some suggestions from other people I might add :irked:). Anyway, you live and you learn, and I dont think any tank can be setup perfectly without glitches and without having to buy more stuff. Again, luckily for me, I can just cry to my boss and spend a little more company money. Of couse, this has it's limits. If I dont have an AMAZING tank mostly done in the next month, people are going to start asking questions and wondering where the hell all the money went.

Things I regret (so far):

(1) Red Sea Reactor 500. (too small I guess for my tank, does not seem to be consistent, but I dont have enough evidence to prove this yet)

(2) Red Sea Indicator. (It's small and cute and works okay, but I am never 100% sure it's blue or green or teal or almost yellow) I am replacing this with something that might be overkill, but that I will KNOW I am at the correct color: AQUA "Double Check" Drop Checker).

(3) I wish I WOULD have bought a bubble counter to start out with, so I would always have to wonder if my needle valve went flakey over the nights and my bubble rate has changed. It has more to do with me being paranoid than anything else.

(4) Wish I would have realized EI was preferred over PPS-PRO by members at this forum, mostly because EI will have more feedback with members if I have questions.

(5) Wish I would have made less rounds of purchases, meaning instead of ordering from Green Leaf or Dr Fosters multiple times, made single purchases to save time and shipping costs. (this is a minor point)

(6) Wish I would have known putting plants in on day 1 was okay, as I trusted some advice that plants in an uncycled tank with ammonia issues can cause plant issues. Of course, my instant cycle due to seeded media (which worked great for me) would have negated any ammonia/plant issues anyway.

The the most part, IMHO, I have not made too many mistakes, nor have they been TOO costly. We'll see how it goes in the coming weeks.

bored4

04-08-2010, 11:59 AM

Does having the CO2 off at night rise the ph by morning? Or does it take a lot more time for that reaction to happen?

mes1234

04-08-2010, 2:06 PM

Did your plants come yet? We havent seen any pictures of the tank for a few days.

geekpryde

04-08-2010, 2:10 PM

As far as the AM 1000 reactor, well, that's just one brand, I do all my diffusers DIY or maybe a glass Rhinox off the ebay thing.

They(Rhinox) look and work as good as the ADA models for the most part.
20$ or so for a 5cm version.Regards,
Tom Barr

Is something like this works just as well, or almost as well as the AM 1000, then I just assume buy it since it's cheaper and prettier. I just dont want to spend money if it's not going to work good enough.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/diffuser5000.jpg

Everyone else, please chime in. If you use something like this, and it works well on a 55g-90g, let me know.

geekpryde

04-08-2010, 2:14 PM

Does having the CO2 off at night rise the ph by morning? Or does it take a lot more time for that reaction to happen?

I turned off co2 before leaving office last night, and my indicator solution was limey green, came in today and it was more green, and now that I have had co2 off all day, it is more blue green.

Co2 off at night certainly means less co2 in water, so your PH will go up, but if you turn it back on in morning manually, or with timer, it should not be a huge PH jump. I am leaving it off since I dont have plants yet.

I know that adding co2 on the first day took my PH from 7.5 to about 7.0 after 9 hours.

geekpryde

04-08-2010, 2:16 PM

Did your plants come yet? We havent seen any pictures of the tank for a few days.

Sorry, no cool pictures. I only have a macro lens here right now, and more importantly, I dont get more goodies until Monday, and no plants until next thursday, 7 days away. :popcorn: for all my fans, it is going to be a long wait...

standardbyker63

04-08-2010, 2:27 PM

Tom Barr mentioned it above. Perhaps one of the most reliable ways to get CO2 diffused into your tank is using a small power head and running the airline into the input of the power head. Not only does it create a fine mist of micro CO2 bubbles, but it also disperses them throughout the tank so you get a good mixture of CO2 throughout the tank. It may be a bit unsightly at first, but once your plants grow in, like Tom mentioned, it really isn't too bad. I'm not aware of anything that does a better job dispersing CO2 except for perhaps the DIY reactors like this one http://www.rexgrigg.com/diy-reactor.htm or the venturi model Tom Barr made. I think I bought my power head off ebay for less than $20 shipped. The advantage of having a DIY reactor over the power head is that with the power head you tend to have a lot of micro bubbles in the tank, depending of coarse on how much CO2 you need, but it doesn't really bother me. The micro bubbles disappear pretty quickly.

In the picture below you can see the power head with the airline tubing running into the inlet right in the middle of the tank on the back glass.
http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz119/standardbyker63/Fish%20Tank/DSC_05395.jpg

moi-eater

04-08-2010, 5:31 PM

plantbrain

04-08-2010, 6:26 PM

Is something like this works just as well, or almost as well as the AM 1000, then I just assume buy it since it's cheaper and prettier. I just dont want to spend money if it's not going to work good enough.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/diffuser5000.jpg

Everyone else, please chime in. If you use something like this, and it works well on a 55g-90g, let me know.

Well, there's some trade offs. They are cool to look at and watch.
they cloigged, but if you take Tilex, and spray them good say 2-3 week intervals, they run nice and consistent.

Reactors are nice because they require little maintenance. Same for needle wheel, and they cost less as well, some do not like the mist floating around.

So there's trade offs for each method.

They all work.

I use needle wheel, venturi feed, and needle wheel on my tanks depending on which one.

Regards,
Tom Barr

plantbrain

04-08-2010, 6:32 PM

Does having the CO2 off at night rise the ph by morning? Or does it take a lot more time for that reaction to happen?

Yes, the pH should rise. Maybe 1 full unit.
It also rises if you do say a 50-80% water change inside a few minutes, and yet fish and plants are fine, week after week after week, years after year,.........

But........a good effective CO2 diffusion method will knock the pH back down in 30-45 minutes, or add 30-40ppm in this same time frame.
If you cannot get it down this fast, then you need a better CO2 diffuser and better mixing, flow through the system.

pH does not matter much here.
Co2 does.

Also, pH change is not bad/problematic, since it's not due to salts, TDS, KH etc......CO2 is not a dissolved solid nor a salt. KH/baking soda is, so if you changed the pH 1 full unit using baking soda, you better believe this will cause issues. CO2 is very different.

Most advice on pH does not factor this CO2 enrichment into things.
So the advice is not applicable to CO2 enrichment methods about pH.

Regards,
Tom Barr

bored4

04-08-2010, 9:04 PM

Thanks, My question was more concerned with fish than plants. But i understand now that is not the change in ph that causes harm to fish, it's more about changes in TDS that cause osmotic shock. Because in nature your not going to have changes in ph from CO2 injection but from changes in TDS.

Yes, the pH should rise. Maybe 1 full unit.
It also rises if you do say a 50-80% water change inside a few minutes, and yet fish and plants are fine, week after week after week, years after year,.........

Also, pH change is not bad/problematic, since it's not due to salts, TDS, KH etc......CO2 is not a dissolved solid nor a salt. KH/baking soda is, so if you changed the pH 1 full unit using baking soda, you better believe this will cause issues. CO2 is very different.

Most advice on pH does not factor this CO2 enrichment into things.
So the advice is not applicable to CO2 enrichment methods about pH.

Regards,
Tom Barr

geekpryde

04-09-2010, 11:12 AM

Well, there's some trade offs. They are cool to look at and watch. they [get] clogged, but if you take Tilex, and spray them good say 2-3 week intervals, they run nice and consistent.

Reactors are nice because they require little maintenance. Same for needle wheel, and they cost less as well, some do not like the mist floating around.

So there's trade offs for each method.

They all work.

I use needle wheel, venturi feed, and needle wheel on my tanks depending on which one.

Regards,
Tom Barr

I still can't decide, but at least I know now that there is not one perfect solution. I will probably buy the reactor, since I wont have to clean it, and I already told my boss I need another $100.00 smacks. If I were doing this myself I would try the glass, or the DIY method(s).

Again, thanks for the extra effort is helping me get things right in this thread.

geekpryde

04-09-2010, 11:17 AM

PAL

04-09-2010, 1:36 PM

For CO2, you can also run an inline reactor with your canister filter and it works great.

geekpryde

04-09-2010, 1:39 PM

For CO2, you can also run an inline reactor with your canister filter and it works great.

Yeah, that's one of the options I am debating. But Mr. Barr said the downside to this is when the filter clogs, your co2 clogs, and vice-versa.

I cant really imagine my filter clogging though, does that happen (often)?

geekpryde

04-09-2010, 1:58 PM

Tom Barr mentioned it above. Perhaps one of the most reliable ways to get CO2 diffused into your tank is using a small power head and running the airline into the input of the power head. Not only does it create a fine mist of micro CO2 bubbles, but it also disperses them throughout the tank so you get a good mixture of CO2 throughout the tank. It may be a bit unsightly at first, but once your plants grow in, like Tom mentioned, it really isn't too bad. I'm not aware of anything that does a better job dispersing CO2 except for perhaps the DIY reactors like this one http://www.rexgrigg.com/diy-reactor.htm or the venturi model Tom Barr made. I think I bought my power head off ebay for less than $20 shipped. The advantage of having a DIY reactor over the power head is that with the power head you tend to have a lot of micro bubbles in the tank, depending of coarse on how much CO2 you need, but it doesn't really bother me. The micro bubbles disappear pretty quickly.

I wonder if I can jam my co2 line into the underside of my Koralia, I guess it's worth a try.

geekpryde

04-09-2010, 2:23 PM

Here are some new pics, while we all wait for my plants to show up....

I labeled the wires, so I can plug/unplug stuff quickly. Kinda messy down there...

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2388.JPG

Here are my T5HO bulbs reflected in the water, so you can clearly see my 2x 6500K and 1x plant grow (pink).

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2367.JPG

A pic of one of my cherry barbs, with only the middle part of the fish in focus...

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2381.JPG

This is a little better:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2380.JPG

Here is the infiltrator (obviously not a cherry barb, thanks LFS)

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2368.JPG

Side shot, toward the back of tank. See all those scratch marks, must have been from a fish/cat household? :22_yikes:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2389.JPG

geekpryde

04-09-2010, 3:42 PM

:topic: :topic:

Can someone help me with a UCP question, which is to add a link to my signature here at AC?

I want to link to my Tank Log, but I dont want to have the whole darn URL listed, I just want to do a normal link, with a simple human readable like "my tank log", which is a hyperlink. I cant seem to do it.

Yes, I am the "IT" director at my company, and yes, this question makes me feel like an idiot, thanks. :swear:

Come to my rescue, AC gods. :worthy:

p.s. My permissions say "HTML" no, but yes to everything else...

moi-eater

04-09-2010, 3:50 PM

Type in what you want to call it like "Tank log" then highlight it and click 'Insert link' then paste your URL in the popup dialog. It will make your typed in text a link to that URL.

oops that is just for a reg link...checking on sig

yep works the same way for sig

geekpryde

04-09-2010, 4:17 PM

fishycat

04-09-2010, 5:01 PM

Dang, those barbs are so pretty! Wish I could fit a couple in my 10g.

Your mystery fish looks familiar but I can't think what it is... Sneakerfish!

geekpryde

04-09-2010, 7:59 PM

I am sending off a list of fish I want quotes for from a local marine-only store that *might* order me from fancy FW fish along with her next order. I think this is the list I am going to send, let me know if any of these would be a BAD idea, due to fact that I will have heavily planted tank with co2, aggression, etc, etc. Of if you think any of these would be a GREAT idea...

rainbows:

Melanotaenia lacustris, "Turquiose Rainbow" (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/3/3b/20070905172944!Melanotaenia_lacustris_thomnight_00 1.jpg)
Melanotaenia trifasciata,"Trifasciata Rainbow" (http://www.rainbowfishes.eu/gallery/d/261-4/DW_Melanotaenia_trifasciata_001.jpg)
Chilatherina bleheri, "Blehers Rainbow" (http://www.regenboogvissen.be/fish/full/ID_13.jpg)
Apistogramma agassizi (http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/img/Apistogramma_agassizii_4.jpg)
Laetacara curviceps, "Flag Acara" (http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/dbimages/laetacara_curviceps_2.jpg)
Apistogramma nijsseni "Nijsseni's Dwarf Cichlid" (http://www.amaita.com/Imagenes/ImagenesAnimales/Apistogramas/apistogramma_nijsseni.jpg)
Germans Blue Rams
Gold Rams
Wild Rams

I am liking most all Apistos and Rainbows, just dont know which ones will like me (and my tank). Any thoughts?

geekpryde

04-11-2010, 3:41 PM

I think I am going to get the "External Reactor 5000 (EXT5000)" co2 reactor from www.aquariumplants.com (http://www.aquariumplants.com), I just dont really want to get involved with a DIY project at this moment. I think this looks like a step up from the Aqua-Medic Co2 Reactor 1000, which is the other similar product I was considering.

Picture of this unit here: EXT5000 (http://www.aquariumplants.com/PhotoDetails.asp?ShowDESC=N&ProductCode=ext5000)

I have a eheim 2217, and on the return line to the spray bar, I believe it has a 1/2" inside diameter. If you think otherwise, let me know (I am not at the office today).

I also plan on giving the crappy red sea reactor 500 a chance when the plants arrive, but I just dont think it is stable enough to have it on a timer and expect that it will turn on an hour or two before I arrive. I have experienced with my own unit, and have read reports from other people, that this unit sometime will not create the tornado without being shaken, or disturbed, or fickled with. I say this is true 50% of the time when plugging it in.

I have some stuff coming in on Monday (tomorrow), so expect from new pics. I am also going to try and use my kids camera to take a tank shot, which the macro lens on my D70 just cant do in focus.

I also found this product on www.aquariumplants.com (http://www.aquariumplants.com/), has anyone used them to hold down stem plants, or hold stem plants togeather?

Professional Plant Anchors (http://www.aquariumplants.com/PhotoDetails.asp?ShowDESC=N&ProductCode=pr1325)

I dont know alot about planting, so I will be doing some reading about this tonight.

geekpryde

04-11-2010, 3:59 PM

Well, EC has nothing to offer really, ADA As or the worm castings, or DIY soil methods do. For many, it's too late once they are at this stage.
Regards,
Tom Barr

I am re-reading some of the posts you made here in my tank log. I meant to get around to commenting about this quote above. Since I have purchased 160 lbs of EC, I have read this comment and at least one other refering to EC not being that great. I trust your experience in this mater completely, BUT, what I find interesting about it is that after lurking on these forums and reading a ton in the previous 14 months prior to buying anything, I universally read GOOD things about eco-complete, and people also backed this up with money, because I have read through a ton on tank logs here, and other places, that very often use EC.

I have read alot about MTS (mineralized top soil), but if you dont want to do DIY soil at this stage in the game (my first planted tan), and you dont want to pay a huge premium for Amanos stuff, are there better options for people than EC? I am asking this for the benefit of other people reading this thread, because as you aptly point out, there is zero chance I am pulling the substrate at this point in the game.

I can't attest to the mineral content of EC other than pointing at the bag label, but I can say I like the "look" of this substrate for one, and I also like the "feel", various size, etc. It sounds like what you are saying is that there is nothing wrong with EC (in the sense that it would be BAD for plants or fish), but that it doesnt have major benefits either. I wonder why if EC is not much better than just a simple blue colored stone substrate (like my kids tank :D), I wonder why so many people seem to think it is a must-have for a planted tank?

p.s. Is Amanos stuff really the cats-meow?

Slappy*McFish

04-11-2010, 4:02 PM

My ordinary pool filter sand mixed with Flourite grows plants pretty darn well.

moi-eater

04-11-2010, 5:15 PM

I am re-reading some of the posts you made here in my tank log. I meant to get around to commenting about this quote above. Since I have purchased 160 lbs of EC, I have read this comment and at least one other refering to EC not being that great. I trust your experience in this mater completely, BUT, what I find interesting about it is that after lurking on these forums and reading a ton in the previous 14 months prior to buying anything, I universally read GOOD things about eco-complete, and people also backed this up with money, because I have read through a ton on tank logs here, and other places, that very often use EC.

I have read alot about MTS (mineralized top soil), but if you dont want to do DIY soil at this stage in the game (my first planted tan), and you dont want to pay a huge premium for Amanos stuff, are there better options for people than EC? I am asking this for the benefit of other people reading this thread, because as you aptly point out, there is zero chance I am pulling the substrate at this point in the game.

I can't attest to the mineral content of EC other than pointing at the bag label, but I can say I like the "look" of this substrate for one, and I also like the "feel", various size, etc. It sounds like what you are saying is that there is nothing wrong with EC (in the sense that it would be BAD for plants or fish), but that it doesnt have major benefits either. I wonder why if EC is not much better than just a simple blue colored stone substrate (like my kids tank :D), I wonder why so many people seem to think it is a must-have for a planted tank?

p.s. Is Amanos stuff really the cats-meow?

I'm pretty sure Tom is referring to the amount of nutrients available in the soil for plants to use. Those he listed are high in nutrients so there would be less need for water column dosing of ferts.

fishycat

04-11-2010, 6:50 PM

I shelled out some money for a small bag of Aqua Soil:Amazonia for my 5 gallon. I seeded my filter with some media and the ammonia leeched from the AS:A did the rest. The tank cycled in 2 weeks. My plants loved it - dwarf sag never looked better, and my rotala macranda (which I've heard is difficult to grow) is super happy!

I don't think I'd ever use AS:A for anything but a nano tank... way too pricey. And if your tank is already set up, there is the problem of the leeched ammonia. There were workarounds to this (soaking in a bucket for a couple weeks), but really just a PITA unless you're starting from new.

I am curious about Fluorite Black Sand, as I have TMS in my 10g, and have been debating mixing in Fluorite or using root tabs.

geekpryde

04-12-2010, 10:40 AM

I'm pretty sure Tom is referring to the amount of nutrients available in the soil for plants to use. Those he listed are high in nutrients so there would be less need for water column dosing of ferts.

Yeah, that was what I was trying to get at. I think alot of people (including smart people here), assume or think that EC is high in "nutrients available in the soil for plants to use". Tom is saying otherwise (I think).

Tom, if you are still lurking in my little thread here, would adding a product like Flourish Root tabs help me out in this department, as a compliment to my liquid (soon to be dry) dosing?

If you use tabs, but prefer another product to Flourish, please let me know which tabs are worth spending money on.

geekpryde

04-12-2010, 10:48 AM

I shelled out some money for a small bag of Aqua Soil:Amazonia for my 5 gallon. I seeded my filter with some media and the ammonia leeched from the AS:A did the rest. The tank cycled in 2 weeks. My plants loved it - dwarf sag never looked better, and my rotala macranda (which I've heard is difficult to grow) is super happy!

I don't think I'd ever use AS:A for anything but a nano tank... way too pricey. And if your tank is already set up, there is the problem of the leeched ammonia. There were workarounds to this (soaking in a bucket for a couple weeks), but really just a PITA unless you're starting from new.

Yeah, big $$$ and leeching issues, and hard(er) to get (fewer vendors), and expensive shipping, as I doubt ADA vendors let you ship 160 lbs for 8.00, like Dr. Fosters did. Still, I think I will try something else next time other than Eco complete just to see.

geekpryde

04-12-2010, 11:48 AM

New Pics:

I recieved some glass from Cal Aqua Labs, including the Double Check, made in Thailand, and purchased from Green Leaf Aquariums. I can tell why people get into glass, it's very pretty to look at.

You may not know this, but CAL recently redesigned the Double Check. I am not sure if there was a design flaw with the old one, or if they just wanted to mix it up, but here is what the new and old look like.

OLD:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/Doublecheck_old.jpg

NEW: (this photo is upside down)

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/doublecheck_new.jpg

Here is me unpacking the glass, with some other items I purchased.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2390.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2391.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2393.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2394.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2395.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2392.JPG

For size comparison:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2396.JPG

The instructions for the Drop Checker still refer to the old design, and they are a very bad quality photo copy. I think this is such a nice product, with nice packaging, and fairly expensive, you would think they would spend the extra penny each (literally), and produce a nice quality laser-printed set of instructions.

Me adding the reference solution:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2397.JPG

With both solutions in:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2398.JPG

Note, when I added the indicator (blue) solution, a bubble of air made it so that the glass would not fill with the solution. I quickly devised a plan to pop the bubble of air, and I think this trick will come in handy, as I see this being a common problem with the new design. I used a plastic zip tie, which is small and flexible, yet rigid enough to insert, bend almost 90 degress, and allow the ait to come out and fluid to go in.

Installed: :headbang2:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2403.JPG

Let's see how long it takes to come up to color.

geekpryde

04-12-2010, 1:15 PM

Here are shots of my new (and only) bubble counter. I need your help installing this, I have no friggin idea!

:help2:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2404.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2405.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2406.JPG

So, this came with NO directions. Smart people probably dont need directions for something so simple, but I do. :duh:

SO, do I put this on the inside of the aquarium, or do I have choice to put it on the outside (out of water)? Do I need to fill one of the co2 in/out pipes with water or another liquid? Does it matter which pipe is the in / out for the gas?

Please help!

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2407.JPG

Ozymandias

04-12-2010, 1:24 PM

usually they go on the out side, what you do is fill it up with water or mineral oil then hook the input to the horizontal tube then the out put (the the reactor) goes on the vertical toob.

geekpryde

04-12-2010, 2:01 PM

usually they go on the out side, what you do is fill it up with water or mineral oil then hook the input to the horizontal tube then the out put (the the reactor) goes on the vertical toob.

I did as you suggested and filled it with water, but I think I bought too fancy a bubble counter. There is no way I can force the co2 silicone tubing on the ends of this glass beetle bubble counter. I am heating it up with a heat gun (looks like a blow dryer, gets VERY hot), still no dice unless I melt the glass to the tubing.

Anyone have this bubble counter and know the trick?

Ozymandias

04-12-2010, 2:32 PM

you might try lubing it up with some thing also often time hot water helps but sense you tried the heat gun im not sure if it would work.

geekpryde

04-12-2010, 2:50 PM

UPDATE:

I managed to get the co2 silicone tubing onto the glass beetle counter by heating the tubing up so much I burned my fingers. I initially blasted too much co2 and lost about 1/2 the water I had in the counter, but I am not going to pull off the tubing at this point just to add some water back in, as I can still see and count bubbles.

The new drop checked has been installed for several hours, and the color is not really changing so I think the co2 level is low. I am not really going to crank it up yet since there is only one stinking plant in there now, but I also think the dispersion from the red sea reactor 500 may be to blame. I moved it to center back of the tank, which is also where I put the bubble counter. I timed the bubbles and got 60 bubbles in 40 seconds, or 1.5 pbs.

HERE IS A PIC OF BUBBLE COUNTER:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2409.JPG

I like the look of the co2 beetle bubble counter, but plants will eventually block the view if I leave it in the center back.

This is a simple diagram of how I hooked everything up in regards to co2. Do you see anything glaring I need to change?

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/CO2_draw.jpg

Don’t think this problem is solved even though I can count bubble. I still want ideas on how to install this bubble counter, there must be a better way!

plantbrain

04-13-2010, 12:40 AM

Use a Rio 600 or 800, cut the impellers, it'll work 2x as good as this.
See needle wheel CO2.

Regards,
Tom Barr

geekpryde

04-13-2010, 11:56 AM

Use a Rio 600 or 800, cut the impellers, it'll work 2x as good as this.
See needle wheel CO2.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Your comments and my practical experience with the Red Sea Reactor 500 have convinced me that this things stinks. I only made that outline above as a temp. solution until the new reactor I bought comes in. I think plants may be here a day or two before the new reactor, so I needed a setup all ready to go.

Even with the RS500 moved to back-center of the tank, it still takes like 4-6 hours for the indicator solution to change to green. Obviously, this thing is just not working well. I think the new reactor will work great, but if not, I will spend the time to do the DIY mod on a RIO as you have outlined here and in other threads.

geekpryde

04-13-2010, 3:36 PM

Plant shipment might be delayed again, could be in on Friday, but it definately did not ship out today, and it might be next week.

How do I feel right now:

A) :wall:

B) :cry:

C) :angryfire:

D) :irked:

E) All of the above

moi-eater

04-13-2010, 4:28 PM

Hmmm.... E?

plantbrain

04-13-2010, 4:29 PM

Best to ask around for vendors who folks think is best and then also from classified from local hobbyists or on line, folks give nicer, healither stuff than most vendors.

Here's the how to mod for the needle wheel:

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u312/plantbrain/resizedDIYneedlewheel2.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u312/plantbrain/needlewheelDIY1.jpg

Feed CO2 into suction side, done.

Regards,
Tom Barr

myswtsins

04-13-2010, 5:14 PM

What a fantastic thread! A few things I would have done differently, mostly because I am a DIYer, but I have learned SO much (especially from all the links provided). You are doing a great job so far & I hope it continues that way!

Have you checked out the PAR thread by Hoppy? It is one of the most helpful things I have ever seen! I would definitely recommend not using all 3 lights, at least not in the beginning for sure. 2 would be more than enough to grow nearly anything you want & less is more after all, I learned that the hard way. :D

Still have film on the surface? It is normal in planted tanks from what I have seen/read. Good flow helps, my snails seem to like to much on it too.

I am also curious of others opinion of flourite (black sand in particular).

I just want to say I am also a newbie plant keeper & my main planted tank has been a big failure, so far but not for long! The minimal success I have had is directly because of advice from Tom Barr so just keep listening to him. :D I have done a lot more research and plan to implement everything I have learned as soon as I get back from vacation!

:popcorn:

moi-eater

04-13-2010, 5:53 PM

Still have film on the surface? It is normal in planted tanks from what I have seen/read. Good flow helps, my snails seem to like to much on it too.

I also had surface film. Increasing surface agitation helps to reduce/remove it, but that also causes you to gas off CO2 faster so you may have to increase CO2.

Mollies like to munch on it too, ever since I got a pair of platinum sailfin mollies I have never had any more surface film. :thm:

geekpryde

04-13-2010, 6:42 PM

Here's the how to mod for the needle wheel:

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u312/plantbrain/resizedDIYneedlewheel2.jpg

Feed CO2 into suction side, done.

Regards,
Tom Barr

I guess I am going to have to try this, I dont like to disappoint. I never really understood what you meant by cutting the blades, but those photos are perfect! I finally "get" it. Are these pics new for my thread, or part of a DIY step-by-step you made up? I think alot of people could benefit from those simple photos.

Regarding the plants, I did ask around, and I like my vendor. The first shipping delay was because I asked for a delay, and this current delay should be short, and I think I will get better plants because of it. It will be better in the long run, I am only complaining because it is the next big step and I am like a little kid waiting to "see" what the tank looks like planted. There are few things us old guys (29) get excited about, and for me (this week), it's the thought of 65 plants showing up.

Also, I need an excuse to add another few pages of pictures to my little thread here. Expect ALOT of pics of me planting. :thm:

geekpryde

04-13-2010, 6:52 PM

What a fantastic thread! A few things I would have done differently, mostly because I am a DIYer, but I have learned SO much (especially from all the links provided). You are doing a great job so far & I hope it continues that way!

I think that is my best comment yet (for stroking my ego)! :D Thanks!

Have you checked out the PAR thread by Hoppy? It is one of the most helpful things I have ever seen! I would definitely recommend not using all 3 lights, at least not in the beginning for sure. 2 would be more than enough to grow nearly anything you want & less is more after all, I learned that the hard way. :D

I have not read it in detail yet. I plan on doing this before the plants come in, so I am ready. That means probably I will dive into this tomorrow. Today, I reviewed (again), many threads and posts and links about fertilizer. I want to be sure I "get" it, so I can keep it simple and safe. I think I am good here. :thumbsup:

Still have film on the surface? It is normal in planted tanks from what I have seen/read. Good flow helps, my snails seem to like to much on it too.:popcorn:

I honestly think the film I am seeing is extremely fine particals left over from adding eco-complete. If you remember from my first posts in this thread, I did NOT use the clarifier packets that some with EC, because I had ZERO cloudiness and virutally crystal clear water after filling the tank. After a day, however, there was this film I am talking about, and I think had I added the clarifier, it might have binded (bound?) to this ultra fine haze, allowing it to sink and/or be sucked into the canister filter. This is just a theory. It is not from plants, since at the time, there were no plants in the tank. When I do my first really big water change (soon), I think I can cut the film down by 50%, but as you know, sucking the very top layer of water is hard without breaking the suction. I would need some sort of overflow box for that I think.

Again, thank you for the kind words. I was hoping from the start that this thread could benefit other people, and not just end up a short-lived vanity project.

geekpryde

04-13-2010, 6:57 PM

I also had surface film. Increasing surface agitation helps to reduce/remove it, but that also causes you to gas off CO2 faster so you may have to increase CO2.

There is always the delicate balance. I am going to test theories about agitating at night to increase oxygen and maybe break up this film. Thanks for the post.

myswtsins

04-13-2010, 9:13 PM

The film in planted tanks comment was not inferring that the plants cause the film but because planted tanks (co2 injected) have very little surface agitation & that causes the film. :)

Be care with agitating the surface at night, it causes great fluctuations in the CO2 and that makes algae. Try it if you like, some people do this and have success but I've read a lot of responses from highly revered people that this is not a good idea.

geekpryde

04-14-2010, 8:19 AM

Silicone tubing pulled off the bubble counter for the second morning in a row. There is just NOT a good way to get silicone tubing on these glass beetle counters easily and safely. It is not that they are too delicate, actually, I smacked mine off the top of the light hood this morning, and it was fine. These things are built pretty thick. But at the same time, they do no taper the glass where tubing needs to slide on. I again heated up the tubing with my heat gun, jammed a pen down inside it to stretch it out (this works pretty well), and then jammed it onto the glass. This seems to work well in day, but I am pretty sure I will find it has slipped off again tomorrow morning. At least I am not running co2 at night, so there is no co2 loss.

Even though this bubble counter works well at counting bubbles, is pretty to look at, and is fairly sturdy for a piece of glass, I dont think I can recommend it to anyone for the sheer PITA of installing it. Sorry Green Leaf Aquariums...

geekpryde

04-14-2010, 10:17 AM

moi-eater

04-14-2010, 12:05 PM

geekpryde

04-14-2010, 12:05 PM

Looks like it is coming along nicely! I am planning to replace my planted 55g with a 75g soon (hopefully).

One thing I want to mention, if the light you have is the Catalina 3x54 T5HO then you would be running very high light with all 3 bulbs (about 165 micromols of PAR according to Hoppy's graph on TPT) and 2 bulbs gives you high light and 1 bulb medium light (if I read it correctly). Here is the link to that thread: PAR graph (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html)

Be sure to keep the updates coming! :thm:

Regarding this thread (about PAR):

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html

I finally read through it, and it's simple enough. But it seems that this is only one person testing a few bulbs. Granted, this type of data is extremely appreciated, and there are not enough people producing actual data in much of the online aquarium threads. But has anyone else confirmed the results? Or have the points at which the High/Med/Low light gets delineated (e.g. that a PAR of >80 means HIGH light) reached a consensus?
If I am reading the graph correctly, it looks like a single T5HO bulb in my tank, which is about 19 inches at the max (bottom of light to top of substrate), is around PAR 65. My light sits 3 inches above water and my soil is 4 inches deep.
So one bulb means that the top of my plants are in High light, and the bottom of plants are smack in the middle of Medium light. So, if I were to run two bulbs, I would think everything in the tank would be High light. My light fixture was fairly cheap, I wonder why if 1 bulb can get people by with a typical 20 inch tall tank, why do people go crazy with 4+ bulb setups that are like 6 wpg, and must be off the PAR chart into extreme light.
I don’t want to give plants too much light or too little. After reading that thread, I don’t know if I should run 1, 2, or 3 of my bulbs. The thread would suggest 1, maybe 2 max. But I am looking at tank now, and I don’t know if visual inspection counts much, but my tank “looks” to have a nice amount of light. If I back it off to just one bulb, the tank looks rather dark to me.
Again, this is a situation where I thought I had the right light, and now that I read more, I am thinking too much light. If I read something new tomorrow, I will think I have too little light, LOL. :wall:
Can someone confirm I understand that PAR thread correctly, and maybe give me some feedback on what to do in terms of number of bulbs to run?
:crazy:

geekpryde

04-14-2010, 12:17 PM

Where did u get the tubing from? Also did you contact Orlando at GLA about your problem? He is very helpful.

I got tubing from Don at http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/. Very shiny and stiff compared to most all other tubing I have seen for air and co2. I think the co2 loss is greatly reduced using this tubing, or so Don tells me. I have read this elsewhere too.

I have no issues with GLA. I purchased all my dry fertz from them, two peices of glass, a check valve, etc. They ship fast and well packaged, so I dont really want to complain to GLA. It is more a design flaw (my personal opinion), in regards to some of these all-glass bubble counters / diffusers. The glass ends should be tapered. Maybe I will call Orlando, but only to see if he has any other tricks, or very slightly larger ID silicone tubing.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will let you know if I end up calling.

myswtsins

04-14-2010, 2:43 PM

Again, this is a situation where I thought I had the right light, and now that I read more, I am thinking too much light. If I read something new tomorrow, I will think I have too little light, LOL. :wall:
Can someone confirm I understand that PAR thread correctly, and maybe give me some feedback on what to do in terms of number of bulbs to run?
:crazy:

Welcome to the world of aquaria! There is a lot of opinions and even a lot of different proven approaches to keeping fish and even more for keeping plants. :)

As far as light is concerned I leave those crazy high light tanks to people with FAR too much time on their hands and a better understanding of planted tanks. What kind of plants are you planning on growing, in particularly foreground plants? And what kind of maintance are you looking to put into the tank? Before you can know what you need, you need to know what you want (to put into the tank and what you want to get out of it). Also don't doubt your light purchase! That is a very good light with good reflectors and you can easily not use all the bulbs, if you needed more light that be a different story.

In reference to that particular thread about PAR, Hoppy is a well know name over at TPT with much ecperience & I'd trust those numbers to be pretty accurate. Like you said there is not a lot to compare them to but they are an EXCELLENT starting point for sure. As far as what qualifys as low, medium or high light in terms of PAR I can't say much but it would seem much more accurate then low, medium or high light in terms of WPG, especially because WPG is based on less powerful light (T12) than what people use these days.

RisiganL.

04-14-2010, 3:49 PM

Hey,geek, could you post some more pics of your tank at the moment?

geekpryde

04-14-2010, 3:52 PM

Here is the color I am getting on the new drop checker. The new glass from GLA with the reference solution and the 4dkh are working much better than the tank water + Red Sea indicator I had in the begining.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2412.JPG

geekpryde

04-14-2010, 4:04 PM

Hey,geek, could you post some more pics of your tank at the moment?

I dont have the correct lens at the moment, and nothing has changed in the last few days. Plants are either tomorrow or Friday (fingers crossed), and then there will be alot of pics. Here are some crappy shots (cant get whole tank in one pic).

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2420.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2421.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2422.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2424.JPG

See the crap floating on top of water?

I think on the shot below, the amazon sword is less happy in this high tech tank then it was in my kids tank. :mad:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2425.JPG

moi-eater

04-14-2010, 4:04 PM

Welcome to the world of aquaria! There is a lot of opinions and even a lot of different proven approaches to keeping fish and even more for keeping plants. :)

As far as light is concerned I leave those crazy high light tanks to people with FAR too much time on their hands and a better understanding of planted tanks. What kind of plants are you planning on growing, in particularly foreground plants? And what kind of maintance are you looking to put into the tank? Before you can know what you need, you need to know what you want (to put into the tank and what you want to get out of it). Also don't doubt your light purchase! That is a very good light with good reflectors and you can easily not use all the bulbs, if you needed more light that be a different story.

In reference to that particular thread about PAR, Hoppy is a well know name over at TPT with much ecperience & I'd trust those numbers to be pretty accurate. Like you said there is not a lot to compare them to but they are an EXCELLENT starting point for sure. As far as what qualifys as low, medium or high light in terms of PAR I can't say much but it would seem much more accurate then low, medium or high light in terms of WPG, especially because WPG is based on less powerful light (T12) than what people use these days.

:iagree:
You have a good fixture and you have all the light you need to grow pretty much anything. So depending on the plants you are growing and what they need you can adjust your light to fit (by turning on only 1 or 2 bulbs, or hanging it above the tank).

As far as how bright the light looks, that is measured in lumens I believe and plants don't really care about lumens, they care about PAR. Of course, you don't want your tank to look dim when your viewing it. :p:

moi-eater

04-14-2010, 4:10 PM

I think on the shot below, the amazon sword is less happy in this high tech tank then it was in my kids tank. :mad:

It's pretty early to tell now, but with good CO2, lights, and ferts that sword is gonna take over that half of the tank. :grinyes:

myswtsins

04-14-2010, 4:13 PM

:iagree: It still looks beautiful & it is probably just adjusting to the new environment.

plantbrain

04-14-2010, 6:17 PM

Add more plants!
Add 5 more swords that same size.
Maybe some E. tennellus as a foreground weed.

Regards,
Tom Barr

fishycat

04-15-2010, 2:18 AM

geekpryde

04-15-2010, 8:18 AM

What happens if you overdose Plantex CSM+B?

geekpryde

04-15-2010, 8:28 AM

What's the male:female ratio for your cherries? You need to put more tank pics in this thread. Helps alleviate the headaches when I try to keep up with the ferts/light/PAR conversation. :p: Looking forward to your long-awaited plants arriving!

(Oh yeah, what about the sneakerfish??)

Male/ female ratio....Hmmm, let me go count.

:popcorn:

Males: 6
Females: 8
Fake Cherry Barb: 1
Total: 15

On this subject, I also want to state something regarding female cherry barbs. I have read several descriptions of this fish, and I think the female is unfairly characterized as "boring", or "plain". This is NOT the case with my fish. Here is an example quote

Female Cherry barbs are not as vividly coloured and will usually display a rather dull orange shade. (http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/barbs/cherrybarb.php)

I totally disagree with this assesment. I would say I almost prefer the female coloring, but certainly a good mix of m/f is very pretty. My females are yellow/orange, with a dark lateral line, and a white belly. My males are either very red, or a red-brown. In either case, this very different coloring is like getting two fish in one species. Anyway, I like it.

Squawkbert

04-15-2010, 9:51 AM

h20bug

04-15-2010, 12:42 PM

What a beautiful tank in the making! Thanks for posting this for us to all enjoy.

geekpryde

04-15-2010, 12:48 PM

What a beautiful tank in the making! Thanks for posting this for us to all enjoy.

Thank you! :D

geekpryde

04-15-2010, 12:55 PM

Good start!

In addition to more plants, I'd scoot the one sword a bit away from the corner (they do get quite big) - and I'd switch the sm. Cichlid stone and driftwood positions, the DW is a bit too centered.

Any chance you can find another, larger DW piece?

Also - I'd position the heater horizontally along the bottom (an inch or two off the substrate) - no need to see it all the time. The film on the water surface should dissipate on its own if circulation is adequate, otherwise blot it off w/ a (strong - not generic) paper towel or coffee filter.

Actually the rocks (cichlid stones), and Amazon sword are coming out on Tuesday when the plants get here. The driftwood will be moved them. I dont have an exact plan for the location of the driftwood, but there is a firm plant layout, and I will squeeze it in if I can. The way the tank looks now has always been just a temporaily thing, believe me, I know this layout stinks, :hitting:.

The deal with heaters is this, both are techincally the same exact model, but one has a different power cord and says "submersible", and the other says it can only be submersed up to xxxx line. Since I didnt want to risk ignoring the directions, I keep both of the tops (where the temp dial is), out of the water according to the marking on the heaters. In my kids tank, I also prefer a horizontal approach to hide them heaters low in the tank.

Also, since buying these heaters, I have adjusted them to reality. At first, these things were reading like -5 degrees F compared to the actual water temp. The eheim heaters do make it real easy to re-calibrate them, or whatever it's called.

I do like your idea about coffee filters, I am going to try that with unbleached filters. :thumbsup:

Thanks for reading, keep checking back.

geekpryde

04-15-2010, 1:05 PM

What happens if you overdose Plantex CSM+B?

Look, I am quoting myself! :lol:

Okay, I started a new thread regarding the above question, since I was kinda freaked out about what I did. More can be found here (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224482).

I ended up doing a 35% water change a few hours after OD the tank with Trace Fertz, just to be safe.

Here is what I did (so stupid).

See where it says GOOD, yeah, that is the cap I thought I opened. See the one that says BAD, well see, that is the cap I actually opened. And then I poured. Took about 1 second to realize what I did, and then 60 ml fell into the tank.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/GOOD_BAD.jpg

:eek3:

geekpryde

04-15-2010, 2:51 PM

No plants until Tuesday. :shakehead:

I dont know if my fish are deciding to get mean, or they are in heat, but instead of being a nice group of 14 cherry barbs, the males spend all day chasing each other, and chasing tail. Seems that they are not pairing off, cause the males just try to cozy up with any female that gets close. The males seem to be staking out spots in my large Amazon sword, and are defending their spots relentlessly. I didnt think there was this kind of behavior in the nice schooling community fish. :goldfish:

They are not trashing each other mind you, but they are giving good chase.

fishycat

04-15-2010, 3:56 PM

Oy, that's a lot of males for that many females. At least there's space to run away! I have Endler's, so I understand. :laugh: I'm sure things will settle after you get the plants in. Yay, Tuesday!!

plantbrain

04-15-2010, 3:58 PM

What happens if you overdose Plantex CSM+B?

You end up with more weeds?

Regards,
Tom Barr

geekpryde

04-15-2010, 4:46 PM

So I have been wondering about very small bubbles my Amazon sword gives off, usually in the later afternoon. I know people generally say plants take in co2, and give of oxygen, but I wanted to google it to make sure. The thing is, I can't tell if this steam of bubbles is from a water change, and it just settling on the leaves and then released from the tips of the leaves, or if I am actually seeing oxygen being released into the water as a byproduct of photosynthesis. Anyway, here is one of the quotes I found that sounded informed:

Link here. (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/39958)

Using the energy from light, the plant cells tear apart the molecules of carbon dioxide and water, CO2 and H2O...In the second step the plants recombine those seperated Carbon, Oxygen, and Hydrogen atoms into sugar. The thing is that after making the sugar there are some oxygen atoms left over and that oxygen is released .

The actual formula is 6(CO2) + 6(H2O) (+ light energy) > C6H12O6 + 6(O2). Photo synthesis takes place in cells called chloroplasts, which contain the chlorophyll, chlorophyll looks green because it reflects green light but absorbs red and blue, it is the red and blue that provides the energy...at night plants actually take in oxygen and give off CO2. That's because they are breaking down that sugar to get energy for growth and combining other elements, minerals, and chemicals for making flowers, fruit, seeds etc. Actually they are doing the same thing in daylight too, but photosynthesis is so efficient that the plant makes more sugar than it actually needs so there is an excess of oxygen.

So, do you think I am seeing this release, or is this gas exchange not visible to the naked eye?

Anyway, it's kind of fun to watch.

geekpryde

04-15-2010, 4:48 PM

You end up with more weeds?

Regards,
Tom Barr

So are you telling me I didnt just poison my fish, or are you asking too? :dance2:

fishycat

04-15-2010, 5:18 PM

So, do you think I am seeing this release, or is this gas exchange not visible to the naked eye?

Anyway, it's kind of fun to watch.

do you mean "pearling"? I think it's something like excess o2 released by the plants. When you do a water change, the water is usually saturated with o2 which encourages pearling. If you look at my photo thread in my sig (PLUG! lol), I have pics of pennywort & java fern doing this. It also happens in high light co2 planted tanks, especially with "heavy breather" plants.

If I'm misunderstanding and you are already aware of pearling, disregard! :duh:

mes1234

04-15-2010, 5:51 PM

geek jesus, when are you going to get plants? Ive been waiting for a while lol.

geekpryde

04-16-2010, 8:37 AM

geek jesus, when are you going to get plants? Ive been waiting for a while lol.

Yeah, good thing I didnt have you hold your breath. Half the people that read the planted forum would be long since dead, LOL.

I really do think the plants will be here on Tuesday, any more delays and I will have to actually get mad. Up until now, I took the trade where I get better plants, more rare plants, if I wait a little longer. Remember, I did ask for a one week delay, so really the plants will on be here 5 days late. (Should have been here on 15th, then should have been here 16th with expedited shipping, will get them on 20th, fingers crossed).

I think (and hope) the wait will be worth it. Besides reading alot, I dont have much hands on experience with plants, certainly not red or rare plants, so I left it up to my plant guy for selection and layout. I know this probably sounds lame for all you plant experts, but anything i would have done would be very unaesthetic. This way, I should get an immediate wow factor, plus be able to learn-on-the-job so to speak.

All I can say is, if the plants are friggin gorgeous, I think you guys will probably be justified in locking my thread and kicking me out. :D

:popcorn:

geekpryde

04-16-2010, 8:39 AM

do you mean "pearling"? I think it's something like excess o2 released by the plants. When you do a water change, the water is usually saturated with o2 which encourages pearling. If you look at my photo thread in my sig (PLUG! lol), I have pics of pennywort & java fern doing this. It also happens in high light co2 planted tanks, especially with "heavy breather" plants.

If I'm misunderstanding and you are already aware of pearling, disregard! :duh:

I looked at your photos. I definately have that (pearling) on my leaves, but what I talking about here, and seeing in the late afternoons, is much, much smaller bubbles, that actually "stream" off the very tips of leaves, and looks like a tiny bunch of clear ants marching in orderly file to the surface. I will try to get a photo, but I doubt it will come through.

fishycat

04-16-2010, 11:06 AM

I looked at your photos. I definately have that (pearling) on my leaves, but what I talking about here, and seeing in the late afternoons, is much, much smaller bubbles, that actually "stream" off the very tips of leaves, and looks like a tiny bunch of clear ants marching in orderly file to the surface. I will try to get a photo, but I doubt it will come through.

that actually happened with the anubias nana in my 10g. Freaked me out a bit (so not a heavy breather plant) but it only happened once. Missed photo op. My java fern will hold o2 and stream sometimes, too.

geekpryde

04-16-2010, 3:53 PM

If anyone has general planting advice, (for a mass planting of a new tank), anytime between now and tuesday morning would be nice.

post your Links and tips.

mes1234

04-17-2010, 8:08 AM

my advice is to cut the roots down if there long. Cut them short, they will make new ones. Ive noticed if I cut the roots down, the plants growth takes off after like 3 days of cutting.

geekpryde

04-17-2010, 11:55 AM

Moved some fish today. We added 10 neon tetras to my kids tank, and while floating the bag, we did a water change (on my kids tank), and caught my curvicep aka Dwarf Flag, and also my female Krib aka Pelvicachromis pulcher. They as peaceful and slow moving in the tank, except when I was trying to catch them! Both can move fast to avoid the net. I endedup ripping out all the plants and the castle, but in the end they found their way into bags. I added a squirt of StressCoat to each bag and carried both bags inside a 5 gallon HD bucket incase of holes, etc.

They also lost most of their color, the intense red belly completely drained from the Krib, and I would say removing them from my kids tank was very stressfull for me and the fish. I hope it was worth it, and they like their new home. They both are long term fish in my kids tank, and I hope they continue to live long and be happy in their new home, but only time will tell.

Here are some pics.

KRIB floating in new home, color coming back slightly.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0291.JPG

CURVICEP (one of the most underrated peaceful cichlid):

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0292.JPG

p.s., HERE is how I solved my overdose problem from earlier posts. KISS.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0288.JPG

FTS with floating fish. Fish are new to tank, not to me.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0293.JPG

geekpryde

04-17-2010, 12:00 PM

my advice is to cut the roots down if there long. Cut them short, they will make new ones. Ive noticed if I cut the roots down, the plants growth takes off after like 3 days of cutting.

Will do, thank you. :worthy:

geekpryde

04-18-2010, 7:11 AM

Checked on the tank this morning, and the Krib has not regained color and it not eating. She spends here time moving between the three cichlid rocks, so at least she has cover. I hope she gets used to this new home soon. Curvicep has been exploring a bit and seems to be adjusting.

fish-n-chips

04-18-2010, 8:16 AM

mes1234

04-18-2010, 9:04 AM

geekpryde

04-18-2010, 1:09 PM

I hope your plants show up on tuesday. I really like kribs, I'm certain her colors will come back after you plant and the tank fills up more. I envy your Leatacara Curviceps, I would like to find some in my area.:popcorn: waiting for new picks, hopefully on tuesday.

I hope your right about the Krib. I think you probably are. If plants dont come on tuesday, you guys will all know I am a big :liar:.

There be lots of pics, too many probably. :grinno: I have noticed a little bit of algae, real fine stuff. I dont know anything about algae, but I will post some pics. Once I get all the plants in, I think they will suck up all the goodies the hair algae is currently snacking on.

geekpryde

04-18-2010, 1:13 PM

geek, are you going to get a sweet piece of driftwood? Once your plants come in, a awesome piece of driftwood would just make the tank pop. I got a large piece off amazon.com and it was only $11. It was already treated and sinks.

I like the branchy peices, not the large stumps so much. I know it makes alot more sense to put in wood before the plants, or at the same time. But at this point, plants are the concern. Once I actually manage to plant all these plants according to the layout, and they live, and I dont have a algae explosion, I think I will definately look into some amazon or AC classified driftwood. I also started a post (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223310)at one point about just using ANY wood, like something I found in the woods, and I think the consensus is that this would be fine.

geekpryde

04-18-2010, 4:46 PM

The curvicep is loving her new home, likes to pick up rocks from the eco-complete, swish them around in her mouth, and then spit them back out. Kind of fun to watch, I assume she is eating something?

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0368.JPG

ps, there will be equipment pictures tomorrow, as the new co2 Reactor I bought comes in, as well as Flourish tabs.

geekpryde

04-19-2010, 11:07 AM

Received External Reactor 5000 (EXT5000) Hose Fittings Inside Diameter:1/2" from AquariumPlants.com today. It should have also come with Flourish Tabs, but they were not in the box. :shakehead:

I shot off an email to customer service, so I'll let you know how they handle it.

UPS also decimated the box, but nothing looks damaged to me, thank the maker (star wars geeks should get that).

Here are the initial photos, and I will post more after I have time to actually install it.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0374.JPG

Hardware goodies:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0375.JPG

Here it the top view:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0376.JPG

geekpryde

04-19-2010, 5:06 PM

I had to go out to a hardware store and buy 8 more feet of 1/2" ID clear tubing, since eheim provides a very short run with their canister filters. Luckily I sourced it easily online, and ran to an area hardware store to pick it up. Here are the installation pics:

With mounting plate attached:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2431.JPG

Disconnected spray bar:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2432.JPG

New, much longer, double tap extension from canister filter.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2434.JPG

Hose barb from the new reactor connected to eheim 1/2" ID tubing.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2435.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2436.JPG

More pics later tonight. No, I dont have tracking info for my plant order which supposedly shipped today, dont ask. :wall:

geekpryde

04-19-2010, 7:16 PM

Here is the new hose I purchased, used as the output from the aquariumplants.com reactor 5000.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2438.JPG

eheim canister filter 2217 with new longer reach to double tap connector, allowing for a bigger bend and easier placement of reactor/filter setup.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0379.JPG

It took me a while of jamming my body inside the cabinet and trying to hand screw the reactor retaining bracket to the cabinet wall before I got smart and went to find a cordless drill. Much easier! :y220d:

Look how nice it looks installed.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0378.JPG

Here you can see the reactor in relation to the filter.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0380.JPG

Reactor shown with co2 feed installed. NOTE: I originally opened valves to allow water to come into reactor, and to my suprise water started shooting out of co2 feed. I quickly shut off double tap vales, slipped on co2 tube coming out of bubble counter, and then continued to fill the reactor 5000. Come to find out, you actually want to bleed air out of this brass co2 barb valve, which also will bleed out some water at the same time. Since this reactor came with no instructions, someone may find this info helpful (I had to call).

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0383.JPG

Diagram, in case you were curious. In case you wondering why I have this gorgeous bubble counter hiding down inside the cabinet, it's because I dont have a use for it inside the tank with this new co2 reactor. I still want to see the bubbles, so I know when the co2 is on, so this is my quick-and-dirty method. I think it will work well.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0381.JPG

geekpryde

04-19-2010, 7:50 PM

You might have noticed in the previous photos that the external reactor 5000 is only half full of water. Since I had to call the people at aquariumplants.com anyway (about my missing flourish tabs), I asked them about this. They told me this is a common problem and to bleed the air out through the co2 barb, which means getting a little wet. I actually did not end up doing this, since when I came back two hours later to do this, most of the air had dissolved into the water through all the turbulence (my theory anyway), and there was only a small pocket left or air. :thumbsup:

I wish aquariumplants.com would include instructions about installing this thing. Some of us have never done this before! This problem is not limited to them; I would say that after spending over $1500.00 on aquarium related hardware, lack of directions is a common and major problem for all of the 5+ vendors I have used. For the most part, eve when there are directions, they are terrible. How hard can it be to write coherent directions for installation, common troubleshooting, and some black and white photos? They should be written so that a ten year old could install these things. I am talking about canister filters, light fixtures, reactors, bubble counters, drop checkers, heaters, everything!

I am happy to report that aquariumplants.com picked up the phone and quickly agreed to resend my missing Flourish Tabs. (They saw them sitting on the table over the weekend; someone just didn’t stick them in the box). I also brought up one other issue to them.

See the picture below from aquariumplants.com; I have marked three sections in colored boxes. The blue box shows the optional ph probe holder/mount, which the picture description on their site and the reactor 5000 description clearly lists as optional and extra. I saw that and decided I didn’t want it. See the items in the green boxes, the two ball valves? I assumed and I think any normal customer spending $100.00 on this reactor would assume that you get those valves. I even thought I would get the check valve shown in the picture. None of this shipped, and I asked them about this. I wanted to know if it was because I am an idiot and assumed wrong, or if like the flourish tabs it was a simple oversight on the shipping dept. I was told by two people that those valves do not come with the reactor unless you get the optional ph probe. One person also didn’t understand why anyone would want to have shutoff valves if you didn’t have the probe. I calmly explained that I expected the valves, needed the valves, because I may want to break the reactor out of the water circulation setup at one point, to clean it, inspect it, and replace it, ect. I also told them they should update either the picture to not show the valves, or to change the product description. I think this would benefit future customers. I didn’t have to talk too long, and second person I talked to agreed to ship them out free of charge along with the tabs. Cool. I am not being a jerk customer with unrealistic expectations am I?

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/ext5000-2.jpg

In the end, if the stuff shows up as promised, I would rate aquariumplants.com very high on customer service when there are little issues. I will let you know in a future post if this reactor works as advertized.

If I don’t post tomorrow it's because my plants did not come in as promised and I freaked out.

ddlbrooks

04-19-2010, 9:21 PM

nguyendetecting

04-20-2010, 6:09 AM

great conversation with your vendor and you did make some good points, hence them sending you the valves. Why wouldn't they send them anyway?? sucks about your bubble counter it does look nice lol. Great build so far!

geekpryde

04-20-2010, 7:47 AM

If I don’t post tomorrow it's because my plants did not come in as promised and I freaked out.

I just realized that since I talked about aquariumplants.com for almost the entire previous post, and then ended the post with a pithy comment about my plants probably not showing up today as promised, and since they sell plant packages, people may get the wrong idea.

I did NOT order my plant package from aquariumplants.com (maybe I should have). If they are delayed again, it would obviously NOT be a poor reflection on them, since they are not my plant vendor.

I just wanted to make that crystal clear, so people dont get the wrong idea. I have never ordered plants from them (yet), so I cant make a comment one way or the other, but if you are thinking about ordering from them, there will be plenty of people here at AC that can steer you in the right direction.

Sorry for any confusion I caused. :goldfish:

geekpryde

04-20-2010, 9:35 AM

PLANTS SHIPPED! :dance:

now lets see if they arrive! :popcorn:

Here are the plants I should get:

10 Rotala Indica - Background
9 Ludwigia Narrowleaf - Background
9 Limnophila Indica - Background
3 Limnophila Aromatica - Background
1 Pennywort - Background
4 Crypt Lutea - Midground side
Free Plant - Lindernia Variegated
1 Pot Baby Tears (Hemianthus Micranthemoides - "HM" - Midground
1 Kleiner Bar Sword - Midground
4 Crypt Willisii - Midground
2 Anubias Nana narrowleaf - rhizome plant
1 Dwarf Aquarium Lily - Midground
4 Crypt Wendtii Red - Midground
1 Pot Hygrophila Kompakt - Midground
4 Crypt Wendtii Green - Midground side
1 Pot Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis - Foreground
1 Pot Hemianthus Callictroides - "HC" (Dwarf Baby Tears) - Foreground
1 Pot Dwarf Hairgrass - Foreground

geekpryde

04-20-2010, 10:36 AM

BOX IS HERE: :clap:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0385.JPG

BOX OPENED:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0386.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0387.JPG

PLANT ON FILE CABINET:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSCF0390.JPG

There is so much work to do! Plants and "real" work! :nilly:

geekpryde

04-20-2010, 10:39 AM

This has been so interesting and you've done a great job in sharing this with all of us. I noticed you didn't have a glass top on your tank? Are you worried about the fish jumping out? I have quite a few rainbows and I've thought about taking the glass top off but was afraid to. I think you switched from rainbows to a different group of fish though, may not be a problem.

I had to kill my plans on having killifish, since they are crazy good jumpers. I have not heard that rainbows jump, so I guess we'll see. Cherry barbs, Kribs, and Curviceps do not jump (so far). I really do not want to get a glass top, so I think I would change my fish selection before getting a top.

geekpryde

04-20-2010, 2:29 PM

Make sure to check back a few pages, as I have posted a ton of new pics in last 24 hours.

I am posting *some* individual plants shots as I take them out of the bag. This is not all of the plants, for that see the list I posted earlier.

Kleiner Bar Sword - Midground

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2456.JPG

Pennywort - Background

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2450.JPG

Lindernia Variegated

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2454.JPG

Dwarf Hairgrass (sorry for dark pic)

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2477.JPG

Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis - Foreground

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2460.JPG

Crypt Willisii - Midground

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2474.JPG

Hemianthus Callictroides - "HC" (Dwarf Baby Tears) - Foreground

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2462.JPG

dwarf Baby tears with rock wool

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2464.JPG

Crypt Wendtii Red - Midground

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2458.JPG

Crypt Lutea - Midground side

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2452.JPG

Limnophila Indica - Background

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2447.JPG

Ludwigia Narrowleaf - Background

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2444.JPG

Rotala Indica - Background

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2442.JPG

Next up, PLANTING! :omg:

geekpryde

04-20-2010, 2:40 PM

Here is a FTS right before planting, looks kinda sparse to say the least:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2439.JPG

Notice the water level is going down, I took about 1/4 out to make planting easier, and since none of the backgound plants were huge yet, I didnt have to worry about them flopping all over the place.

Want to see how you do a quick water change in an office/industrial building? You hang the hose out the window and let it dump down the side of the building. :D

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2441.JPG

For the planting, I turned off most everything. Heater (since they would be exposed to air for a lengthy period), Filter (so it wouldnt make even more a mess), as well as, the co2 and co2 reactor. Lights stayed on.

Done with most of the planting:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2481.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2480.JPG

Here is a side shot right after planting. Water is still low, and the water column in filled with plant bits and dirt.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2482.JPG

Here I am filling the tank back up after planting. I did a cap-full of prime, and re-dosed Major / Minor / trace elements.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2483.JPG

emptywallet

04-20-2010, 2:43 PM

What do you use to difuse your co2?

geekpryde

04-20-2010, 3:17 PM

Make sure you check previous pages, you may have missed some plant pics.

Here is the layout I used. Too late to change anything, as I am not digging around in the soil for awhile, but if you want to offer some constructive criticism or praise, I am now taking comments.

Grey = rock
Red = red or red-ish plant
Green = Green plant
Brown = driftwood

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/mattberry75gal%20v2.jpg

geekpryde

04-20-2010, 3:21 PM

What do you use to difuse your co2?

There are a ton of posts in my tank journal thread (where you are posting) that discuss my options for co2, but two pages prior to this page, I talk about the EXT5000 from aquariumplants.com that I just got, and there are a bunch of pictures too. That replaced a Red Sea 500.

click here to jump back 2 pages (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222687&page=22)

geekpryde

04-20-2010, 3:31 PM

Here are some detail shots after planting. Yes, there is alot of "stuff" floating around in the water. That is why the photos are dark and grainy looking. This is also settle out, as I am sure you are aware. I dont really know when the water will be pretty again, but probably tomorrow?

These are 10 mins after planting, click to make really big:

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2467.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2463.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2451.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2472.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2475.JPG

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2457.JPG

I think this all looks good, but this is my first major planted tank and my first major planting. So let me know if I am doing something dumb.

Going to get some energy, this made me tired.

:coffee2:

Slappy*McFish

04-20-2010, 8:52 PM

Looks like a great start!

geekpryde

04-21-2010, 8:38 AM

Looks like a great start!

Thanks!

JimL

04-21-2010, 8:44 AM

Looks good. Give it a few weeks and I'll bet it's going to look real sharp. Keep posting pics. it's fun watching things grow out.

geekpryde

04-21-2010, 8:46 AM

Since I changed the co2 reactor from the RS500 to the EXT5000 I noticed that when I shut off the co2 at night and come in the next morning (2 mornings in a row), the color has not changed from Green to Blue, as it did with my previous setups. My only guess is that the EXT5000 so efficiently dissolves co2 into the water, and since i am doing very little surface agitation, that most of the co2 I inject throughout the day stays disolved in the water over night. I dont know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, since I then turn on the co2 in the morning again, will be levels keep stacking up on the previous day until I have way too much co2?

I also thought I might need to change the indicator solution in my drop checker, but I looked up some older posts, and it seems I should only have to change this once a month, and it's only been like a week. Post here. (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2248095&postcount=5)

Any thoughts?

geekpryde

04-21-2010, 8:47 AM

Looks good. Give it a few weeks and I'll bet it's going to look real sharp. Keep posting pics. it's fun watching things grow out.

Thank you so much. :D I think I will take a FTS per day, and then after maybe 15 days, posts them all in one large post so we all can see how fast (or slow) they grow, change, die, etc.

JimL

04-21-2010, 8:58 AM

I also thought I might need to change the indicator solution in my drop checker, but I looked up some older posts, and it seems I should only have to change this once a month, and it's only been like a week. Post here. (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2248095&postcount=5)

Any thoughts?

I change mine once a month. Works for me.

geekpryde

04-21-2010, 9:00 AM

I want to avoid having snails in this tank if I can help it, but is that even realistic? To have a really nice, mostly algae free, and most detritus free tank, should I get snails now? If so, which kinds do you recommend. Please only reply if you have actual experience with said snails.

geekpryde

04-21-2010, 9:38 AM

Okay, another question about hardware.

Here you see pictured a Hamilton Tech Dual Timer. It actually did come with instructions, and I managed to program the current time, and the custom on/off schedule I want for the lights and co2. Build quality seems very good. I am charging it up now for two hours before use, per the instructions. The timer has a right and left female power receptacle and a male grounded plug on the back.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2484.JPG

Here's the question: The timer was sold to me as a “dual” timer and it’s called a “dual” time, but from what I can gather from the instructions you cannot set up independent on/off schedules for the left and right receptacles, which I what I thought was meant by dual. Meaning, if you want your co2 to come on an hour before the lights, and have it plugged into the right side, can the right be independently come on before power is applied to the left receptacle? I guess “dual” in this case means I can hook up things to the time, but that they must come on and off at the same time?

No big deal is they are not independently controlled, but if you have one of these little guys and KNOW I am being stupid, please tell me how to do it.

http://www.mailings-unlimited.com/files_to_share/DSC_2485.JPG

moi-eater

04-21-2010, 9:54 AM

geekpryde

04-21-2010, 10:04 AM

I think the sixth bullet on the front of the package answers your question. :p

Kidding aside, I think most multiple outlet timers turn on/off all of their outlets together. Individually timed outlets is a very nice thing to have.

:raspberry: Yeah, I guess had I read that 6th bullet point before I bought, I would not have had unrealistic expectations. I dont think I will bother to buy another one, lights and co2 on/off at the same time should be fine, but I hear really anal people turn on co2 several hours prior to lights. I guess I am only slightly anal. :lol2:

geekpryde

04-21-2010, 10:06 AM

regarding my post about snails, I have found a variety of links about the benefits of snails, it would seem MTS are a good option. All the posts and off-site links seem to suggest I will get snail one way or the other. I guess my question becomes, should I actively get (purchase) a certain kind of snail, or just wait the months it may take to get an unknown snail population in the tank by accident?

Incidentally, as far as I can tell, my plants were 100% snail free on arrival yesturday.

Here is just one of the links I found. (http://www.yamatogreen.com/MalaysianTrumpetSnails.htm)

Squawkbert

04-21-2010, 10:38 AM

Quick double check on CO2 levels... toward the end of the photoperiod (after CO2 has been on for several hours - shortly before you leave work), pull a cup of water from the tank. Do a pH test on it, note reading, retest another sample from the same cup the next morning. If you *had* about 30ppm CO2 in the water at the end of the day and this has dropped overnight to the 3ppm that is typical of standing water at atmospheric equilibrium, your morning pH should be up about 1 full unit. If it only goes up 0.5 unit, you only had about 15ppm CO2 before. If it doesn't move, it doesn't mean you have no CO2 variation, it means your tank's buffering capacity if high (high GH and/or KH) and that this test won't work for your tank.

If you're going to have CO2 dosage problems, it's best to deliver too little as too much can kill your fish. Drop checkers need to be very clean as the 4dKH solution used in them has pretty low buffering capacity. Any soap or other residue can result in unwanted buffering capacity within the test chamber thus rendering results inaccurate. When in doubt, clean it out thoroughly, rinse it w/ lots of DI or RO water, rinse it a time or three w/ a little of your 4dKH solution, then fill it and add your pH indicator drops.

You need not repeat this procedure unless your reagent fades (place drop checker low or in a shaded region of the tank to prolong reagent life as it is photosensitive) or gets contaminated (yes, snails may investigate the interior of your dropchecker and yes, they do get overturned now and then).