Why is everyone water crazy? Need help from experienced fish folks!

[Skyace]

Where are the hang-on filters and diaphragm pumps of yesterday? I directed some of these questions at forums in the past.. no replies. I thought I would title my request in such a way to have people look.

First are my questions followed by a bit of background.

1. Does anyone know if hang-on filters powered by an
external air pump which used carbon and wool as the filtration media can still be purchased. Perhaps one of you have one in your archives!

2. If I must have a running bill for filters cartridges etc. Since I seem to be bound to going this route, which filtration unit is the best for my needs? Pretty basic: 25 gallon tank with goldfish wintered inside waiting to be returned to the pond in the spring.

3. Also Can someone lead me to an explanation/information about the up-graded quality of pumps. I have always used the diaphragm type... way back then. I would like to know their principal of operation of the newer pumps and why they remain relatively quiet compared to a diaphragm

How things have change!
A few decades ago aquarium filtration was pretty
much cut and dry. At that time I had 8 large aquariums and did some breeding. I had success using inside filters or hang-on
outside filters with carbon and wool, all were powered by
an external diaphragm pumps. I can no longer find the hang-on filter of the type I used for many years. Searches on the web
showed along with other systems powered hang-on's using various special
cartridges etc. I was also taken back during my visit
to a couple of pet shops to see all of the new
filtration approaches. Most of which hope to hook the user for life buying their expensive filters/cartridges.

Geeezzz! I found even the charcoal is now specialized
and over priced. Wal-Mart had some at a
relatively decent price although too high.

I feel sorry for the newbies having to be inundated with the scientific approach of today. Not only is it expensive but rather frightening!

I will appreciate any reply.
Many thanks

skyace@sympatico.ca

[kveeti]

AquaClear HOB filters are motor driven and quiet and relatively inexpensive. They have chambers that you can put anything you want into. If you want to load it with wool and carbon, so be it. You want to save even more money? Skip the carbon all together, it is not necessary. There is a good thread on this recently: http://64.191.28.50/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22318&highlight=carbon Yes, they sell cartridges but you do not have to buy them. I am not experienced with any other type of HOB or canister filter.

[Soulcoffr]

As a relative newbie myself, I prefer scientific fishkeeping to blind luck. Makes more sense and at least you know what exactly is going on in your tank. And being "water crazy" is a good thing in my book... seeing as how it's what our fish live and breathe in.

As Kveeti says, the AquaClears are one of the better filters out there and you can load them up with filter foam (which you can rinse out in your changed water), or whatever else you want. You can also cut AquaClear foam to fit other power filters as well, thereby bypassing the whole cartridge thing altogether.

I guarantee you that a modern power filter is going to work far better than those antiquated air powered things. Far more efficient and easier to maintain.

[delmore]

I have AquaClears in my 4 tanks, and use only the sponge media, which lasts for years!

The AqauaClears are inexpensive, easy to maintain, and work extremly well.

for your 25g goldfish tank, and Aquaclear300 should do the job. a 500 would be overkill, but might be ok if the fish can stand the current. To maintain the filter, squeeze out the sponge in you old tank water.

By the way, if you've been away from the hobby for a long time, you should know that weekly water changes of 20% + per week is the single most important thing you can do to keep your fish healthy. When I kept fish as a pre-teen in the early 70's, we just used to top off the tanks when the water evaporated, and buy new fish when they died, which was often.

[RTR]

Having been in this hobby a bit >50 years, I have seen all the changes you mention. But I will take today's products over the "good old days" hands down, anytime, anywhere. (Although many of my filters have been on the market for decades, they are still available)

I am even more water-neurotic than most here, and also definitely run more filters than most. But I use no, repeat no, disposable filter media. All my filter materials are good for multiple years if not decades to forever. I won't say my filters are cheap initially, they are not, but they and their media last and last and last. Disposable media is an option many folk exercise for convenience, but it is certainly not a requirement or the only choice out there.

[Anne L.]

I have a question about my HOB filter. It's a Regent on a 10 gallon tank, and came with a carbon filter. Do I have to change this filter, or can I rinse it. Better yet, can I replace this filter with floss or an Aquaclear foam cut to fit.

I don't want to lose all of the bacteria buildup by changing this out, and as a newbie, I'm not sure what to do. I rather like the idea of rinse and reusing.

[kveeti]

Originally posted by Anne L.
Better yet, can I replace this filter with floss or an Aquaclear foam cut to fit.

Yes, this is the smartest thing to do (the foam)! You have beneficial bacteria over everything, the bit you will lose converting your carbon cartridge isn’t worth worrying about. Carbon loses its effectiveness after a very short time.

[Anne L.]

Cool, kveeti, that's what I'll do when it's time to change the filter. I'm amazed at the wealth of knowledge here.

I'm so glad I've taken the time to research aquariums and fishless cycling. I just put in my first fish - see the newbie forum - and they seem to be doing quite well.

Thanks for your help.

Holy smoke, just realized that this is my first post that wasn't in the newbie forum. Maybe I'm getting to be an old hand :p

[HarmonyAZ]

Anne L. - Rinse that foam in the aquarium water you remove in order to keep the bacteria. At least that's what I've read. :)

[TKOS]

Cheapest thing to do (for Anne and for Skyace) is to buy some filter floss or even plain old polyester batting (for making pillows, make sure it is just polyester). Stuff it in the area where the chamber is and voila! Just rinse occasionally.

Of course a brand new Aqua Clear will come with a sponge, but I added a little extra material.

[delmore]

Originally posted by HarmonyAZ
...Rinse that foam in the aquarium water you remove in order to keep the bacteria. At least that's what I've read. :)

If you rinse the foam in tap water, the chlorine will kill the nitrifying (good) bacteria. the old tank water holds a very small amount of the bacteria, but is perfect for cleaning the filter media.

[fish_freak]

another option that I use is taking the floss of the plastic part of the cartridge when it gets overly dirty and dumping out the carbon I then take some quilt batting (very cheap stuff) cut it close the size of the plastic peice and then attatch it buy putting a few rubber bands around so it holds to the plastic. Alot cheaper then buying the replacent cartridges

[Karlsbad]

Originally posted by RTR
Having been in this hobby a bit >50 years, I have seen all the changes you mention. But I will take today's products over the "good old days" hands down, anytime, anywhere. (Although many of my filters have been on the market for decades, they are still available)

I am even more water-neurotic than most here, and also definitely run more filters than most. But I use no, repeat no, disposable filter media. All my filter materials are good for multiple years if not decades to forever. I won't say my filters are cheap initially, they are not, but they and their media last and last and last. Disposable media is an option many folk exercise for convenience, but it is certainly not a requirement or the only choice out there.

What do you put in your eheims that lasts and lasts and lasts?

[RTR]

All my biomedia is permanent. For that I use Dupla's Minikaskade bioballs or Eheim's Ehfimech ceramic noodles (intended for coarse mechanical filtration, but it seems an adequate bio substrate as well, just not as self-cleaning as the Minikaskade).

The mechanical media is manufaturer's sponges. Not quite as permanent as the biomedia, but good for a decade if not longer.

For prefilters for the canisters I now use FilterMaxIII, also a lasting sponge.

HTH

[Karlsbad]

Originally posted by RTR
The mechanical media is manufaturer's sponges. Not quite as permanent as the biomedia, but good for a decade if not longer.
HTH [/B]

What is 'manufacturer's sponges'?

[RTR]

i.e., Eheim's sponges in Eheim's filters, etc.

You may pay a few cents more for branded material, but it seldom wrong to do so, considering the lifetime of the material.

[Karlsbad]

Originally posted by RTR
i.e., Eheim's sponges in Eheim's filters, etc.

You may pay a few cents more for branded material, but it seldom wrong to do so, considering the lifetime of the material.

I love my Pro II, but I saw a thread on here that said the PRO II was their premiere line, sadly they only have 2 sizes of them and the biggest one only goes like 277 gph pump output, or 198 gph filter output, whatever the f that means anyway. Mine has 3 trays and they say to go bottom to top: mech with a blue coarse pad inside the tray, substrate, and substrate with a white fine pad ON the tray and optionally carbon pad(though they don't say below or above the white pad I only have used the carbon when the whole tank was new and I put it on the white pad.) What do you think of adding another white fine pad and how do you think I could do it? Part of the reason I like it so much is cause it looks cool.

[RTR]

Water turnover from filters gets distorted on the boards as most folks deal with HOBs which are horribly inefficient as filters especially due to their small volume of filter material with tiny filter cross-sections. If you sized canisters to tanks, particularly highly efficient canisters such as Eheims, on the same scale as HOBs, you would have more overfiltration than I do - and my overfiltration is absurd, admitted. You just cannot compare particle capture units running at 10-15% max capture to units running 80-90% capture. So don't sweat the turnover rate for filters which are high-efficiency units. Just pick a unit that has your tank size in the middle of its range and you have a huge margin on either side.

If you want or need more current, that is a different matter. You can generate that more cheaply and maintain it more simply than by using external all-in-one canisters. You can also play games by varying spray bar return positions, splitting returns, and modifying or customizing your spraybars without adding more water-moving elements.

The differences in output refect industry standards, which suggest reporting pump output at zero head on both sides - no canister, no tubing, no media, no height difference or anything to cause frictional losses anywhere other than in the new, clean pump itself. Obviously that is unrealistic for the real world, but none the less, it is what everybody puts in their ads. Eheim also report the projected/expected clean canister output with their suggested media loading. That is their "filter output", a best-possible but real world measure. I would always use the fine pad as the last filter element before the pump.

If you are not using the carbon, you should have more room for a second white fine pad, but as this is the most likely to clog component, you will likely find yourself tossing the lower, clogging pad, dropping the upper still clean pad to the downstream position and adding a new one on top. Monitor flow with the two white pads to be sure it is not costing you too much - it does have the highest resistance of any of their media.

HTH