Those Malawis... [Archive] - Aquaria Central

NeBuEr

01-23-2004, 1:41 PM

Hi my name is Reuben and I just bought an aquarium 3 weeks ago. Initially i had started off with 3 goldfish and they lived in uttermost peace until my very enthusiastic mom brought home 4 Malawi's! These practically killed my goldfish by fin nipping but now i got a shark catfish and today i just found a small nip on its tail! The dealer told me they were compatible but not it my case it seems! What shall I do? :( 10x!

DEmigh

01-23-2004, 2:08 PM

Welcome to Aquaria Central :hi:

Goldfish, Bala sharks, and Malawi cichlids :confused:

Holy seafood combo platter, Batman :eek:

These three species all have wildly different needs and care requirements:

Goldfish are beautiful, but also prone to polluting a tank. They want cool-cold water to be happiest.

Bala sharks are a brackish water species, though they can get by in freshwater... sort of. The real problem is they get BIG.

Malawian cichlids need a specialized water chemistry to be at their happiest, and as you've already noted, can be ferociously aggressive.

What size tank do you have? You may already be overstocked :(

I suppose the good news is, you may be able to make a good case for another couple of aquariums :D

DEmigh

01-23-2004, 2:26 PM

By the way:

There's a thread running right now over in the General Chit-Chat forum entitled "where are you from?" Try posting there. It won't necesarily help with your fish problems, but we'd all be interested to meet someone from Malta.

:)

~*LuvMyKribs*~

01-23-2004, 3:59 PM

Yikes goldfish and malawis! Holy cow. Okay, well you've already learned that goldfish and malawi cichlids don't get along- the hard way.

I would remove either the bala shark or the malawis depending on what size tank you have, and what your water parameters are. And also what fish you choose to keep. Malawi cichlids deserve a tank to themselves, and should not be mixed with other kinds of fish.

I would expect that your tank is not fully cycled yet?

Please post these: Ph, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, and size tank.

This will help us help you.

Uncle Bete

01-24-2004, 9:23 AM

why do I keep thinking irredesent shark? :confused:

NeBuEr

01-24-2004, 3:30 PM

Well yes I did learn the hard way I'm afraid... now my tank contains these fish:
4 Malawi's
1 Tetra (dealer said its gonna go through the deja-vu goldfish destiny soon)
1 Guppy (ditto)
1 Dalmation Molly
1 Shark Catfish
1 Pl*co
1 Mono

Today I've just added salt to my aquarium to make it brackish... my aquarium is a 50 gallon one. As i just started I dont exactly know the pH, dH and the such but i took a sample to my dealer and said that water was fine (but still it has chlorine in it... shall I have to remove it?). what does fully cycled mean pls? (excuse my ignorance)

TILL NOW everything seems fine the Malawi's seems settled! Btw when u said there was a thread on 'where are u from?' - what shall i write? :P

~*LuvMyKribs*~

01-24-2004, 5:16 PM

Well, i am utterly suprised the malawis haven't killed everything except the shark and the pleco.

What fish would you like to keep? Because you can't keep everything you have now. :shake:

Is there any reason you are making your water brackish?

You must remove chlorine from the water by letting it sit overnight (evaporating the chlorine), or add a dechorlinator. Chlorine is bad for fish, and should not be in the tank.

Ph is very important. Certian fish need certian ph levels. (acidic, neutral, or basic). Malawi cichlids need a ph of 8.0 or above. (thats very basic and achieved by adding crushed coral/limestone to your tank).

Cycling is when you allow beneficial bacteria to build up in your tank. It takes one cycle (of about a month) to get the water chemistry just right. At first there will be a spike in ammonia (very bad), and then nitrites (bad as well), then slowly nitrates will accummulate and these are always present, and removed by doing weekly water changes.
Many people opt for the 'fishless cycle' to prevent stress and even death to your new fish. But this is obviously not a choice for you now.

You really need to research your fish before you add them. Its good you came here for advice. Do you want to do an african tank? It might be a little more challenging for you since this is obviously your first tank. I would take them out. I know they are pretty but you can do an african tank at another time. Do you know what kind they are? If they are yellow labs then they *might* be okay in your tank, Since these are the least aggressive.

You need to know your ph, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels. Please go buy some test kits and test for these so you dont wake up with dead fish and wonder what happend.

Well i hope any of that helps. If you know your tetra and guppy are gonna die why dont you take them out and give them back to the pet store? (just wondering).

Good luck!
:)

NeBuEr

01-25-2004, 1:52 AM

Do I have to really remove the Malawi's? They were not really cheap at the pet store compared to other fish! I have one which is yellowish with black stripes, 2 others brownish with black stripes and a male Malawi (white with bluish fins) - the latter is the most aggressive. Strangely enough they seem to be adapting themselves to the other fish though...can they do that?

Yes I added salt because I knew Mono's and Shark Catfish liked brackish water better than total freshwater. Plus I think salt could heal the wounds caused by the Malawi's right?

The chlorine part is not a problem as I had let my tank set for a whole week in the aquarium before adding any fish. Cycling has supposedly started as i added the bacteria in the filter when I first bought my unfortunate goldfish. :(

I dunno what I'm gonna do now coz I have gotten used to everyone now! The dealer pointed certain species which are not conflictual with Malawi's (eg the catfish and Mono) but I think I am unprepared to start a 'categriocal' tank right now as I have limited time (I have to get my foot in university :P) I guess I'll go and buy some testing kit v soon then.

10x a lot :)

dethjam316

01-25-2004, 2:29 AM

Originally posted by Uncle Bete
why do I keep thinking irredesent shark? :confused: because a 'shark cat' isn't a bala at all. bala sharks aren't brackish, anyway! it's probably one of these guys (http://www.*****************/catalog_pages/brackish_water/shark_white_tip.htm).

ok, nebuer, malawi cichlids are NOT compatible with anything you have except maybe the pleco...which will get huge. if you want to keep the malawis you must...drumroll please...get rid of EVERYTHING ELSE. or they'll do it for you. well, combined with the wrong conditions for some of your fish, anyway. the pleco might survive, and he'll be okay in a 50g, though its really not recommended per se.

another problem. you made your tank brackish...ok, well, no offense bro, but what were you thinking?!! yes the mono and the shark cat will do better in this, but didn't you think about what might happen to everything else!!!!!?!? everything else will die in brackish water, cept maybe the molly. and a little salt is good for healing, but not enough for making it truly brackish.

so in short, my advice:
1) assuming you want the malawis...take back everything else except perhaps the pleco. you DEFINITELY cannot have the mono (and, really, the shark cat) with those other freshwater species. something has to give, and it'll give in the form of copious deaths.
2) do a 95% water change with dechlorinated water. maybe then you'll have gotten rid of most of the salt you put in. you haven't cycled yet anyway, so it can't hurt.

alternatively:
1) if you want to keep the tank brackish...take back the malawis, the tetra, the guppy, and the pleco. they'll all die in brackish water.

either way, you might have some fish die simply because you added a heavy bioload without completing the cycle, so it's a good idea to take back some fish regardless. but....please take some of this advice, because your fish won't do very well at all otherwise.

NeBuEr

01-25-2004, 3:38 AM

I understand wot u mean dethjam316 but i had read somewhere that malawi's do better in brackish water than 100% freshwater. Mainly I added the salt 4 the healing mind u not to make it totally 'brackish' coz i wud have to add god knows how much more salt for that! Look this is the quote from http://members.aol.com/yamatoaquariums/salt.html :

"Some fish that do much better with added salt would include Goldfish, Koi, African Cichlids, and livebearers. Indeed, the secret to keeping healthy, robust Mollys, Platys, Swordtails, and Guppys is to add salt"

I think I started the cycling though coz 2 weeks ago I put the bacteria in the filter... not sure if they are working or not now!

Will the Malawi's attack the Mono then? till NOW they seem to be doing ok but probably not for long as from the hints u all gave... bah i really started off well with my aquarium adventures :mad: Btw do Malawi's change colour? - one of mine has a brown stripe which comes and goes!

I rly appreciate all the help ur all giving me :)

JSchmidt

01-25-2004, 10:36 AM

Malawis do not need, and do not benefit from 'salt' in the common sense, sodium chloride. If you look at the chemical composition of Lake Malawi, you'll find very little of that.

Some companies sell "Rift Lake Salts" that are compounds of other elements that primarily serve to harden the water, and in some cases, buffer it and increase pH.

Adding salt -- usually sold as aquarium salt -- to a Malawi tank is not a good practice.

And finally, I agree with most of the comments above about the mix of fish being problematic.

HTH,
Jim

dethjam316

01-25-2004, 11:58 AM

the malawis will probably attack everything they can. now, the mono is simply the most incompatible fish environment-wise, and the shark cat will be similarly out of its element as it grows. i believe shark cats live in true marine during some stage of their life, brackish during most, and fresh during birth? these are true brackish fish and shouldn't be kept in a freshwater environment, which is what all your other fish need.

now, livebearers (ie: guppies, swordtails, platys, mollies, etc) can do with with a little salt...ie, a tablespoon per 20g or so, i believe is the dosage, but i've never used it. of all of those fish, only mollies can truly adapt to live in brackish water.

so your dillemma is basically spelled out in my last post. do you want a tank of malawis with a pleco? or do you want a brackish tank with the mono and the shark cat, and maybe the molly, and you could add to that...? or do you want a community tank, in which case, you'd take back the mono, the shark cart, and the cichlids? you can't have it all...not in one tank. oh, that's another option. buy more tanks.:D

~*LuvMyKribs*~

01-25-2004, 1:03 PM

have one which is yellowish with black stripes, 2 others brownish with black stripes

These guys?
http://www.malawimayhem.com/profile_show.php?id=284

If these are the malawis you have then you should definately take them back because they are one of the most aggressive malawi cichlids and will most likely kill even your other malawis in a 50 gallon. :eek:

fishdude

01-26-2004, 12:07 AM

wow its like dejavew (spelling?) i started out wth a ten and added a LOT of fish on the first day (goldfish i won in the fair)

ok so exactly what everyone else said to do
its hard to give up some fish, trust me i know:rolleyes: but you have to let them go or they will die personaly i would do the african cichlids but im a cichlid freak so............

PumaWard

01-26-2004, 7:49 AM

The Mono, the guppy, the shark, and the molly are the only fish that can live brackish in your tank. The only cichlids that I know of that can go brackish (and there are probably more) are many of the guatapotes of Central America (which you don't want because the smallest can still get over 12'') and P. pulcher (kribensis) of West Africa.

As for Malawi's benefitting from salt... Lake Malawi is not a brackish lake, but freshwater. It is unnatural for them to be living in brackish, and living in it will most likely shorten their life span.

Back to the Mono, Monos need to be in schools and can get quite big. As juveniles, they need brackish water, but once they reach adult hood, they need to be slowly aclimated to fully saltwater. They are completey incompatible with anything, now except the molly and guppy (both of which, in the wild, have been seen/caught in saltwater).

Will the Malawi's attack the Mono then? till NOW they seem to be doing ok but probably not for long as from the hints u all gave... bah i really started off well with my aquarium adventures Btw do Malawi's change colour? - one of mine has a brown stripe which comes and goes!

Yeah, the Malawis will get nasty as they grow. Don't worry about starting off on the wrong track as you, I think, have discovered (before it was too late) you mistakes and now you can correct them. I know I started way off on the wrong foot when I switched my 75g over to a community tank 2 years ago. I dare say that at least 3/4 of the people on this forum started off with misinformation or lack of any information at all.

Most cichlids, in general, can change color. I don't own any malawis so I cannot be certain, but I would dare say that they can change colors as well, depending on their mood.

HTH

dethjam316

01-26-2004, 9:41 AM

even the guppy is not *really* a brackish water fish.

RHJ

01-26-2004, 10:42 AM

You made the mistake most people in this hobby make...lack of research. Probably most of the people in these forums have done it, myself included. When I started keeping fish 12 years ago I put a fish that grew 2.5 feet in a 20 Gallon tank! Of course I didn't know it got that big and the person at the fish store didn't tell me either. You will learn not to trust everything (sometimes anything) employees at these stores tell you. You have a decent sized tank. You have many options as to which fish can be kept in that tank. My advice to you is to go to your LFS and decide what you like. look around, write down the names of all the fish you think you would like to keep and then find out everything you can about them. The internet is wonderful for this. There are species profiles on this site, as well as asking advice in these forums.
What fish would you like to keep? Because you can't keep everything you have now.
as the other members have stated, the fish you have now cannot be kept in the same tank. Most or all of them should go. I would talk to the person who sold you all of these fish and get your money back, or at least a store credit. You were not given good information.

RHJ

01-26-2004, 10:56 AM

I would like to add one more thing in regard to cichlids: If you decide you want to keep them, and Malawis specifically, make sure you do research on each species you want.
If these are the malawis you have then you should definately take them back because they are one of the most aggressive malawi cichlids and will most likely kill even your other malawis in a 50 gallon.
Just because they are all Malawis does not mean they can be kept together, especially in a 50 gallon. As I said earlier it is a good sized tank, but many cichlids need lots of room to live "in harmony" with one another. Some such as the Auratus and Demasoni need way more than 50 gallons, others could do great in your tank.

NeBuEr

01-26-2004, 3:28 PM

OK so now its pretty clear that I chose totally incompatible fish... so exactly what can live (preferably in peace) with Malawi?? Isn't it boring just having a tank of an only species?

I added just 1 teaspoon of salt per 4 gallons of water in the tank but didn't make it exactly brackish... and oh God i just noticed it now y do some fish have little white spots on them- i HOPE it's not some fungal infection coz i swear ill go bonkers soon!

YES u guessed right there ~*LuvMyKribs*~ (GULP) 2 of the Malawi's are those like in http://www.malawimayhem.com/profile_show.php?id=284 but the male is white probably bcoz he's still young! As from RHJ's comments I believe that there is much awaited mayhem in this blessed aquarium of mine. To tell u the truth the fishstore person is v gruff and i sorta get uncomfy even looking at him (but he gets nice fish all the same :P) I have 2 other Malawi's which are brown with black stripes and orangy fins...wot species r they does anyone know pls?

I dont believe the dealer will give me a refund or sthing coz he seems so certain that Mono's or Shark Catfish are compatible with Malawi *sigh* Oh! (the man of the million questions!) did I pour my bacteria right in the filter? I just poured the contents in the water found on the surface of the filter!

Thanks for the comments u post and all ur patience :)

JSchmidt

01-26-2004, 4:32 PM

For Malawis, I've become a big fan of species tank, or tanks with only two species. I often have a tank with a single species plus some sort of synodontis catfish as bottom feeder. If you get a good mix, you'll get to see all sorts of interesting courting and mating behavior, and you'll very likely get to see some fry in your tank. An advantage of a single species tank is that you can be sure your fry are not crossbreeds, which would allow you to sell them to an LFS.

Having mixed species tanks is also interesting, but IME a bit more difficult, as you have to pick compatible species. This can be tricky, but if you do your homework (BEFORE you get the fish), you can often find species that will get along.

The best recipe for success is a large tank and lots of rockwork.

Re: your fish and their white spots, there's a good chance they have ick. Do a search on this board, and on the Skeptical Aquarist ( http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml ) and you'll find a lot of info. Many of us use the salt-and-heat method of treating ick.

Good luck,
Jim

NeBuEr

01-27-2004, 8:36 AM

Yes it probably is ich as the white spots are most evident on the Shark Catfish! I currently have 11 teaspoons of salt in a 50 gallon aquarium... will it b enough to cure the fish? I'm currently raising temperature to 80F

~*LuvMyKribs*~

01-27-2004, 1:15 PM

Raise the temp veerrrryyy slowly to avoid shocking the fish. Salt and high temp should cure it. But ich was brought on for a reason- stress.

NeBuEr

01-27-2004, 2:11 PM

What do u think could have stressed the fish?

dethjam316

01-27-2004, 2:38 PM

being moved to a new tank, for one. the addition of too much salt, for two. the inclusion of fish that aren't compatible, for three. i'd suggest getting some medicine designed for ich, someone on here can recommend if you post asking for the right medicine. maracyn or rid-ich spring to mind, but i haven't had to treat ich for a long time. you need to get rid of the ich parasite, but most importantly, get the right compatible fish in your tank, because they'll continue to be stressed and won't settle in as you have it. you need to take some of the fish we mentioned back. period. i'm surprised you haven't yet had a mass die-off, but it's inevitable if you fail to take action. perhaps you can exchange them for the medicine you need and/or fish food? african cichlids are fascinating, you don't need all kinds of fish. in fact, i always found random samplings to look artificial and silly.

NeBuEr

01-27-2004, 4:06 PM

Well now I have to add salt purposely to get rid of ick naturally i guess...then ill go for the medicine if it doesn't work. U know wot- only the shark catfish seems to b really affected...the Mono a bit and the Malawi's nothing not even a spot :eek:

and btw I do believe I have freaky fish... the Mono and the male Malawi are touching mouth to mouth for a second and then part... :confused: huh?

tomorrow ill get rid of the guppy and the tetra and start thinking abt wot is compatible with malawi

~*LuvMyKribs*~

01-27-2004, 7:54 PM

and btw I do believe I have freaky fish... the Mono and the male Malawi are touching mouth to mouth for a second and then part... huh?

In fish language- thats called fighting. They are testing each other's strength and the dominant one will take over. The weaker one might be able to hold its own- but not without damage. I would watch them very closely.

Whats compatible with malawi? MALAWI! I would take back those auratus too because they are even too agressive for a communtiy mbuna tank. (mbuna is the kind of malawi cichlid that they are.)

:duh: Its good to take back the tetra and guppy to your lfs. Make sure they have no ich on them. Its a good start but your tank still needs a lot of work. Dont give up! :)