Tapwater and Algae

[tackful]

I read that tapwater quality can posssibly cause film algae. Mine tests 7.2 ph, 5 gh, and 0.5 phosphate. If this is a possible cause, what might I do about it? Would rather not have to go the RO route. Thanks.

[J double R]

I read that tapwater quality can posssibly cause film algae. Mine tests 7.2 ph, 5 gh, and 0.5 phosphate. If this is a possible cause, what might I do about it? Would rather not have to go the RO route. Thanks.

tapwater won't directly cause algae - but things in it, such as phosphates, might. Are you just looking to prevent the algae? In that case, I wouldn't worry about it until you see a problem and can deduce that your tapwater's makeup is the cause.

[jpappy789]

I agree, no need to get into RO yet...most FW people don't even use them.

[tackful]

I actually have a bad case of green film algae. The glass need to be cleaned every day. Tank is 4 yrs old, pressurized co2, dry ferts, and about 2 watt/gal x 10 hrs.

[J double R]

what dry ferts do you use? If phosphates are the only thing in your tapwater that might be causing a nutrient imbalance, you should be able to adjust your dosing accordingly.

[jpappy789]

Sounds like it could be GDA (green dust algae). Any chance you can get a pic of it?

[tackful]

Had to wait a few days in order for it to cover the glass again. Here it is:

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Hmmm...are we sure that's not BGA? (Cyano bacteria) That stuff forms in nasty slimy films that "pearl", and can grow back really fast.

[J double R]

Hmmm...are we sure that's not BGA? (Cyano bacteria) That stuff forms in nasty slimy films that "pearl", and can grow back really fast.

I've never seen blue-green algae (BGA) that looked that bright green.

[The Plantman]

I read that tapwater quality can posssibly cause film algae. Mine tests 7.2 ph, 5 gh, and 0.5 phosphate. If this is a possible cause, what might I do about it? Would rather not have to go the RO route. Thanks.


PH---7.2
GH---5.0 You do not need RO water witha GH of 5!

Phos-0.5 this is kind of high

What is your waters KH?
How many watts per Gallon do you have?
What type of lighting (T-8 or T-5)
How many bubbles per minute of Co2 are you getting?
How much and how often do you do your water changes?

You have to many nutients in your tank! STOP fertilizing! Do a large 25% water change and 15-20% every week without fertilzors. Your tank is small and your plants are light. you are overdosing the ferts and algae is taking advantage of that.

Do what I say and you will have an algae fee tank.

[tyler79durdan]

Dr. Aaron says 9watt UV for 4 hours daily for 3 days. Keep glass clean and agitate substrate.

Watch it disappear completely :)

Read this (http://www.*****************/information/green_water.htm)

-Aaron

[dundadundun]

I've never seen blue-green algae (BGA) that looked that bright green.
i have never seen plants at all that looked that bright green. i have however seen cyano that did in my tank (and i don't mean overexposed pictures of it either). then again i have not seen cyano that prefers glass walls to the tops of plants and decor/substrate.

.5ppm phosphates are right on time imo. i've got 2 tanks usually running >4ppm with no algae. that's 8 times as much by volume... myth busted, imo.

if that algae is on surfaces... not just green water a uv unit will be about helpless against it. not only that but if it were cyano, and were to be stirred up and sucked into a uv unit it's death could wreak havoc on water quality, possibly killing fish if not tended to timely.

the op has still not posted his fertilizing regime as well as has not posted ammo, trite and trate levels either. i also see no mention of maintenance, lighting or co2 levels. everything comes into play when trying to keep algae at bay. most likely if the op were to adjust a couple things slightly and lift his lights up a bit the algae could be controlled better.

as we can see here... http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm low nutrients and/or bad maintenance will quickly turn your tank into an algae farm.

some people are lucky enough to have hard water and don't need much in the way of ferts. my water is pretty much stripped of anything. i add ferts because i have no choice. i've used rain water and had to make it work. don't skimp on ferts to try to fix algae, it doesn't work! algae does quite well with one piece of the puzzle missing. plants, however, do not. keep them growing well and your algae will have less chances of taking over.

i would venture to say that's gda on the glass and bga on the plants. i'm pretty sure there's a good chance your nitrates are getting stripped too low. i would still either cut some bulbs off or raise your lights a little above your tank because more light than your ferts can keep up with only feeds algae.

[tyler79durdan]

Looked like green water to me, but I agree it is hard to tell in the pics.

-Aaron

[J double R]

i have never seen plants at all that looked that bright green. i have however seen cyano that did in my tank (and i don't mean overexposed pictures of it either). then again i have not seen cyano that prefers glass walls to the tops of plants and decor/substrate.

.5ppm phosphates are right on time imo. i've got 2 tanks usually running >4ppm with no algae. that's 8 times as much by volume... myth busted, imo.

if that algae is on surfaces... not just green water a uv unit will be about helpless against it. not only that but if it were cyano, and were to be stirred up and sucked into a uv unit it's death could wreak havoc on water quality, possibly killing fish if not tended to timely.

the op has still not posted his fertilizing regime as well as has not posted ammo, trite and trate levels either. i also see no mention of maintenance, lighting or co2 levels. everything comes into play when trying to keep algae at bay. most likely if the op were to adjust a couple things slightly and lift his lights up a bit the algae could be controlled better.

as we can see here... http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm low nutrients and/or bad maintenance will quickly turn your tank into an algae farm.

some people are lucky enough to have hard water and don't need much in the way of ferts. my water is pretty much stripped of anything. i add ferts because i have no choice. i've used rain water and had to make it work. don't skimp on ferts to try to fix algae, it doesn't work! algae does quite well with one piece of the puzzle missing. plants, however, do not. keep them growing well and your algae will have less chances of taking over.

i would venture to say that's gda on the glass and bga on the plants. i'm pretty sure there's a good chance your nitrates are getting stripped too low. i would still either cut some bulbs off or raise your lights a little above your tank because more light than your ferts can keep up with only feeds algae.

You know, I didnt even look at the plants. What is on the leaves is definitely cyanobacteria, but what is on the glass is not. That looks more like string algae to me, just an insane amount.

I agree on the UV sterilizer thoughts directly above, as well. Not really a viable option. It IS important to remember that if UV is going to be suggested as a "quick fix", that the potential ramifications (read: ammonia spike from the massive amounts of dead plant matter) should be mentioned as well.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say there IS a fert regimen being used, as well as lighting, and we know there is CO2 being injected, as evidenced by the diffuser in one of the photos.

oh, and that's not green water. :)

[tackful]

Many thanks to everyone for taking such an interest in my problem. Here is additional tank information: 55 watt CF Brite Kit 10/ hrs over 29 gal, UV Sterilizer 24 hrs/day for several months (initiated after horrible battle with green water), weekly WC of 1/3 to 1/2 weekly with gravel vacuuming and filter rinse in tank water, ammonia and nitrite both zero.
Fertilizing regime is N,K,P on even calendar days, Fe on odd days, and 1/2 cap of Flourish twice a week. For the last two weeks P has been 0.5 to 1.0, Fe 0 to 0.25, and N ranging from 0 to 25 and back (couldn't decide whether I was over or under on nutrients. Pressurized co2 at approx 2 bubbles/sec., 9 hrs/day. Drop checker blue half the time, green half the time. Played around with Epsom Salt, then Flourish Equilibrium for about 1 1/2 weeks (yes, I am confused about all this green stuff!), but discontinues both two weeks ago, at which time I began using Flourish Root Tabs, being careful to bury them fully in the substrate, although green film problem began one week later.
There is one more thing I should mention: Almost two weeks prior to the appearance of this algae. I had make a 50/50 solution of Excel/H20 to use as a dip for algae-covered wisteria, which I thoughtlessly dumped into the tank afterwards. Immediately made a 50% water change, but lost 4 fish in the next two days. Also had very clear water for the next week, and no algae, but I wonder if that set the stage for my current "algae event".
Once again, sure appreciate all the help.

[J double R]

two weeks ago, at which time I began using Flourish Root Tabs, being careful to bury them fully in the substrate, although green film problem began one week later.
There is one more thing I should mention: Almost two weeks prior to the appearance of this algae. I had make a 50/50 solution of Excel/H20 to use as a dip for algae-covered wisteria, which I thoughtlessly dumped into the tank afterwards. Immediately made a 50% water change, but lost 4 fish in the next two days. Also had very clear water for the next week, and no algae, but I wonder if that set the stage for my current "algae event".
Once again, sure appreciate all the help.

The excel overdose was bad, as you saw with your fish losses (sorry about that.. sucks :()

I think they key here is going to be the root tabs. if those nutrients get agitated into the water column, you can have a TON of problems. The biggest indicator of this is green water, but since you use UV sterilization 24/7, it prevents the green water problem from manifesting. This leads me to believe the next in line was the stuff you have seen blowing up on your glass, and the cyanobacteria on your plants.

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Did you do any water testing after you accidentally dropped the mix into the tank? Excel is basically just a watered down form of a potent protein fixing biocide. Wondering if your filter took a hit from the Excel overdose... (Mind you I'm a bit sleep deprived at the moment, so take my musings with a grain of salt)

[dundadundun]

25 is good for N... 0 is baaaad... try to stay above 5 or 10 constantly. when it drops your cyano is likely to come back. it doesn't go away over night either so if it drops often you'll never get rid of it ime.

p should be fine.

fe looks good.

co2 might be an issue here depending what times it's coming on. you'll want it to build up a little before the light comes on ideally.

you can cut back your hours on your uv unit substantially imo. mine runs 14 hours a day at this point and it's total overkill. i want to cut that into thirds at least. that really has nothing to do with your issues at this point but it will save you electricity and prolong your bulb life.

when you say flourish do you mean trace, comprehensive, excel, what? i find flourish trace to be somewhat useless personally. i also see no other mentions of trace supplements other than iron. you might want to handle that. i recommend plantex highly personally.

root tabs are a good idea for your rooted plants. i recommend riiz's recipe in the sticky in this section. it's done wonders for my tanks. flourish tabs were the best i could find before that but the diy recipe has done me sooo much better. i hated making them but since i've almost forgot about that... and i still have some left. the price is worth it too. one thing i would do differently is i'd not roll them into balls. pill or disc shapes push into gravel much easier and if you use tongs or something they'd be easier to hold too.

according to your story you may have experienced a small undetectable ammo spike also. that may have set you in your direction. in the future though... if you have to do emergency w/c's and you know some nutrients drop to near zero it might be a good precaution to shoot a quick dose during your unscheduled w/c to keep a deficiency from creeping up. it's happened to me too... talk about frustrating!

raising your lights up a bit for now... and maybe permanently should make things a little easier to get under control. remember, excess light drives algae growth. some people swear by shorter photo periods... i make no claim to that, in fact i have one tank that the photo period swings from 10-15 hours a day and is happy... but it might help you here. seeing how covered your tank seems to be you might want to start with 6 hours a day and work up from there.

[tackful]

Unfortunately I didn't think to test ammonia after the Excel disaster. Now wish I had. As for traces, I use plain Flourish, not Flourish Traces. When you suggest raising my light, do you mean physically raising it above the tank?
Right now I am about to do a WC. Some folks lower the water, then wipe algae off of the upper glass with a paper towel so as not to put more of it into the tank. Then they go through an ugly period of not touching the stuff for 2-3 weeks in order to let it change into another form which then dies and can be removed. Is it at all possible too avoid this?
Appreciate the advice concerning UV sterilizer, and does it matter whether I turn it off at night or during the day? Thanks.

[dundadundun]

yes, raising it higher above the tank.

that flourish is *supposed* to be a comprehensive mix. check the bottle, there's macros and micros in there. i'd think that would be diluting your micros somewhat. i'd try to get some plantex if you can swing it.

you may be able to wipe algae off of glass and plants while the water is low. cyano can sometimes be removed somewhat by swirling a toothbrush in it and removing the toothbrush.

unfortunately the only things that happen in fish tanks fast are bad things. so you'll have to go on faith for a little bit once you get things in check and wait it out while the algae dies off.

i don't know if it matters day or night for the uv, honestly. i've read some claims about it oxidizing nutrients and such, but i'd have to say that's bogus or my nutrients would be depleted. i do mine opposite my lights currently which i've turned down to a 10 hour photoperiod on that tank... so 10 hours of light, 14 hours of uv. it was 12/12 and that was more than enough.

[tackful]

Just did a 50% WC and wiped all algae off the upper glass, cleaned it off the lower. Tried to rub algae off of upper wisteria leaves with my fingers, but no luck. Now I have lights and co2 turned off, set HOB and water level for maximum splash and oxygen, and covered the tank completely with dark towels.
Started a blackout because all throughout this problem, glass on one end of the tank was hardly affected at all. Although the tank has always received indirect sunlight in the afternoon, that particular end got less than the rest of the tank, so trying a blackout seems to make sense. Now I wait for three days.

[butcher333]

I've never seen anything that bad. I tried CO2 , and fertilizing, and many other things when I first got into this hobby and what I have found is that keeping it simple is the key to success(for me). I have snails that I received with a plant order years ago (on purpose). I keep a pleco. until it gets too large -4 to 5in, then I take it back to the lfs and buy another small one. My plants grow very nicely. I have an occasional tuft of Beard algae on my bog wood, and some blue green on my anubias, green spot and hair on the glass which is very light do to the mowing of snails and pleco. I deal with them when they need be. H2O+light+Nutrients=algae and if you don't have something to deal with them they spoil everything.

[Slappy*McFish]

Personally, if I had an algae outbreak that bad I'd toss in a lot more plants. Preferably, more fast growing, nutrient sucking stem plants and let them float at the surface.

Big 50% water change, re-dose ferts, crank up CO2.

If you don't want to go that route, then permanently reduce lighting.