Just lost 20 fish in less then 48 hours.

[djdestructo]

I have lost nearly all my Cardinal Tetras and Black Neon Tetras in less then 48 hours!

To what looks like a very rapid fin and body rot. There are streaks of blood along some of the fins and most if not all have turned white.

It however has not seemed to harm the other fish *knock on wood* as of yet. So I am leaning towards Neon Tetra Disease?

I tested my water and the readings are as follows

Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 10-20

I am have done 2 water changes and scrubbed down the tank in hope that it helps.

The only thing I can think of as the cause is that I added Purigen to my filter and I used Nutrafin's AquaPlus, Flourish Excel and Kent's Plant Pro for ferts. Could the Purigen have caused a chemical reaction to any of those to create a toxic environment?

I have since removed the Purigen and replaced it with a fresh bag of carbon, stopped all doses of Kent's Plant Pro and Excel.

[msjinkzd]

what are your most recent additions and how long ago? I doubt its neon tetra disease, it doesn't usually happen that fast. Sounds like a bacterial infection or contamination issue to me.

[Cerianthus]

Actually fish that suffers from NTD will flip over in matter of minutes once starts to hang on top and displays symtoms.

ALthough it can be, I dont think this is NTD from pic of BNT on other thread (cardinal pics wouldve been more definitive), rather other implications.

What is the present pH and was this pH that fish were exposed to?

If I was to add any additives to tank, I would be cautious when adding, especially products from diff mfr. As you mentioned, we can NOT figure out all the possible reactions between additves.

Hopefully, tank will settle soon w/o furthrer implications/losses.

[djdestructo]

what are your most recent additions and how long ago? I doubt its neon tetra disease, it doesn't usually happen that fast. Sounds like a bacterial infection or contamination issue to me.

The most recent additions where a male german blue ram, and 4 cardinal tetras. I got them on a Saturday, by Thursday the male died, and then on Friday I had 8 dead fish, followed by more by the hour it would seem.

The current PH is 7.8 which is normal for Toronto tap water it would seem.

[msjinkzd]

to me that is more indicative of bacterial infection.

[BioHazard]

The red streaks make me think a serious, systemic bacterial infection, introduced from the newly added fish. If it is acting this fast, I am not sure there is much you can do. I would keep the water pristine; daily water changes of 50%. Hopefully some of your fish will survive.
I have done the same thing. Taught me my lesson on quarantining! You should ALWAYS quarantine a new fish in a separate tank, for at LEAST 2 weeks.

[djdestructo]

Ya I will be putting new fish in QT in the future.
Going to wait a month till I put new fish in to give the tank time balance out, it just sucks that nearly all of them are dead in such a short time.

[djdestructo]

Lost 1 glass catfish, 1 german blue ram, 1 guppy and one more black neon.
Have about 6 fish left, wonder how long till they bite the bullet.

[cellodaisy]

Lost 1 glass catfish, 1 german blue ram, 1 guppy and one more black neon.
Have about 6 fish left, wonder how long till they bite the bullet.

Are you doing anything to combat the (likely) bacterial infection?

[BioHazard]

Keep going daily water changes, some of your fish may pull through yet!

[djdestructo]

Keep going daily water changes, some of your fish may pull through yet!

Ya from what I have heard AquaPlus is anime based even though it is stated on their website that its is not. If this is the case then Purigen created a toxic environment. Just going to keep up with water changes and maybe switch to Prime. Also goin to stick with carbon as a chemical media as I never had problems until I added Purigen

[guppymonkey]

Something that a guy suggested at a club meeting recently was the use of formalin.
There are a couple treatment styles for organisms, so read up on the best method for your situation. Shrimp, snails, and such don't handle it well at all.

[BioHazard]

Something that a guy suggested at a club meeting recently was the use of formalin.
There are a couple treatment styles for organisms, so read up on the best method for your situation. Shrimp, snails, and such don't handle it well at all.

This would likely kill any remaining glass cats. They are pretty sensitive to medication.
What fish do you have left?

[J double R]

Ya from what I have heard AquaPlus is anime based even though it is stated on their website that its is not. If this is the case then Purigen created a toxic environment. Just going to keep up with water changes and maybe switch to Prime. Also goin to stick with carbon as a chemical media as I never had problems until I added Purigen

I might recommend looking into why you need a chemical media at all. A proper tank cycle and timely and proper water changes will take care of all your "chemical" needs.

any toxic environment created by Purigen that would kill most of your fish would have killed all of them - toxins aren't choosy, they target everyone.

My vote is with everyone else - bacterial infection. Specifically, hemorrhagic septicemia, indicated by the bloody streaks. Highly doubt pH had anything to do with it.

Also, something I've read about is that in the past 5 years or so, there has been a significant increase in viral HS in wild populations of native fish... Not sure if this has reached into the domesticated aquatic population yet, but you never know.

I'd stick with the solid diagnosis of a bacterial infection, and treat accordingly, with regards to the sensitivity of your remaining stock.

Oh, and make sure you QT in the future. :)

[djdestructo]

This would likely kill any remaining glass cats. They are pretty sensitive to medication.
What fish do you have left?

Well what ever it is, has not stopped at the tetras, its now moved on to the others in the tank.

I have left 2 guppies, 2 glass catfish, 1 black neon and 1 cardinal tetra, although he did not look good this morning. So I have a feeling that it won't be much longer.

I only used carbon to remove tannis from the diftwood. Thats why I started using Purigen. It worked really well, but I guess the AquaPlus and the Purigen created a toxic environment. Even though it is stated on Hagen site that AquaPlus is not anime based I have been told otherwise.

If it is bacteria, what is my next step? Remove everything? what about live plants?

[hankn]

I would start adding salt like for ICH.

Read:
http://fish.mongabay.com/disease.htm

[djdestructo]

If it is bacteria could it have moved this fast? I only ask as the guys at my LFS are leaning towards a chemical reaction rather then bacteria as none of the fish had any symptoms.

[cellodaisy]

AquaPlus is not anime based I have been told otherwise.
?

What the heck does that mean? Isn't "anime" an illustration style? What does it have to do with aquaria? I tried searching for "AquaPlus" and "anime" and all I found were references to a company called Aquaplus that produces graphic novels. :confused:

[djdestructo]

What the heck does that mean? Isn't "anime" an illustration style? What does it have to do with aquaria? I tried searching for "AquaPlus" and "anime" and all I found were references to a company called Aquaplus that produces graphic novels. :confused:

Sorry its amine based :P lol not anime :P

Quote from Seachem's website

"Only certain slime coat products will cause Purigen® to become toxic; the products that do this are amine based. Prime® and Safe™ are not amine based and so will not cause this problem. If you're curious, what happens is that the amine compounds can strongly bind to the resin, then when they (the amines) come into contact with any chlorine they will form chloramines which are highly toxic. We offer a stress coat product, StressGuard™, which is not amine based and so can be used in conjunction with Purigen.™"

[cellodaisy]

Sorry its amine based :P lol not anime :P

Ah! Mystery solved! :p:

[msjinkzd]

For bacterial infection you would want to treat with antibiotics. I like triple sulfa

[djdestructo]

For bacterial infection you would want to treat with antibiotics. I like triple sulfa

If I come home tonight to find all of them dead. Would letting the tank sit for a month get rid of the bacteria or will I have to clean the tank out. Just thinking if there are no fish to infect would the bacteria run its course? I do have Erythromycin that I could treat the tank with, but is it even worth it?

[msjinkzd]

theoretically lettting it lay fallow would take care fo it. But your nitrogen cycle would be lost and that is a long time to look at an empty tank. I would dose it. EM should work as well, but you will want to double check that. I am not 100% on it

[djdestructo]

theoretically lettting it lay fallow would take care fo it. But your nitrogen cycle would be lost and that is a long time to look at an empty tank. I would dose it. EM should work as well, but you will want to double check that. I am not 100% on it

It does say that it treats hemorrhagic septicemia, so that could help.