Sum of all Fish Tranquility!

[JamisonBWolsh]

My Tinfoils were going CRAZY when I turned the lights on in the morning, see here is an idea.. a NIGHTLITE!!!

OK... Here is some research on the Miracle BEAM L.E.D.S.

here is the link companies: http://miraclebeam.com/hilite.asp

Some people talking about it:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF8&threadm=k%25pt8.15642%24de1.735092%40news3.calgary .shaw.ca&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-%208%26oe%3DUTF8%26q%3Dmiracle%2Bbeam%26btnG%3DGoo gle<br%20/>%2BSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Drec.aquaria.*

Basically it got Rave reviews from those people.
It costs $24.95 at bigalsonline and petwarehouse as well...
and each additional light is 6.99
I cant find any articles on the net on these lights. Before buying it, I would have liked to get more info on the LED's, but cant find much out there. PINBALLQUEENS mothers tank has one and she says her mother (and fish) love this device. So I think I will buy it..
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Here is a link of one of their new products.. I guess when you want a DISCO feel to your fish.
http://miraclebeam.com/aquahome.asp

Here is the link to their LAZER Lights: Many claims that I think is misinformation:
http://miraclebeam.com/aqualas.asp
You got to check out their claims...you will get a laugh.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An iteresting night lite setup (not miracle beam)
http://www.beingseen.com/
Im not going to use this method.
__________________________________________________ _

[JamisonBWolsh]

here is another link:

http://www.miraclebeam.com/fishzine.asp

[pinballqueen]

It looks like all of those links are from the company's advertising/information site. You might try doing a google search for LED aquarium lights to see what it brings up and give you a broader research base.

www.google.com

[JamisonBWolsh]

Originally posted by pinballqueen
It looks like all of those links are from the company's advertising/information site. You might try doing a google search for LED aquarium lights to see what it brings up and give you a broader research base.

www.google.com

Yea.. not much on GOOGLE about it. Just the second link in my first statement. I never heard anything bad about it and you said your moms fish LOVE it..

[pinballqueen]

The only problem I've seen with these things is that once the bulb goes, you're out 8 bucks to buy a new light, socket, casing, bulb and all. I'm pretty sure the bulbs are sealed in there permanently. It takes about a year for them to go, though.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Im not sure about "real life experience", but the miracle beam homepage says each light lasts for 25000 hours (more than 3 years in ON all the time). If this is true or not? whose to say? I would buy any replacement or additonal modules (led lights) at big als for 6.99 each.


But then again, check out this webpage and see what they claim as fact: http://miraclebeam.com/aqualas.asp

Longer fish life span
kills bacteria
increase incubation for the fry eggs and growth rate
increases fishes color.
Increase disease resistance

could that be true with the lazers? dont know...but Im getting the led's

[pinballqueen]

The line about lazer lights is bs. The life of the bulbs is a little exaggerated, I think. They are, after all, trying to sell this thing to you.... The lifespan of a regular lightbulb that goes in a lamp is advertised on the bulb as 1000 hours. Please...how many bulbs have you seen last that long.

On the plus side, it does take the led's at least a year of 24/7 use to blow out. I think certain colors will go first...the green was the first to go in Mom's tank, and the amber and blue are still going just fine. If this is going in a tank to simulate moonlight, go with the blue. If you want it to keep your fish from going nuts when the lights go on, get the amber. It works more like a flood light, and it is more obvious as "bright" rather than just a muted color on light-colored decoration. They put off about the same amount of light as the led on your tv remote, regardless, but the amber is at a slower wavelength, so it has a less focused beam, much more scattered out. Also, be ready for a shock at how much suspended material is in your tank. That's what picks up the light in the first place, otherwise it would shine like a laser and just strike the gravel, leaving a little round "stage spot". The individual grains of floating material are responsible for making your tank look brighter (scary, huh).

Mandy, former theatre-lighter....

[JamisonBWolsh]

Thanks Pinball Queen:

Im going to pick it up at walmart (great return policy). I would save almost 10 dollars if I buy from Bigalsonline or petwarehouse.... but since its is the holidays, it will take forever to get here. I would get the amber from big als. So you would go with the amber light? ok..thanks! I know it comes with the blue and the green light.

Ps. Can I get a hotel discount? :)

PPS.. why dont you get one?

[pinballqueen]

If you remind me who you are when you reserve, maybe....

As far as the lights in my tank, I've got my big one broken down at the moment due to lack of space, and my little ten gallon would look silly with all those wires in it. It has a sand bottom and sparse decoration (mostly crystals, I'm a geology nut), so I wouldn't be able to hide the hardware to my satisfaction. Plus, I'm broke....a 30 dollar investment in the aquarium seems a little trivial right now, since I've gotta save up about 2 grand for when the baby gets here so I can afford maternity leave....

[Argento13]

why not just turn on the room light before switching on the aquarium light??

[Anton Wernher]

Remember that leds are not the same as your normal light bulbs as they do not heat up filament to produce light. LED's are diodes, light emiting diodes :). Diodes restrict current flow basicly to one direction. What makes LEDs neat is that light is produced as current flows through them. Basicly LEDs are made with two types of semiconductor material. One that has some extra electrons and another that is lacking. When the electron is pushed acrossed from the donor to the recieving material a photon of light is produced. So as you can see they operate quite a bit differently than a normal incadescent bulb... and a long life is not uncommon.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Argent: Well, cause Im sleeping in the same room!




Anyway, Im going to try the miracle beam Hi lite system. Bought it from Walmart for 24.95 (great deal, when big als sells it for the same price) Petco wanted 34.95 for the same one!!! Walmart has a 90 day return policy so....

heres the clincher though. Im not into the Lazer lights, but petco wanted 45 dollars for the lazer system and I just read on the back of my 24.95 hi lite module that it accepts Lazer modules...interesting. If you want the Lazer lights, Buy the Hi lite system and save $$$. I will repost tommorrow with the results..

[pinballqueen]

No, a long life isn't uncommon for an led light, however, based on personal experience with a little help from other exaggerated claims on the website, I think over 3 years non-stop would be a bit too much to expect from these lights. A year or so, not bad. I'm not saying the lights are bad at all, in fact, quite the opposite. I have seen them in operation, and I think they're great. Just not quite as long a life as what they say they have. (After all, that estimate is based on completely stable electricity over the entire life of the diodes, no surges, no outages. Those factors will shorten the life of any electronic device.)

[JamisonBWolsh]

Originally posted by Anton Wernher
Remember that leds are not the same as your normal light bulbs as they do not heat up filament to produce light. LED's are diodes, light emiting diodes :). Diodes restrict current flow basicly to one direction. What makes LEDs neat is that light is produced as current flows through them. Basicly LEDs are made with two types of semiconductor material. One that has some extra electrons and another that is lacking. When the electron is pushed acrossed from the donor to the recieving material a photon of light is produced. So as you can see they operate quite a bit differently than a normal incadescent bulb... and a long life is not uncommon.

Thanks for that helpfull info!!! what do you think of these "new" devices?

[JamisonBWolsh]

So pinball...You mentioned earlier that the blue and the green lights are to dim and try amber.... Do you think this system will ease the craziness from the tinfoils?

Amber is orange or yellow?...sorry..forgot my art class... And would this color improve the tinfoils behavior. That would be great, but i dont want to add TOO much light for my nocturnal fish..

[pinballqueen]

Try it with what comes in the box. If it's not noticeable, go for something brighter, like the amber (the color of a turn-signal on a car). If it's too bright for you to sleep at night it won't do you any good, now will it?

Chances are that if you can live with it, your fish will be fine. The nocturnal fish don't like the amber quite as much because it's brighter, and mormyrids don't like the green for some reason, maybe their eyes are sensitive to that part of the spectrum? They won't go near into the light-path of the greens... However, one big thing to keep in mind: make sure none of the lights are pointed in such a way to where they'll shine toward your bed, or you'll wake up feeling like you've been caught in a laser-sight...

Did I mention the connector cables for those float? You'll need to bury them pretty thoroughly if you put the lights on the bottom of the tank instead of shining them down off the top....

[JamisonBWolsh]

The light doesnt bother me.. Its if I turned a desk light on..that would wake me up...but fish lights are fine. The only reason I ask about brightness is for the nocturnal fish. So the nocturnal fish wont like the Amber color. The elephant nose wont like the green light. Im NOT going to get the Purple color or yellow color. So I can get BLUE Leds then. I just hope adding this will improve the attitude of my tinfoils in the morning. The things we do for our pets.... I guess it will also improve the "looks" of my tank too :)

[JamisonBWolsh]

Ok..I added the lights. one blue and one green light shining on the bubbles. Wow..tinfoils didnt like me adding them.. but i did. Turned off ALL my lights in my room (pitch black) and turned on the LED's. Got to say I like the blue one ALOT. I think I will get 2 more blue ones for my 60 gallon tank and one for my 20 gallon (there is 5 slots that you can add lights in the main compartment). The green one is ???..its ok I guess... I just cant see using a purple, yellow, or that DISCO light... Now, once my lights go off at 9pm, we will see the true actions of the fish. Also, in the morning, we will see the actions of the tinfoils.. I hope it all goes well....

Pinball..Does your mom highlight the back wall of the tank, or does it shine on something inside the tank?

[Anton Wernher]

LEDs have been around for quite some time... Until the end of 2001 however you could really only find infrared, red, blue, and green leds. Personally I love the things(have never used them in my fish tank however).. you should see my led flashlight collection.

[pinballqueen]

she has one shining from the top-back onto her driftwood (amber), one shining from the bottom center onto the same piece of driftwood in a different place as well as the bubble curtain (green), and one one the bottom right shining on both the bubble curtain and the big chunk of white coral in the center (blue-looks great on the white coral). The dolphin avoids the middle of the tank at night due to the green, but the overall effect is really neat.

[slipknottin]

There is alot of push to develop LEDs into the lighting of the future for both low light and high light situations.

Recently the process to make blue LEDs has been figured out, and many are starting to work on projects.

LEDs offer quite large advantages over other forms of lights, less heat, longer life, no spectrum shift, and no heat means no wasted electricity. Almost all of the electricity used actually comes out as light.

[slipknottin]

Heres the link I was looking for:

http://www.servangle.net/reef/led/

[Anton Wernher]

slip thanks for the link... *thinks about starting his lighting project over*

[JamisonBWolsh]

NIce.. but the Miracle Beams works better I think..as a "nightlight"

[slipknottin]

your welcome Anton- there have been pushes to use "Xenon" lighting in aquariums too, but last i heard those projects died. Dont really know why.. :confused:

[JamisonBWolsh]

I dont see how you can use it as a main lighting source...Not much light...

[Anton Wernher]

jamison,
There have been some great advances in high output leds in the past year... You would be suprised at how much light you can get out of them now.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Maybe they are using different LED's then the Miracle Beams use.
Of course, I havent seen the tank without the light off yet..

[slipknottin]

In the link he says that it would take at least 680 LEDs for 4 ft. long, 2 ft deep reef aquarium.

Thats a lot of LEDs, but the fact that he got a coral to grow shows definate future possibilities.

[JamisonBWolsh]

680 leds? sounds like to much work for a light source. I think the strip light is here to stay. They are good for nightlights though :)

[slipknottin]

Once someone figures out how to package them in simple little kits were going to see a lot of LED lit tanks, or at least inreef tank.

Most of the reefers cant use strip lights as they dont provide enough light to sustain their animals, so there is a definate push to find new types of lighting that doesnt put out as much heat.

[Richer]

LED lighting definately has a good future. The new high output LEDs coming out now are incredible. In the computer modding hobby, lighting the insides of a computer is probably one of the most basic mods (other than a side window). That has evolved from a normal car neon light, to cold cathods, and it is now moving onto super bright LEDs. Although the LEDs aren't as bright as a cold cathod, it is undoubtably brighter than a neon light... which says something. I bought myself a LED lit computer fan... that thing produced at least 2-3x more light than my neon light did. On top of that, they use very little energy, and don't heat up to the extent that fluorescent/incandescent lights do. Although its still rather far off, LEDs have great potential to replace lighting as we know it.

-Richer

[JamisonBWolsh]

First impressions: Ok

1.) Green light HAS to be replaced by a BLUE light.

2.) I thought during the night Tinfoils are inactive? I am finding them to be more active in fact, and less schooling then during the day.

3.) Skunk cories are actually MOVING. Generally, they just sit there in the corner...

4.) my 8 inch Yellow spot pleco is out swimming with everyone.
5.) NIce Fish shadows on my carpet and walls...

Seriously, isnt this the time where the day fish rest and the night fish come out? None of my day fish are resting...
when I say "rest" I mean frozen in one place not moving.
It could be caused by the extra light, I never took notice of the tank when I turned the lights off.

I am only using 2 LEDS.... I wonder if its to much light? So far, I do recommend them. You will notice different behaviors in your fish. No w the true test will come in the morning. Will they be skittish or not? stay tuned..

[JamisonBWolsh]

The experiment was a SUCCESS!!! After only using 2 miracle Beam leds in my tank, the albino tinfoils did not FREAK out when the morning tank light came on. They did school tightly for a minute or 2, but they did not RAM everything in the tank. Let me also mention that this is the first morning I tried this, so I will keep track if this behavior is the norm each morning. I even stood CLOSE to the tank with no ill consequences. Without the MIRACLE beam, they would have acted crazy.


AS of now, I believe these MIracle beam (HI-LITE Led's) gave my tanks a WHOLE new life. I can now watch my fish after darkfall and enjoy the behaviors of my nocturnal fish and the change of behavior of my day fish. To anyone Interested: BUY IT! its well worth the price of $24.95 at walmart.

I also LOVE the shadows my fish make on the carpet and walls.
This product is almost a MUST have for all aquariums. I would stick with the blue colors for the natural look..but they also sell Green, yellow, amber and purple. You can also use the Lazer module (light) in the Hi lite system if you want.


I will update this thread in a weeks time and let you know if this behavior is consistent.

[JamisonBWolsh]

OK.. second night.
Even though this works.. I turned off the green light and only used one blue light. The reason: the elephant nose did not really leave the one side of the tank during the night (same thing happened with pinballqueens moms elephant nose).

Result:

with only the one blue light... the Tinfoils were back to their old behavior of "FREAKKING OUT"

What am I going to do.

I am going to add 2 more LED blue lights to the 60 gallon.
Maybe this will increase the light during the night and not freak the out.


On a side note:
On my 20 gallon tank, I added one blue LED. I never seen ONE petricola catfish come out of the 10 I have. So the blue light did not "bring them out" during the night or morning.

[Richer]

Blue light doesn't bring out nocturnal fish, its red light that does that. Blue light has a short enough wavelength so that it can penetrate the water deeper than red light. Theortically, fish can see blue light well enough to tell that the lights are on. Whereas with red light, the wave length is long enough so that it doesn't really penetrate the water enough for the fish to see. So even though we can see the red light, they cannot, and so they think its nighttime. More info here (http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/insomniac.shtml).

-Richer

[JamisonBWolsh]

Yes. thats what i read in MANY places..that red light is not seen by most fish. However, I also read that several poeple do use blue light also. I have read MANY reports from people that have used this color to bring the nocturnal fish out and works. It simulates moonlight and is much more pleasing to the eye then red light is.

[Argento13]

This "nightlight" idea for fish just may be the best gimmick since the bio wheel. Does anyone really think that moonlight has much effect on river fish? And even if it does manage to reach the fish (which i highly doubt), how many aquarium fish that we own are wild caught? Do you think fish breeders have this simulated moonlight on their fry tanks? Are fish startled by the aquarium light being turned on while in pitch dark? Of course they are, just as they are startled if the aquarium light is the last one turned off at night. And, what happens when there is no moon? Just dont turn it on? Puleez.

[JamisonBWolsh]

1.) bio wheel is not a Gimmick.
2.) The miracle beam is a gimmick if you use it for your own pleasure. However, that is NOT MY INTENTION. Fish does NOT need a nightlight. of course they dont. If you read this thread..which you may not have, the nightlight is used so they wont get PARANOID in the morning and act CRAZY.

And my experiment is working so far. The reason why I am asking these questions, is because I dont want TOO much light entering my tank during the night (they do need their sleep).

So, in my opinion, this is not a Gimmick, yet a NEEDED addition to any tank.
1.)lowers the stress the fish feels in the morning.
2.) you get to view their behavior at night, when normally you cant witness it. IN total, I spent 24.95 on the Hi-Lite system and 18.00 in 2 additional LEDS. Is it worth it..YES
Is this a "GIMMICK" NO WAY!

PS. Some fish do breed according to the moon phases. This is ESPECIALLY true to many CORALS in saltwater.

[Argento13]

Im sure approaching your aquarium in the dark and turning on the strip light does make them paranoid. As stated, turn on the room light before lighting the tank.
Bio Wheel:
I guess we are to believe the bacteria grows on this wheel alone? And without it we will not have a good biological filter? Not to mention the trouble with the wheel. If you wish to spend your money on these products that is your choice. As for fish breeding by the sign of the moon, i do believe the moon effects many things but a light is not needed to help the magnetic fields it produces.

[slipknottin]

gimmick- An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance; a gadget

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by Argento13

I guess we are to believe the bacteria grows on this wheel alone? And without it we will not have a good biological filter? Not to mention the trouble with the wheel.

they never claimed you wouldnt without the wheel. The wheel does something no other filters do, seperates mechanical and biological filtration. It gives you the ability to replace all filter cartridges without upsetting your biological balance.

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by Argento13
As for fish breeding by the sign of the moon, i do believe the moon effects many things but a light is not needed to help the magnetic fields it produces.

the moon light is what triggers spawing in most corals and possibly some fish. Not a magnetic field.

[Harry Tolen]

Argento13 certainly has a point about turning on the room light (or allowing another indirect light source to illuminate the tank before turning on the strip light). Skittishness in fish is usually the result of either bright and abrupt illumination, and/or a bacterial infection due to poor water quality, and/or too small a swimming space.

[JamisonBWolsh]

Ok.. third morning. I added another blue LED to my miracle stystem. After turning the strip light on this morning, the tinfoils did school togethor, but they didnt go spastic throughout the tank that they normally would have. As of today, the experiment of adding is successful. I will continue to update this thread as the day continue.

ON a side note, I did add a RED led to the 20 gallon. With the red light on, I did not see one petricola catfish swimming around the tank at all, same thing when I add the blue led. I am beginning to wonder if they just like to stay under the pile of rocks thats on top of 5 one foot PVC white tubes with one inch space between them. Perhaps they just like this "maze?"

[Serrateeth_2002]

Take lessons from clown loaches,they would stay in large dark places,they will move out more often as they get used or grow larger,going out in bright lights is totally not an instinct of a noctunal fish,more like they love the hiding place and never want to come out of the "nightclub"

[125gJoe]

I have 5 of those Hi Lites at the bottom of my aquarium. They don't light up things much at all. However, they did look best on top pointing down from the center glass support.

[Hatter]

I think a $7 dimmer switch would have solved your problem. Gradually brightening the room to simulate the sunrise before turing on the tank light works fine for me...just like nature.

[Sumpin'fishy]

Jamison, I think you have an interesting idea for your tank. The only point I would dissagree on is that the LED's are NOT a "needed addition to any tank" as you said. I do agree that you have facilitated ONE way to lower their morning stress levels. You also have added benefits of looking at your fish in the dark at night. I personally feel that their are enough areas of the amazon and other natural habitats in which there is too much tree cover to allow much if any moonlight into the water. I'm sure that there ARE areas of high moonlight sometimes, though. Personally, if I caught a wild fish, I would research the exact area I caught it at and try to match that little niche of the wild to meet it's needs in a tank.

In summary, I think you have a fine and interesting solution to your room's situation of no light getting to the tank before you turn on the lights. Most of our tanks (unless in the basement) have sufficient light reach the tank that the fish do not over-react to the strip lights coming on.

I personally have my timers set to come on at 9 am and turn off at midnight. I do this so that they gradually get light to the room in the mornings, and I like to watch them late at night sometimes. They are in the dining room, so I don't keep that light on all night. They do get abrupt darkness when midnight hits, but I've never seen this freek them out a bit. They seem to be very used to and comfortable with the setup. This is not the most "realistic" light setup, I agree, but my fish do not jump around unless I bang the stand they are on, for some reason :eek: Man, I hate when I accidentally do that!

At any rate, I think the simplest solution for those who can't get light to their tank before turning on the tank lights is to invest in a timer on a lamp across the room, as I mentioned near the beginning of this thread. I'm really glad you are doing this research on the LED's and posting your results, though! Now we can all benefit!

[jbcwilli]

Just a side note to the LED thread. LED's are NOT lasers or lazers (as it has been spelled here a few times. The light they emit is not coherent as is the light from a laser, and cannot burn a hole in the bottom of your tanl, or injure anyone's (or any fishes') eyes.

[pinballqueen]

Maybe not physically burn someone's eyes, but they sure can be irritating if you have the diode pointed directly at you...

Incidentally, I got a set for Christmas...they look cool shining through my quartz crystal in the tank...has a "glowing rock" effect...

Great look for a minimal tank, if you can hide the wires right....

[JamisonBWolsh]

Sumpin'fishy: Yes, to have a light turn on in the room first, then the strip light comes on is the IDEAL situation. However, since I wake up at 5:30 am and my fish wake up at 5:27am, there is no way Im going to wake up earlier by another light turning on in my bedroom. But that would be the best situation.

80GJoe: you have 5 LEDS? what colors are they? I have them shinning through the tank glass top to the bottom of the tank. I have 2 blue ones in the 60 gallon tank as of now.


Experiment those far:

60 gallon: This morning (with 2 blue LEDS) the strip light turned on and the tinfoils did pace fast from one side of the tank to the otherside MANY TIMES (Not hitting anything though). The first experiment went well with the green led, but what I am going to try is to add another BLUE LED to my 60 gallon to total 3 blue LEDs. I would love to add the green led (because that setup proved successful), but my elephant nose doesnt like that, so off to buy another BLUE LED. Walmart sold out of that color, so Im going to have to find another place that sells them or order them off of bigals online. So the next update may take a week.

20 gallon:
Another night using the Red led. Another FAILURE. They did not come out 1 hour after turning off the lights and when I woke up at 5:30 am, they were still not out. so Red and blue leds both do not work. And i could assume the other colors would not work as well (orange, yellow, purple and green).
The 3 petricolas in 60 gallon DOES come out when the blue LED is on. Why the 10 1-2inch petricolas does not come out? who knows? Perhaps Half the tank has pipes and Rocks filled half way
up the tank and they LOVE their maze's and rock homes. But, as of now...the cause of them hiding all the time? Dont know. No aggressive fish and the water quality is good. Even if the tank is small, they should still swim to the open areas and all over the inside of the tank.

[pinballqueen]

Hey Jamison, maybe you might try having the fish lights timed to come on at 5:45....

Also, you don't have the led's placed directly in your tank? They look best if they're actually underwater....

[JamisonBWolsh]

I tried having the LEDS inside the tank (in the water) pointing down, but I dindt like:
1.) I didnt like the "look" of a bright light shinning inside the tank at night (hurts my eyes).
2.) I think the fish wouldnt like looking up and going "blind" from the bright LED light.

By placing the led on the glass shinning through the top glass and top water, you do lose some of the intensity of the LED, but it looks more natural. As a viewer, I dont like the bright LEDS hurting my eyes and the fish wont go "blind" by looking up.

Looks natural this way.

If you have the LEDS on the bottom, well thats a whole bucket of worms with the wires and space. Just think if a big fish gets caught in a wire? they will drag it all over the tank! To much trouble for me....

Someone mentioned about the amazon: I dont think fish need ANY LIGHT at night. They are fine. The ONLY fish that I have a problem is the Dist. affinis and the Tinfoils. Everyone else seems fine with the sudden light change.

PS: when I say "hurting...or BLIND" I dont mean literally.. I mean, If you look at a lightbulb- it doesnt hurt you, but it "annoys" yuor eyes...

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by JamisonBWolsh

80GJoe: you have 5 LEDS? what colors are they? I have them shinning through the tank glass top to the bottom of the tank. I have 2 blue ones in the 60 gallon tank as of now. We have blue green and orange lights (5 total).
The wires are buried deep in the Onyx sand. None of my fish will dig them up; also, there's a large chunk of driftwood on top of the wires.