I got albino bristlenose eggs !!

[kianna]

I noticed this evening that my male wouldn't come out of his cave tonight for dinner so I got a flashlight and shined it in there and saw a bunch of orangey colored eggs that he was tending to. I'm thinking that they were laid in the last 36 hours.

Anyway its a 55gal bare bottom tank with wood and artifical plants and a whole lot of guppies. I never intended on breeding BN but instead have been working with this strain of guppies I have and added this young BN pair from another tank. I'd like to raise the BN fry but was worried that the guppies might eat them.

So my question is will the BN fry be ok with the guppies?

[ESOXLUCIOUSS]

They will not eat the fry, no way, they will grow really fast, lost of cucumber , courgette and then peas when they get older, lots of water changes and watch them grow, congrats..

[pinkertd]

If you leave the father undisturbed to tend to the fry, he should keep them in the cave long enough for them to get a teensy bit bigger. Sometimes some fry will accidentally get out of the cave ahead of time and I've witnessed an ember tetra.....which is a small fish......go GULP! Gone with one slurp! Newly hatched pleco fry are a lot smaller than you imagine they will be.

[TwoHobbies]

I agree with Pinkertd. I only have tetras, and rainbows in my community tank and actually think they all eat some. BN plecos are very small when they start free swimming. You will need to remove them quickly. Don't guppies eat there own young?

[kianna]

Well I probably have a 50/50 chance the fry could get eaten (hopefully not). These gupppies seem to have gotten use to their babies in the tank but I still think they eat some here and there. So I guess we'll see! So far dads doing a good job.

Anyway did some tank maintenance today and decided to try and get some pics. The pics aren't that great ( I was trying to hold this heavy camera/flash/macro lens with one hand and pocket flash light with the other).

Heres papa. He's just over a year old and this is his first spawn.


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....and heres the eggs. Doesn't look to be too many (not that I know how many theres suppose to be...lol).

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I'll keep ya posted how their doing with pics of fry etc (that is if the guppies don't eat them).

[cellodaisy]

Congrats!

[mjordan29]

i would say you have a good 20 eggs there. at least...

[fish-n-chips]

Congrats and good luck with your babies:woot:
I'll be looking forward to your updates:popcorn:

[kianna]

Yesterday I did a 30% w/c in anticipation of fry soon. From readings I've done the eggs should hatch in approx. 5 days and its been about that.

I also installed ATI filter max III prefilters over the 2 AC 110 intakes that are on the tank. I got these at kensfish.com and just love them
( http://www.kensfish.com/atipondandprefilters.html ). They are a course sponge and don't clog as easily as some of the other sponges I've used in the past.

This morning I'm having my morning coffee and notice that papa is staying more toward the entrance of the cave then he had been. Usually he's way back in there. The lights are off on the tank so I get a flash light and shine in there and it looks like they're starting to hatch. It looks like the egg cluster is wiggling kind of like a moving ant pile :) I don't think all have hatched yet though cuz I can still see some eggs. Boy they ARE tiny! Hopefully papa keeps them in there for a while or else I can see them being a snack for the guppies.

Anyway I'll see if I can get some pics later on today. :dance:

[kianna]

OK here are the pics of them hatching. They look like eggs with tails !


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[pinkertd]

Looking good! See how tiny they really are!

[MsGardeness]

That's awesome - congratulations Kianna!!!

[starfishplus]

I just had some to hatch and i had moved them to a tank by there self .this was there 2nd time to lay at first i did not get them out of the tank in time. And YES guppies do eat them, so do platies. my whole spawn was eat as i tryed to move the orn they were in and the game out with the water and all the fish started eatting of the bottom of the tank .i did not even see them.but so far this time i have 9 about 3 weeks old they grow fast .And i had alot of help from Debbie (PINK) on these. and thanks by the way.

[kianna]

So far so good! Papa is still in the cave with them and they are starting to look a bit less like an egg with a tail. I’ll say they are officially 1 day old (one day after hatching that is) :woot:

I’ve decided to keep the lights off most of the time to keep things calmer in the tank. When the lights are on the guppies are all over the tank and I noticed that papa is more towards the opening of the cave doing a whole lot of tail shaking. I noticed one time a guppy got too close to the opening and he did a tail swat and slammed that guppy into the glass. I was shocked! With the lights out the guppies are calmer and stay more towards the top of the tank and papa seems a lot more relaxed.
Since I hadn’t planned on breeding BN I’m not prepared with another tank setup at this time. I know there’s a high probability that the guppies will eat them so my goal is to let papa keep them in the cave as long as possibly in order to give the fry a better chance of survival. If the guppies do eat them when they leave the cave I’ll consider another setup for any future spawns.
The thing is I had just told myself that I wasn’t gonna take on anymore “fishie projects” this spring and summer. I’ve bred my Blue Rams (that was a lot of work), bred some long finned white clouds, got mystery snails coming out my ears and then started working with several strains of guppies. I was kind of wanting to take a break and enjoy the outdoors more during the nice weather season. I guess my BN’s weren’t listening when I was telling myself all this. :) So for now I’ll just provide the best conditions that I can at the moment and let nature take its course from there.

So……..let’s assume the guppies don’t eat them when they leave the cave…..what should I start out feeding them? The guppies seem to stay away from any fresh vegetables I put in there so I was thinking zucchini and/or lettuce. For the adults I do a lot of zucchini (not blanched—seems to soften in time and blanched is messy). Is zucchini ok? Should it be blanched? Or is maybe romaine lettuce better? I do plan on feeding other things but any FISHIE FOOD will be quickly consumed by everyone and thought maybe keeping vegetables in there would give them a constant supply of something to munch on.
Anyway I’ll give them another day or two and I’ll post some more pics of their growth progression. Thanks everyone for your input!

[TwoHobbies]

Great pictures kianna, and good luck.

[pinkertd]

You will have to blanch the zucchini for months to come yet. The babies won't be able to eat it unblanched until they are much older and larger. I do lots of blanched zucchini, romaine lettuce....you have to leave it until it gets real soft, then they're all over it, leaving nothing but a lettuce skeleton.....algae wafers and pellets. If there's not enough biolfilm and algae in the tank to keep all of them well fed all day, every day, you'll need to supplement their diet. They need to eat just about 24/7. It's "the nature of the beast" so to speak.

And as for papa tail swatting your guppy into the glass....beware, my males have killed bumbling cories in the dark of the tank at night when the cory stumbled into the cave opening very innocently. Any fish that gets to near the cave entrance will get swatted very, very hard.....and may get killed.

[fish-n-chips]

Congrats and good luck!!!

[countrychick]

Very neat

[ESOXLUCIOUSS]

Sorry Deb, ur right. My bns only venture out when they are let by daddy, the newly hatched guys are prey for anything and everything.
Great pics Kianna, lovely looking plec

[kianna]

Here's some pics of the babies as of this morning. They're now 48 hours old (hatched). Boy they are growing fast and looking more and more like a BN. Just wish I could get better/clearer shots. With the small opening to the cave, trying to hold a flashlight and of course papa in the way....I'm having a difficult time. Anyway I think you can still see their growth. :thumbsup:


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[pinkertd]

You did good Kianna!

[Tmobo]

Sweet thread. That's an amazing growth rate.
Good luck with them.

[ESOXLUCIOUSS]

cool pictures

[kianna]

Thanks everyone for helping me along the way.

OK day 3- A bit bigger and all over the cave now. Papa keeps trying to put them back in a pile. I counted about 30 !


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[kianna]

So feeding them--It's agreed that there should be plenty of food (included blanched zucchini/romaine lettuce) when they venture out of the cave!

Since my goal is to keep them in the cave as long as possible to gain size before venturing out what about using an eye dropper to gently squirt some pre soak food in there for them in a couple of days? By then the egg sack that they're currently feeding off should be gone. I read somewhere that someone else had done this and was wondering what everyone here thought of that idea. I'd have to do it gently cuz if the guppies catch wind of food in the tank...they'll be trying to get in there :22_yikes: Anyone else tried this?

[kianna]

Day 4---Still in the cave and looking much bigger! At least to me. I'm feeling more confident that they'll be ok with the guppies BUT not totally assured yet!

Oh and I did try soaking a piece of an algae wafer in some tank water and then squirted a little bit in the cave. At first I thought OH NO I SHOULDN"T HAVE DONE THAT ! Even the small bit I did seemed like alot and I was afraid of food sitting around in there. Anyway I kept checking in there and papa was eating some and I felt better. An hour later I checked in there and there was only 1 little piece of algae wafer that I few babies were attacking like crazy. So it seemed to work ok! :) Just got to remeber to do tiny tiny amount.


OK heres the pics of the babies from this morning:


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Aren't they cute!


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[kianna]

DAY 5-- I'm only gonna do these daily updates as long as they are still in the cave :)

First off....I turned the lights on this morning and 1 baby was out of the cave but near the cave. I looked for others but only saw this one.


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I followed him around for a while and saw lots of guppies checking him out, even giving him a peck or two but no one ate him....HOOOORAY! I also noticed a female guppy had some new babies during the night and they weren't getting eaten either. BTW the little BN fry is bigger than the newly born guppy fry.

The others are still in the cave but trying to get closer and closer to the opening when papa quickly shoes them back in. I did another little squirt of pre soaked algae wafer in the cave and the little guys were going crazy like they were gobbling it up. I did a much smaller amount this time though. I know this probably isn't necessary but I would still like them to stay in there and get as big as posssible.

Anyway here's a couple of pics of the ones in the cave.

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There's more back in there but papa was blocking them and then just as I finished these shots he shoed these guys back to the back of the cave.


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NOW......I have another tank with 3 brown BN's (2f+1m) in there by themselves. Here again the male didn't come out to eat so I looked in his cave and saw 2 piles of eggs. I think both females laid eggs in there. Was no one (fish) listening to me when I said I didn't want any new fishie projects this Spring/Summer? Clearly not!

Anyway here's a couple of pics of the parents. Oh and I'm not gonna photograph/follow this bunch through......LOL


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So at this point my question is at what age do you starting looking for homes these guys?

[petluvr]

WOW amazing photos, I wish mine would breed for me. I have some longfin calicos that I would LOVE to breed but they just aren't having it :)

[kianna]

WOW amazing photos, I wish mine would breed for me. I have some longfin calicos that I would LOVE to breed but they just aren't having it :)

Thanks..........oh longfin calicos.....those would be pretty!


Day 6- I can't believe how fast they have grown in just 6 days! Not anything like GBR I've breed. Just looking at Day 1 and Day 6 just amazes me. Anyway about 1/3 have left the cave now. So about 10 out and approx. 20 are still in the cave. Papa is now leaving the cave for about a minute at a time in search of food. These guys are so cute! I could watch them all day long.

The guppies have gotten use to them now and totally ignor them. I've seen them on the blanched zucchini already but not the romaine lettuce. They're just a hair shorter than 1/2" from head to tail.


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Here's one on the glass


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[Juice]

Soooo cute! I love babies! =]

[kianna]

Day 7-Everyone has flown the coop! Well more like left the cave....LOL

Papa still goes back there and checks but doesn't stay long. He must be pretty hungry by now. It looks all clean and barren now :(


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Heres a couple of pics of the babies...


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Pic were difficult to get today. THe light fixture is out and the tank has temporary lighting. Heres a link to my thread from yesterday on the lighting in case you haven't see it yet. .... http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224653


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Oh and the Brown BN's in the other tank that laid eggs shortly after these....well the male is kicking the eggs out of cave. I found these this morning right outside the cave opening. I looked inside and the eggs haven't hatched yet and he's still fanning them but there doesn't seem to be as many. Why is he doing this???


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[pinkertd]

Kianna - sometimes inexperienced dads will kick the eggs out. No one knows why. I think you posted that there was a double spawn in the cave. I read somewhere that if the father thinks there's too many for him to handle, he'll kick them out. I really don't know how true or untrue this is though. Sometimes It's just a matter that the cave needs to be set so that it is lower at the back end and higher at the front end which helps prevent the eggs from being accidentally kicked out by an overly ambitious fanning/cleaning papa pleco.

I had eggs get accidentally kicked out once. I'm not sure what was going on but suspect another female was trying to get in the cave and the male didn't want her coming in and in their flurry of activity, the eggs were bumped loose and out. I picked them up though and hatched them myself.

Also, if you're seeing considerably less now that initially, as the infertile ones begin to deteriorate, the dad eats them away from the fertile eggs. It's amazing how they know and they do this.

By the way, your pictures are awesome!!!

[huffmagx]

I LOVE this thread! The pictures are great and its fantastic to see the egg/hatching/rearing process of these so ugly they are cute pleco's.

I have some albino's too but so far mine have not spawned but I think the time is approaching so I am glad to have learned from your guy!! Your browns are beautiful also - I don't have any of those.....hint hint!

[dixienut]

wow this is great,.. love babies,..

[kianna]

Thanks everyone.....I'm really having fun doing this!



Kianna - sometimes inexperienced dads will kick the eggs out. No one knows why. I think you posted that there was a double spawn in the cave. I read somewhere that if the father thinks there's too many for him to handle, he'll kick them out. I really don't know how true or untrue this is though. Sometimes It's just a matter that the cave needs to be set so that it is lower at the back end and higher at the front end which helps prevent the eggs from being accidentally kicked out by an overly ambitious fanning/cleaning papa pleco.

I had eggs get accidentally kicked out once. I'm not sure what was going on but suspect another female was trying to get in the cave and the male didn't want her coming in and in their flurry of activity, the eggs were bumped loose and out. I picked them up though and hatched them myself.

Also, if you're seeing considerably less now that initially, as the infertile ones begin to deteriorate, the dad eats them away from the fertile eggs. It's amazing how they know and they do this.

By the way, your pictures are awesome!!!


I did some reading and found numerous possiblities as to why he (the Brown BN) was kicking the eggs out ie, water chemistry, fungus, not fertilized etc. and after ruling out each one I read that it could just have been as simple as me CONSTANTLY SHINING MY FLASHLIGHT IN THERE! I'm sure it could have been accidental or some other reason but me shining the light in there didn't help. This male seems alot more nervous than the other albino male. The albino male was more relaxed even though he defended his cave/babies and made appearances often. The Brown BN hasn't come out of the cave at all. Anyway its probably best if I don't shine my little flashlite in there :) and just let him be.


OK UPDATE:

The Brown BN eggs have hatched (yesterday). I still think 2 females laid eggs in the cave cuz even though he kicked some out there still seems to be alot more babies than the Albino BN's had. I'll take pictures of these guys once they leave the cave. Maintenance on this tank is going to be so much easier. It's a 20L with a AC 110 and much easier to do daily water changes on. Theres only the 3 BN's in there right now (2f+1m) but I can see that it'll get real crowded real fast! Anyway I'm currently waiting on a order from KENSFISH.COM for a prefilter for the filter intake (which I hope gets here real soon) and some earthworm & veggie sticks etc. being that I'm gonna have alot of little mouths to feed.


The albino BN's are doing good. I'll take more pics in a few days. I'm having to tweak the feeding some. The guppies want to eat EVERYTHING thats in there and the adult BN's hog the veggies. So I put a blanched pierce of romaine lettuce and each end of the 55g and 4 smaller pieces of blanched zucchini along the bottom so that the babies can always find something to eat. Anyway their bellies seem nice and round with long strings of poo so they must be getting their fair share.

Of course with more food theres more pooo therefore more water changes. Not as pleasant on a 55g. So right now I'm doing 50% every other day and rinsing the sponges in the 2 AC110 once a week (and boy have they been dirty). A 55g community tank would not have been my 1st choice of raising these guys!

[ESOXLUCIOUSS]

congrats , great pics by the way

[kianna]

Update: The babies are 15 days old now....yahhhhh! They're little eating machines...... let me tell you !!!!

Heres a pic of father and son....lol..... (well don't know that its not his daughter I guess).

Not a big difference in their growth in the last week but papa started hanging out in his cave again. :shakehead: Could it be time to start this all over again??? :rolleyes:



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Remember the Brown BN trio? Well their eggs finally hatched and the babies are 2 different colors. I've got albino's and browns.....about 50/50....I was shocked. I guess somewhere in their genes there is albino? Anyway they've just started leaving the cave....about 1/2 of them are out.


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So my best guess on a head count right now is 65 babies !!!!!!!!!!

[fish-n-chips]

Great pics Kianna. Glad to see the babies are eating well and growing.:thumbsup:

[pinkertd]

Sounds like things are going great! There is usually 4-5 weeks in between spawns with the same female. So I think you've got a little more time yet before another one. Often first spawns are smaller. Be prepared for 100+ eggs in subsequent spawns......every 5 weeks......do the math!:evil_lol:

[Rjb3]

Kianna, you're right, they are eating machines. That's one of the reasons I make my own food. Great pics. Keep up the good work.

[kianna]

Just a brief update-- The babies are about 30 days old and the parents have laid new eggs about 4-5 days ago. Actually the browns in the other tank also have their 2nd batch of eggs too. I can now see that I am going to over run with BN real quick.

Anyway heres some pics!


Some babies.....

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Papa.....

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Papa back in the cave.....lo


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[fish-n-chips]

That's great to see Kianna! Little guys are really growing up fast,eh? If they keep up at the pace they are you might have to give your females a break. Maybe a paid vacation to the amazon.

[Jugglo]

Nice! mine need to breed.

[Cerianthus]

Kianna,

Simply, Adorable!