Wild fish in a tank???

[snakeskinner]

Slow day at work and my mind's been wandering. In the future, I plan to set up a large agressive fish tank with oscars, pacu, etc. I've been wondering about a native fish that grows here in Oklahoma and it seems most of the midwest and eastern states. there are several species of Sunfish, bluegill, etc. that grow here and are readily caught in any small puddle to lake sized water hole. They don't grow all that big and are probably similar in agressiveness to a cichlid or oscar. I know they can tolerate drastic temperatures since we incur 100 degree plus summers and I've broken 8" of ice and fished for them before. I can't find a whole lot on them, probably since they aren't considered an aquarium fish. I did however find their scientific names if anyone can recognize them from that. The 3 most commonly found are the bluegill, lepomis macrochirus; the green sunfish, lepomis cyannelus and the red ear sunfish, lepomis microlophus. Has anyone tried putting these in a fish tank? I know when I was younger, we caught some 2" sunfish in a sein and added them to our community tank and they were fine with the other fish being so young. The bluegill has a much smaller mouth than the other sunfish but I don't think that would be a big factor being the large mouth of an oscar. They aren't considered a game fish so there won't be any legal problems. I just figure they are much cheaper and if they did get too large (which isn't likely since the records are just over 2lbs), I can just turn them loose in a pond and catch another smaller one. thanks for any advice, Kyle

[OrionGirl]

Chech www.nanfa.org for more on keeping native fish. There are many species that will thrive in an aquarium, as long as care is taken. Check your state regulations as well--transporting live fish is illegal in many states, requires a permit in others, etc. In most states where transporting live fish is legal, there are size limitations, often based on creel. And, in most states, keeping them in your aquarium will count against your creel limit.

I would avoid species that you can't provide for their life time, as releasing fish from an aquarium, even back to where you caught them, is often illegal and always inadvisable.

[jread]

I raised a two red ear perch in a 55-gallon one time. I'd caught them in a pond with a large net (was actually catching ghost shrimp and accidentally caught them in the process).

They did fine in my 55 gallon and I kept them for a long time. It was fun to feed them crickets, worms or anything else I could find :)

When they got larger, I released them back into the pond where I caught them.

[Rhys]

I do wish sometimes i was back in my old town because they had all freshwater lakes and streams there and in my new town it is one huge river that is saltwater. Could prob start marine fishie:P

[snakeskinner]

nice website OrionGirl. It has a lot of insight on the water conditions but I still wonder about compatibility with other fish. I know the sunfish are legal to keep here since they are not considered a sportfish although the bluegill might, I'll have to check on that. Green and redear sunfish have no limits on size or quantity. Many are seined as baitfish for large catfish. Most of their natural "pondmates" are gamefish though and not legal to keep although I'd love to find out how I can legally keep some crappie or small bass until they grew too large for the tank. I suppose I could try and set up a native tank with some sunfish, small catfish and crawfish maybe. Most other fish I'd be aloud to keep are way too big (gar, paddlefish, drum, carp, etc.). I could possibly just raise some minnows or shad along with them. A school of shad would be cool and quite brilliant with their reflective scales. Maybe I need to hit up the local Fish & Game department and see what they think since I'm sure they have tanks set up for displays (I've seen them at fairs and tackle shows). thanks, Kyle

[F.sparverius]

I have a question. Why would it be illegal to keep game fish. Here in WV we go to a fish truck that stops by a couple times a year to buy largemouth bass/channle cats koi and redear. They don't ask what we plant to do with the fish * put them in a large 1/4 acre pond* as far as they know we put them in a swimming pool in the back yard or in a 10 gallon tank. Who enforces this sort of thing?

[sigmatauntaylor]

It isn't illegal to keep them but as Orion Girl said is probably illegal to set them free because of what they may have contracted while in captivity. Also, it is not likely that they will be well equipped for the outside world again after being in captivity, which allows them to rely on the owner for food.

[snakeskinner]

well, I don't actually know this for a fact. I've just always been told that this is not legal unless you have a special permit to keep wild game animals. I guess I ought to check into this. I'd love a tank full of largemouth and crappie. Kyle

[OrionGirl]

The keeping, sales, and planting of wild animals is policed by your State Game & Fish/Natural Resources/Wildlife Resources agency. In many states, it is illegal to be in possession of wild vaught game fish without permit. In Wyoming, for instance, transport of live fish - all fish other than specific bait species, and even some bait fish - is illegal. Planting fish without permission from the G&F is illegal, punichable by fines, revocation of fishing rights, etc. It has to do with controlling the fisheries and management of them. Many waters are managed for trout, and the introduction of walleye or saugar is detrimental. Several waters are managed for native cutthroat trout, so other salmonids that could interbreed can ruin years of careful management for these genetically pure fish.

[snakeskinner]

yeah, what she said..........

[Wippit Guud]

I always wanted to start a native marine tank, very few SW tanks that aren't tropical out there... but have no clue where to look for info on that

[OrionGirl]

Check Reefcentral. Many of the principles are the same for a cool water marine tank--and the fish are often briliantly colored. Many corals do better in cooler water, as well. The tanks aren't that common because the demand is pretty low, but many people keep them. One RC member has a tank of animals collected from around the NYC area--pretty, healthy, easy to feed.

[LMOUTHBASS]

sunfish are pretty tuff little buggers - bluegill are considered a game fish in most states sometimes they hold pan fishing tournaments where you fish for bluegill, crappie and perch -
as for keeping bass in an aquarium i woulnnt even consider it - unless you have like a 300g aquarium they get very big and will swallow anything it can get in its mouth - that includes oscars - there have been recorded incidents where fisherman have found adult bass trying to swallow each other over territory dipsutes - one bass had another's tail hanging out of it's mouth while the enitre body was inside of him - their mouth's are incredibly large - full grown they can get up to 20 lbs or better and are a great predator - all in all they are my favorite fish - that and the smallmouth bass
don't keep them in an aquarium - it's not right for them

[snakeskinner]

if I were to get some, I wouldn't keep them over about 3/4 lb in a 150-200 gallon tank. Realisticly, it's just a dream and will probably never come true. I would love a Bass Pro shops style aquarium in my home. Like 3000 gallon tank with bass, catfish, crappie, etc. I just love seeing those tanks at aquariums or fishing shops. I have caught small bass in seins before, would be interesting to raise them for a while before turning them back loose. Kyle

[LMOUTHBASS]

keeping natives woul be the sh*t - wish i had one of those humungous tanks for that type of thing too
someday:rolleyes:

[snakeskinner]

great news. I emailed the Oklahoma Wildlife and Fish Department and he said I could put any native fish I want in a fish tank as long as I have a license and as long as I caught it legally according to the rules. I just have to go check out the limits because I think most gamefish have to be a minimum size which would be too big. He also said I could turn loose any fish as long as it was not exotic. Cool, here fishy fishy............Kyle

[snakeskinner]

I was wrong, the only fish that have minimum sizes are flathead catfish or walleye/sauger which I wouldn't want to keep anyway being as predatory as they are. Forget Cichlids, I want Crappie, bass and sunfish!!! KYle

[LMOUTHBASS]

keep us updated

[snakeskinner]

well, it could be a while before I could get the opportunity for such a project but when I do, I will definitely post some photos and such. I am tempted to try and sein some 2-3" sunfish to put in my "semi agressive" tank and see what happens. Worse case scenario is I pull them back out and put them back in the pond where I caught them. May have to do some thinking on this, Kyle

[LMOUTHBASS]

what kind of parasited wild fish (natives) might introduce to your aquarium -

[demon_surfer]

thats what quarantine tanks are for ;)

[OrionGirl]

I can answer to some degree...Leaches, fish lice, and furunculosis (bacterial infection, often called fungus) are most common. Other parasitizing organisms could include larval mussels, depending on the time of year and collection site. Mussel larva almost all parasitize fish, but some are species specifica, so it's a hit or miss. Many parasites (whirling disease, for example) are multi-host parasites,and most likely will not be able to complete their lifecycle in your tank, so are not a huge threat. Internal parasites, such as many species of embedding worms will be the hardest to treat, but probably won't be found in a young fish.

Agree--pretty well any wild caught fish should be considered suspect and treated accordingly. Salt bathes are used often in hatcheries for most external parasites, and should be safe for most wild fish.

[LMOUTHBASS]

when i go fishing and catch say a bass- and the thing looks great it is still prob cov in parasites either internally and /or externally?

so most fish in the wild can survive most parasites though because of a built up immune system to their natural surroundings though right?
otherwise fish woul be dropping like flies - at least this is my guess???

[OrionGirl]

Yes and no. Parasites in the wild are controlled by factors not found in the aquarium. Different strains of fish are resistant to parasites--for example, rainbow trout are verys susceptible to whirling disease, but brown trout and cutthroat are not. The bigger factor is space. A parasite in the wild has a very slim shot at finding a host,let alone 2 or 3 at just the right times, so few survive. In an aquarium, especially for single host parasites like ich, the hosts are literally a captive supply, and almost every parasite will find a host. In wild populations, few fish will be heavily infested, and from some waters, none will be. For example, one local lake has lots of leaches--almost every fish pulled out will have a few of them. But, fish lice are seldom seen. Other waters, I've never seen a infected fish from them. Not to say they don't exist, just in much lower concentrations.

There is a lot of evidence indicating that parasites, along with predator/prey relationships, are a major driving force in evolution. Parasites are amazingly complex and effective--some so much so that they control/influence behavior of infected animals.

[LMOUTHBASS]

OG - just curious - you know so much about all types of fish etc always very helpful - i remember seeing in one of your posts something about working in a hatchery or something - i was just wondering what you do? lol i know you must be in some type of fish related field! ?
anyhow i always appreciate your help!

[OrionGirl]

:) I am actually a computer geek by trade, but I work in the Fish Division of the Game and Fish. So, I get to help other people lots--pulling nets, marking/spawning/stocking fish, monitoring/improving habitat, ect. I build and maintain the databases that track of the the data collected in the state, and it's much easier to my job if i understand where the data comes from, what it means, and what it's used for by the biologists.

[LMOUTHBASS]

that is pretty awesome - i have always wanted to do something like that as a career since i was a kid i always have had a fascination with fish and animals in general - big fan of the discovery channel growing up hahaha - unfortunately i work in the health insurance field though lol

[OrionGirl]

I'm really fortunate--I've been a biology buff for a really long time, and being able to work closely with the biologists here is great. They are very supportive of my position, and willing to help me understand things that are very basic to them--plus they like talking to someone interested in their jobs!

[LMOUTHBASS]

that is so cool - are you in school or anything to go further into the field?
i wish i went to school for marine biology myself but i'm taking business classes :rolleyes:
lol oh well

[jonah]

Originally posted by LMOUTHBASS
what kind of parasited wild fish (natives) might introduce to your aquarium -

My aquarium club did a native collecting trip in eastern Oklahoma last summer. The most common parasites were anchor worms. I've got a red ear and some other sort of sunfish in one of my 125g's right now. I also have the usual minnows and Gambusia species, plus some sort of killie fish.

[LMOUTHBASS]

i forgot to mention - if you keep sunfish try getting yourself a pumpkin seed sunfish - they are beautiful - i catcht them sometimes if i'm fishing for sunnies with some light tackle - anyhow they are so much more colorful than bluegill - not sure if they live down south - i imagine they must but they don't seem nearly as common as bluegill - i might catch one for every 10 bluegill i get but they are awesome n usually stcik near the BG'S

[seastaar88]

i keep blue spotted sunfish and shiners in my tank. wild fish are always a kazillion times more beautiful than anything in a pet store. :D i recommend it to anyone! they stay happy if you treat them right!;)