Amp's 25g Cube Seagrass build REDUX

[Amphiprion]

Welp, as the the title suggests, I'm picking up the pieces of my previous 40g tank, which suffered loss after loss, with a new 25g cube, specializing in seagrasses and an anemone. Some planned details:

--25g cube (18x18x18 in.)

--15g sump (17x17x12 in.)--I'll be custom making this from acrylic.

--250w 10000K HQI-only pendant (tank will be open-topped).

--Eventual algal turf scrubber--I'm going to hold off on it initially, since I want to give the seagrass a chance to grow-in. A scrubber can easily outcompete the grass if I let it. I'm also considering simply cutting down the scrubber photoperiod, which may be a better option. I had lots of success with one on my 40, so I'll continue using one.

--Mag 7 return (most of which will be devoted to scrubber).

--Spectrapure UPLC auto top-off module with 100% kalkwasser for top-off.

That's it as far as the tank itself goes. Beyond what I listed, I'll just be using a bit of carbon running continuously in a passive manner.

The goal for this tank is to make it as simple as possible, with minimal maintenance and minimal equipment. The most I suspect this tank will demand is a good amount of food input to keep enough nutrients for the seagrass to grow properly. Well, that and weekly scrubber cleanings, which are fairly quick. I would also eventually have to start pruning the seagrass. So, basically all-natural filtration, occasional water changes, heavy feeding, and heavy plant/algal growth are the primary themes here.

However, I'm also planning on an anemone--likely one of the sand-dwelling species. These do get pretty darn large, but it would have the entire tank at its disposal. Plus, I can also control the size to one degree or another with feeding frequency--all, of course, without any harm to the animal. The seagrass bed would be a very natural setting for these particular anemones, too.

So, for now, that's it. A natural tank that is as sturdy as I can make it in regards to water quality. Again, the only real challenge is the food input, which will have to be maintained at a fairly heavy pace, otherwise (oddly enough) pest algae and stunted plants will set in. It should also promote an ideal habitat for a dense population of other macro- and microorganisms, which should help in making this as natural and stable as possible. At any rate, I'm looking forward to it and sharing the experience with the folks at AC, since this kind of tank isn't terribly common and as it goes against many of the common themes you'll often hear in regard to aquaria.

Pictures to come as I piece things together :D

[greech]

Subscribed to this one for sure. Sounds like a lot of fun. Will there be any fish? Will the nem be of a hosting variety?

[Amphiprion]

Subscribed to this one for sure. Sounds like a lot of fun. Will there be any fish? Will the nem be of a hosting variety?

I certainly hope it'll be fun. That's my intention, anyway.

Yup, it will just have clownfishes. My little male died in this last crash, so for now, it'll just be my old female. I'll be getting a new male soon. It will be a hosting species--the challenging part will be keeping it small enough, though. I'll have to be careful with it to make sure it doesn't completely envelop the tank. I want to let the seagrass, etc. fill in before I add one, though. If it decides to go and cover up/dig up the few sprigs I have left, they won't make it.

[DoctaQ]

the thread weve all been waiting for amph

[Sploke]

looking forward to this build, as well as balancing out ATS filtration vs growing macro in the display.

[Amphiprion]

looking forward to this build, as well as balancing out ATS filtration vs growing macro in the display.

That's the main big unknown that concerns me. I'm just going to do what I can to make sure the seagrass grows well enough. I've also been busy getting together some old, detritus-rich sand and silt that should give the seagrass an edge, since they do obtain a lot of nutrition from the sediment. I'll probably make an online order for some mud (not "miracle mud" or the canned variety) to see if that helps any. In any case, the absurd amount of food I'll be able to flood the system with should be interesting, as well as the side-effects of doing so. I'll be curious to see what pops up or what would be possible to grow...

[Sploke]

Yeah I was going to say, are the seagrasses more substrate feeders, or do they pull nutrition directly from the water column?

As far as substrate, have you ever tried the GARF grunge? I guess thats more livesand starter culture?

[Amphiprion]

Yeah I was going to say, are the seagrasses more substrate feeders, or do they pull nutrition directly from the water column?

As far as substrate, have you ever tried the GARF grunge? I guess thats more livesand starter culture?

The only problem with it is that it is too coarse, at least IME. The best stuff I've found is the organic sludge that collects at the bottom of live rock holding tanks. The stuff is miraculous... and smelly.

[Amphiprion]

Luckily, I already have about 75% of what I need--which includes all necessary pumps, plumbing, stand, and live sand. I just need to buy some new live rock--the old stuff is going out the door. I've also already ordered everything else I need, which amounts to the 250w halide pendant and a simple HOB overflow. I opted for HOB, since the tank I bought was made with tempered glass. Plus, it should be a bit quieter than the typical drilled overflow (seeing as how this tank will be in my bedroom). All this, plus the fact that I need very little water return into the display led to my decision.

Anyway, here is the pendant I decided on, which will have a 250w HQI XM 10000K. That was the highest PAR bulb I could find for a reasonable price:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/aquamedic/spacelight-descr.jpg
http://www.fishnreef.com/images/uploads/AM-75004.JPEG

[<3Oscar]

Can't wait for photos!

[Amphiprion]

Dang, I had to rush things a bit. The livestock that was left out of the 40 started looking rough. I had just put the rock and sand in the 25 yesterday and had to move things over today. The good news is that I have enough saltwater stockpiled to change 300% of the tank and the rock is very well cured, but new. I also haven't received my overflow or halide lamp, yet, (nor is my sump complete) but livestock well-being took precedence in this case. So far, everything looks better, surprisingly, but a bit irritated. I ended up having to use the old ATS compact fluorescents @ 2700K. Makes the whole tank look yellow, but it is surprisingly bright. Pics of the ugly yellow will come tomorrow and hopefully some living livestock.

[greech]

I hope everything fairs well from the transfer. I'm sure it will all work out for the better.

[Conski]

Amph! good to see a mod doing things on the site.. its been a little dry lately! this sounds awsome and cant wait to see the result! i hope you didnt spend over 200 on your light becuase i woudlve sold my 250watt sunpod to you for 200 shipped!

[Amphiprion]

Well, everything weathered the transfer just fine, thankfully. Not only that, but several things perked up quite nicely, too. Now I just have to wait until my lamp arrives.

Conski, I appreciated the offer. This came with a brand new XM 10000K bulb for about $250, so it kinda balanced out for me. It would cost me at least $50 for a new lamp, anyway.

[Amphiprion]

Well, pics as promised. Please, don't bask in the glory that is my tank all at once (lol). It may very well be too much to handle.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0196.jpg


http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0194.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0193.jpg

[dtd87]

you didn't lie about the yellow

[Amphiprion]

you didn't lie about the yellow

Makes you really want to use these 2700K lamps, huh?

[mlefessler]

How will you incorporate the turf scrubber once sea grass has been established?

[Amphiprion]

How will you incorporate the turf scrubber once sea grass has been established?

The plan is to initially set one up as usual, with the regular 18 hour photoperiod as a means to jump start growth. Once the screen fills in, I'll probably drop that to about 12-14 hours. I can adjust the photoperiod as needed in response to nutrient dynamics and the growth of the seagrass.

[Amphiprion]

Well, the seagrass is looking awfully rough. I'm hoping at least some of it will pull through. I get my halide tomorrow, but I won't be getting my overflow box until June 2nd. Long story on the latter part. FedEx suddenly calls me up and tells me that they've been leaving the package behind for over 4 days (not counting the weekend) and without an excuse. Somebody finally noticed it and instead used USPS to tender it to another FedEx facility, where I was informed that because of that, it would require at least another 4 business days in addition to the estimated delivery date--the USPS delivery didn't even take a DAY! They delivered the **** package in two hours, according to the tracking list, so why did they need to allot another 4 days for USPS to deliver? Are they just giving themselves as much leeway as possible or do they not want to deliver my package? I'd be glad to tell them to give it USPS for them to actually deliver it. Needless to say, it will have been 15 days (counting one weekend) since I ordered the thing by the time I receive it. A bit on the ridiculous side, if you ask me. My halide fixture, which came from further away and weighed 11 lbs made it to me in 1/3 of the time via UPS. FedEx will get a formal complaint, I assure you.

[Amphiprion]

The fixture finally came in today (yay!). Here's a few pics of the actual fixture:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0191.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0190.jpg

As mentioned before, the bulb is a 250w 10000K XM lamp. To my surprise, contrary to what the website specified, the pendant came with an electronic ballast as opposed to the advertised M80 ballast. That should work out much better--in terms of heat, anyway.

[Amphiprion]

And... pics with the halide. Keep in mind the fixture is about 11" from the top of the tank (not the water's surface). I'm doing this to carefully acclimate the few corals I have in there. It's also much brighter in person. I was disappointed that the shimmer lines didn't turn out in the photo, though.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0190f.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0191-1.jpg

Now to wait for the overflow to arrive and the sump to finish curing...

[Sploke]

Those are nice lights, I almost bought the 2x250 before finding a deal on my Current fixture. Very sleek looking though. Can't wait to see some of that macro start coming back and filling in.

Did you see some of that macro got2envy is selling in classifieds? Some of those things are crazy, are you going for that kind of look?

[Amphiprion]

Those are nice lights, I almost bought the 2x250 before finding a deal on my Current fixture. Very sleek looking though. Can't wait to see some of that macro start coming back and filling in.

Did you see some of that macro got2envy is selling in classifieds? Some of those things are crazy, are you going for that kind of look?

Actually, the Ulva that is in there now is sort of a precautionary measure. I've only put it in there to soak up some extra nutrients while the seagrass attempts to fill in. Any macro will be temporary. In the end, I want nothing but the seagrass.

[Amphiprion]

Okay, my DIY acrylic sump is now complete and completely cured. I've water tested it for 5 days and it has remained completely water-tight. It won't be nearly as full as it is now, so I'd imagine that it would hold up just fine. I don't see any signs of any extreme stress on any of the seams and it has held its shape just fine. Pics tomorrow when I get it online.

[Amphiprion]

Aaaaand... pics of said sump:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/P5290048.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/P5290047.jpg

Oh, and a pic of the pup I found thrown over the fence and abandoned last year--I've had the little guy for exactly one year today, so I took a pic to commemorate. He's the cutest little devil and he's sitting next to me right now gritching at me to share some potato chips :D:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/P5290052-1.jpg

[Amphiprion]

Oh, and no bracing because the outside perimeter is exactly the size of the inside of the stand (actually butts against the sides), so there will be no chance for bowing. FYI, because I know someone would catch it eventually.

Edit: I also didn't see the need for baffles. The only thing that will be down there is my scrubber and return. I was trying to maximize space for the scrubber and I'm not seeing a giant advantage to them for this particular application. I may have to think on it...

[MGDMIRAGE]

Nice tank! That light sure looks just like my fishneedit 250w i recently bought hehe. I kinda want to get a 10k bulb too for growth but i love the 20k that i got with it.

[Amphiprion]

Thanks :D.

After sleeping on it, I decided to place a single baffle in the sump--not for a bubble trap, since the flow will be low, but to allow for a semi-refugium. It won't have any substrate, short of some rubble in a corner and I'll be placing a couple pieces of rock from the display in there, which I had planned on all along. I want minimal rock in the display--basically enough for the anemone I will eventually get to settle its foot into, if it decides to do so. I think a bit of careful arrangement should maximize sand surface area for the seagrass, as well as things like my sea cucumber which needs as much surface as possible.

[Amphiprion]

Well, I managed to get the sump running today. The only hitch I had was a slight leak in the PVC, which was easily fixed. The HOB overflow is a bit louder than some of the others I've dealt with--not sure if it is the lower flow or what, but I'm going to have to build a small standpipe to eliminate the issue. Other than that, it works beautifully. Pics later.

The scrubber will be up and running in the next few days. I've got its spot in the plumbing capped off for now. I've also have to figure out how I'm going to situate the lamps for the scrubber, as well. I have this shelf above the sump where my ballast, temp controller, and auto top-off are located--I may get some eyelets and suspend the lamps while zip tying the cord to ensure that they won't fall.

[greech]

Progress...progress...progress!!!

Very interested in seeing the sump and turf scubber being built and in action. Can you please post details your stand pipe mod to your overflow whne you get to it. I am on the "I need a sump" bandwagon again but don't want to tear my tank apart to drill and have always been concerned about noise from an overflow box (as well as the potential flood :)).

[the wizard]

Looks good. I can't wait to see it see it when it fills in. I love these build threads because being new to SW, it will help me a lot.(Once the nano reef is full, I will need something bigger to give me an excuse to continue buying corals and fish and such.) :grinyes:

[Amphiprion]

Thanks--I'm eager for it to start filling in, honestly.

greech, here's a photo of the standpipe--it's very straightforward, consisting of a 1" T and cap:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0197.jpg

The noise is minimal. There's a slight trickle into the box itself and a bit of noise as the bubbles go through the standpipe. It's certainly tolerable, IMHO.

More nighttime pics (excuse the mess and the yellowness of the room light):
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0194-1.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0201.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0200.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0199.jpg

[MGDMIRAGE]

Looks good Amph :)

[Amphiprion]

Something I wanted to make a note of, even though I won't be doing it with this system, is that this kind of setup is perfect for seahorses. The lush plant growth and algal scrubber are ideal for dealing with the waste and amounts of food the ponies will need. They'd feel right at home. If I had decided to not get an anemone, I may have gone this route again for this new setup.

[greech]

Thanks for the pic of the overflow. So if you had room to put more of a downward curved pipe on the intake would that quiet it down even more?

[Amphiprion]

Yeah, but my overflow is only one of the little 300gph max. models. Fitting that one was pushing things a bit :D.

[Amphiprion]

Okay, a few minor changes, but worth documenting nonetheless. I moved some rock into the sump to free up more sand surface area. I also ordered a small amount of extra seagrass to help things along. The fins that hang from the halide fixture were also removed, since I noticed that they were channeling light too far to the center of the tank. This made the spread too wide, so I lowered it by an inch. Now it sits ~6" from the surface. There's no splash, so that is why I was confident in lowering it a bit more, in addition to reducing as much spill as possible. I'll update with pics when the seagrass comes in.

[Amphiprion]

Well, I got the seagrass in and I actually ended up with a preponderance of Syringodium as opposed to Halophila. I did end up planting the other half of the tank with the Syringodium, though, in hopes that it may actually do well. I've got about 4" of substrate, most of which is pretty well established. Only time will tell.

On a different note, I'm having to hold off on my scrubber until it can be redesigned. As it stands now, it splashes far too much (which also makes a lot of noise in my bedroom) and takes up too much space--not to mention being rather clumsy. I'm going to have to find a better way to make it work. If not, I may have to rely on the seagrass to do the filtering for me. I'm at least going to try and see if I can't come up with a better design in the near future.

[Amphiprion]

Slight update--I've managed to make an inadvertent algal scrubber that seems to be pretty effective. For those interested, it's my glass, lol. It has a nice, thick coat of filamentous algae that looks like a shag carpet surrounding the tank. The interesting part is that there isn't a shred of it anywhere else--not on the rock, sand, or elsewhere. Just goes to show you that they can work pretty well, I suppose. The only thing that concerns me is that my scrubber won't have nearly the same surface area compared to the glass. I'm still in the midst of re-designing my current scrubber, which will hopefully yield results as good (or better than)as what my glass seems to be doing, lol. I've got to use a shorter pipe and screen, since I don't have nearly the pumping power I did in my previous tank. I'm limited to what a mag 7 can do for me. I've also considered stepping up to a mag 9.5, but I think I'll hold off on that unless it is absolutely necessary for what I need to do. For now, I think I'll trim away 25% of the current screen length, decrease the pipe aperture a good bit (it's extremely wide right now) and see where that lands me. I'll have pics of my accidental scrubber up later.

[Amphiprion]

This may have been the death knell for this tank, folks. My brand new halide fixture wouldn't accept the same bulb I took out of it and it sheared the end of the bulb off and cracked the ceramic holder. I'm awaiting the supplier's response to get my money back. Depending on what it is, I may have to abandon the tank and hobby altogether for now. I can't afford to pay for another fixture right now. The seagrass may not make it in the amount of time it'd take to get a new light, anyway. I'm debating whether or not I should even bother. I may place everything up for sale tomorrow. We'll see.

[Amphiprion]

Well, after seriously contemplating quitting outright, I found a great price on the Hamilton Cayman Sun reflector/bulb/ballast combo (this time it's mogul, not DE :)), which I then proceeded to order. These fixtures are very nice and the reflectivity is top notch. In the few tests with PAR I've seen, they outperform LumenMax III reflectors by nearly 30% using the same lamp and ballast. This is definitely a bit extra overkill, but I think the seagrass, etc. should react favorably, especially after being in the dark for almost a week. Of course, I'll have to acclimate the few corals I have left. I ordered an XM 10K lamp for it, so I should be getting just about the max PAR I can for this particular setup and wattage, short of running an HQI ballast. Pics to come tomorrow after work.

[greech]

Way to pull through. Sorry to hear about the fixture. Did you get the other one refunded?

[Amphiprion]

No. The place I ordered it from won't accept returns if the box has been opened. So no go on that. I know I'll never order from them again. Luckily, I bought this fixture direct from Hamilton. This is also their deluxe fixture that includes blue LEDs, which they didn't advertise for the particular fixture I bought. Very, very nice. The reflector itself looks exactly like a LumenMax reflector, except this one is supposed to be even better. I can only imagine what it will be like with the XM 10K lamp I ordered. I'll have pics up tomorrow. This one puts the Aquamedic fixture to shame--not as sleek, though.

Had I not gotten a recent call for some basic, but tedious IT work, I wouldn't have had the cash to get another fixture. You can imagine the expression on my face after I got the call.

[Amphiprion]

Wow, this thing puts off a lot of light, lol. Way more than the previous fixture. The spread is also a bit larger, but the intensity is clearly more. Very nice. I'll have to get pics of it up tomorrow. The power has been off and on here and the lights have already turned off for today.

[Amphiprion]

I said I wouldn't actually have any macroalgae, but I think I've changed my mind when I saw some great, healthy specimens of Penicillus capitatus. I snagged one of these and I really like the look it adds. I'm holding off on pics, still, because all 4 sides are coated in a thick, bushy carpet of filamentous algae that has been staving off algae everywhere else. Minus the glass, the inside of the tank is spotless. I'll probably scrape the front as soon as I get my turf scrubber going.

[Amphiprion]

Finally, a pic update. I think you guys will get a kick out of my makeshift algal turf "scrubber." :D There is zero algae anywhere else, unsurprisingly.

First, the scrubber on all 4 panes:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0012.jpg

Clowns loving their new home and freshly fed:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0013.jpg

New Penicillus I picked up, plus my old cucumber (going on 11 yrs):
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0014.jpg

The healthy seagrass behind the turf (really taking off now):
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0015.jpg

Once I'm able to modify some things a bit and get my scrubber going, I'm going to be leaving the algae on all 4 sides. I think I may leave the other three covered even with the scrubber. That should expand the nutrient cycling capacity considerably, along with the Ulva in the sump and display.

[DoctaQ]

thats neato amph, do you feed the cucumber?

that macro looks cool, and fish wont eat it right cuz its all calcified and whatnot?

if you get a lot of calcifying macros will you have to start dosing?

[Amphiprion]

thats neato amph, do you feed the cucumber?

that macro looks cool, and fish wont eat it right cuz its all calcified and whatnot?

if you get a lot of calcifying macros will you have to start dosing?

Thanks. No, I don't feed anything purposefully to the cucumber. It has done well on just feeding on films on the sand for all this time in the various tanks I've housed it in. The only thing I can do for it is to feed the tank heavily and often, which I do.

The Penicillus is pretty resistant to being eaten by fish, but I don't have anything that would eat it, anyway. It is doing well, though, as the siphons that come from the stalk have already grown by about a cm or so in the couple of days I've had it. I already am dosing, but I'm just using half-strength kalkwasser in my auto top-off, so no real effort needed there. I have to refresh it about once per week, which takes all of 2 minutes. So far, I'm really happy with the progress and the halide and algae truly run this system. I don't think it would be nearly as successful without the intense light and subsequent heavy plant growth. I can't wait until the grass fills out even further. The original plantings have more than tripled in number. I went from a few sprigs in the original photos to probably 60-75 individual shoots. Edit: I've also been adding it since carbonate/bicarbonate is seagrasses' main source of carbon instead of CO2.

I also want to point out how stable this system already is. I accidentally dumped a very large amount of plankton in the tank last night--the pump top on the bottle clogged and I added way too much. Basically about 6-7 mL of the stuff got added and it didn't even put a dent in this system. Nothing is worse for the wear--the "scrubber" soaked any byproducts up and I gave all the little critters a big snack.

[Amphiprion]

The tank is really starting to experience the heat. I looked today on my controller and it's currently running at 83-84 at the height of the photoperiod. A bit warmer than I anticipated, but tolerable. Luckily, nothing is worse for wear. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that my tank temperatures are slightly elevated from the start, averaging ~81-82 to start with. I'll just have to keep a close eye out to make sure it doesn't rise too much more.

[DoctaQ]

so when you mix up the kalk once a week do you have to have it in an airtight container or something? i dose with an aqualifter right now but i can only dose the alk and dose calcium by hand.

[Amphiprion]

so when you mix up the kalk once a week do you have to have it in an airtight container or something? i dose with an aqualifter right now but i can only dose the alk and dose calcium by hand.

I mix it in an airtight container, but it works out just fine having a vented container for dosing. Once it gets a thin shell on top, there is almost no reaction afterward anyway, so its good for a long, long time--much more than one week. I know some folks who mix a garbage can's worth and it sits for over a month--still good after all that time with little degradation. I think Dr. Holmes-Farley had done a similar study on it. Edit: yep, he did. Here's the link: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-05/rhf/feature/index.php

I don't really understand the second part. Are you dosing kalk or 2 part?




Edit: On a different note, my silly clownfish have begun to attempt to host the new Penicillus I added. It's in a high flow area, so watching them struggle to stay around it is quite amusing. The only catch is that they do it at night, not during the day. They are fairly active during the day, being out and about throughout the tank (not that there's that much room either way, but still).

I've also been observing a lot of other fauna in the tank. The various 'pod populations are exploding. I see hundreds of munnid isopods, gammaridean amphipods (very large ones, at that), and I'm starting to see a good number of harpacticoid copepods, as well. The heavy phytoplankton/rotifer feedings seems to be paying off in that regard. Everything seems to be booming, which granted, is typical of newer tanks, but I plan to keep it that way with this tank. More updates to follow.

[DoctaQ]

im dosing two part, i have an aqualifter that doses reef builder and i mix up a bottle of advantage calcium that i dose seperateley. my reservior is a gallon sized jug with a screw on cap that has a hole on the top of it so it doesnt get crushed when the aqualifter doses, do you think i could replace with kalk?

[Amphiprion]

im dosing two part, i have an aqualifter that doses reef builder and i mix up a bottle of advantage calcium that i dose seperateley. my reservior is a gallon sized jug with a screw on cap that has a hole on the top of it so it doesnt get crushed when the aqualifter doses, do you think i could replace with kalk?

As long as the demand isn't gigantic and pH stays reasonable, I don't see why not. It'd be much cheaper than the Seachem stuff. That's essentially what my type of setup is, except I'm using a peristaltic pump.

[DoctaQ]

im dosing 1-2 dkh a day, set up to dose two seperate times during the day, i guess switching it up to dosing at night could keep the ph more stable. my doser holds enough to dose for 8-9 days which i guess equals about 15 dkh, that would probably toast my tank if somehow it accidentally dosed the whole reservior huh? it has happened to me before that the timer fails and it doses the rest of the bottle, fortunateley there was not that much left in the reservior.

[Amphiprion]

If that happened with kalkwasser, it'd be even more catastrophic. If you aren't reasonably confident in the reliability, I wouldn't do it on a smaller tank.

Let's see--that's roughly .2 gallons of saturated kalk per day on a tank of your size. That would be an enormous increase if dosed all at one time. How much does your tank normally evaporate daily?

[DoctaQ]

close to that amount, i rareley have to top off any more, its like a top off and dose all in one

[DoctaQ]

sry i didnt realize i was taking over your thread. does the pencillus propogate itself somehow? like caleurpa or more like halemidia? since you have some monster nutrient export going on are you gonna super stock this tank?

[Amphiprion]

sry i didnt realize i was taking over your thread. does the pencillus propogate itself somehow? like caleurpa or more like halemidia? since you have some monster nutrient export going on are you gonna super stock this tank?

You're not taking over the thread, so don't worry about it. The Penicillus actually propagates via runners/rhizoids. If all goes well, I should see daughter plants literally pop out of the substrate in the vicinity of the mother.

It won't be monstrously stocked, except for the clowns and eventual anemone (whatever species). It will be fed incredibly heavily, though--far more than most folks will be comfortable with.

[OgreMkV]

Neat idea Amp,

I was going to tell you that a powerhead directed at the glass walls of the tank make a fantastic algal scrubber. That's pretty much what I've been doing in mine. About once a week, I scrape one side completely clean. Still not helping my hair algae issue though.

Looking good. I'm looking forward to seeing the grasses, and anemone.

[Amphiprion]

Interestingly enough, the algae in mine never even started growing anywhere else. That has more to do with the fact that lots of light shines right on the glass, making it a prime spot for growth. The PAR there is higher than on the rocks, so it works out.

Now for some pics after scraping some of the algae away (the thicker portions, anyway) to make room for more growth. this is showing how much the seagrass has spread from just the small handful of sprigs you see in the initial pics (and after all my newest shipment simply dissolved).

Pic with my camera shy ( :rolleyes: ) male clown:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0014-1.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0013-1.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0012-1.jpg

The amount of life in the sand, as you may be able to see, is incredible for the short amount of time I've had it. I attribute that to all the daily feeding. You'll also note how the seagrass tends to trap particulates at the base, encouraging cyanobacterial growth.

Also, the tank is much brighter in person. I'm going to have to play with the settings to try to make the intensity more representative of the actual tank. All of those seagrass leaves are constantly pearling oxygen bubbles.

[Amphiprion]

Now that I have a more appropriate tank for it, I'm considering getting a few individuals of Berghia verrucicornis, not only for the few Aiptasia that managed to pop up in this tank (no wonder with the amount of food that goes into it), but to potentially generate some extra means to fund this tank. Granted, the overhead is very low with this setup, which was the original idea, but every little bit helps.

Edit: I will have to make a plastic canvas-based cage around the nanostream, though. Easy enough to do, though.

[Ace25]

How do you plan on sustaining the feeding that Berghia's require? Won't one eat all your aiptasia within a week.. and then? Or do you plan on "renting" them out to locals, which I have seen done in the Los Angeles area quite often.

[Amphiprion]

How do you plan on sustaining the feeding that Berghia's require? Won't one eat all your aiptasia within a week.. and then? Or do you plan on "renting" them out to locals, which I have seen done in the Los Angeles area quite often.

The latter was what I had planned on. The only sustainable way for most folks, myself included, to do it.

[Amphiprion]

Great news! I'm starting to get sprouts of Syringodium that I thought had completely melted away. I can't wait to see what it does. I just happened to notice a good amount of it popping up amidst the Halophila. They weren't there a few days ago. :nilly:

[greech]

Gotta be honest, I have no idea what you are talking about but you sure sound happy so I'm happy for you :). I can say that the pics look great! Would love to try a mangrove setting one day but that will be way down the line.

[Amphiprion]

Halophila decipiens:
http://www.com.univ-mrs.fr/IRD/atollpol/ecorecat/images/haloova.jpg

Syringodium filiforme:
http://www.sms.si.edu/irlspec/images/syr-filiCWeb.jpg

Those are the two that I have. Basically, I got the Syringodium as an accidental hitchhiker along with my Halophila. All the rhizomes that I could see turned brown and simply rotted away to nothingness. There were only two little rhizomes of it, too. Lastly, my sand is a bit shallower than it usually prefers/does well in, so I wasn't terribly optimistic. That should explain why I'm pretty happy/excited about it. Cool stuff!

Oh, and a word of warning on Gracilaria--This stuff takes off like mad. I started off with a little bit and it exploded on me. I'm probably going to have to get rid of it.

[Jstdv8]

LFS should set up a tank with nothing in it but berghia's and or peppermint shrimp and charge people to bring in thier live rock and leave it there overnight to clean it up for them LOL

[Jstdv8]

one of our LFS's did this with peppermints so he could video it. Didn't charge the customer, but told people to bring in thier aip rocks. fun watchingt he peppermits pounce on the new rock like a cop on a donut... err crook.

[Amphiprion]

No Berghia yet, but news nonetheless. I finally settled on an anemone and ended up with a nice, healthy specimen of H. malu. Not what I wanted, but with the tank size, I felt I needed to compromise. I had initially planned to somewhat curb the growth of larger species, but concluded that that wasn't how I wanted to grow an anemone. Pics to come once the little guy settles down. I'll actually wipe the front glass for this one, too :D.

[Amphiprion]

Well, I stumbled across a fantastic deal locally on one of the Vortech MP40W ES pumps, so that'll be going in. While I'm reasonably satisfied with the single nanostream, I want something to create some wave-like action, as well as occasional disturbance--and the ES is just the ticket. While I don't ever plan to use anywhere close the full extent of the Vortech's power on this tank, it was hard to pass up (less than an MP10 ES). The rhythmic motion of the seagrass in the waves is something I'm looking forward to replicating.

[Amphiprion]

Another update some may find interesting: phosphate and nitrate. I began increasing my feedings here recently to correspond with the higher amounts of growth (and plants, in turn, have rewarded me with very fast growth). I'm up to feeding twice per day just for fish, which includes a whole cube of formula 1 or 2 and pellets later in the day (which tend to be worse on average in terms of N and P). I'm also feeding a whole cube of micro-foods, which basically consists of cyclops, other copepods, rotifers, and phytoplankton. This is all on a 25g (about 30 counting the sump and all the displacement). No scrubber at the moment and only some Ulva in the sump--almost all filtration is occurring directly in the display. So:

Phophate: 0.02-0.04, depending on how generous I get with food--less if I skip for a day or so. If I skip for too long, the [nitrate] will actually rise.

Nitrate: Undetectable at all times.

Basically, the uptake rate is quite heavy for the relatively small amount of plant matter I have, which I'm particularly satisfied with. I may hold off on the scrubber for longer to see how much it can handle once it has really filled in. I shudder to think of the amount of food I'd need to keep the system stable if I were to add a scrubber at the moment. I can barely keep up as it is. As much as I don't like the idea, since nitrogen is always exceedingly low in most marine environments, I may actually have to start adding KNO3 a la FW planted tank style along with the food. I can bet that with a tiny amount, I'd probably be able to drive the phosphate concentration to undetectable.

More updates to come when the Vortech MP40W ES comes in.

[Amphiprion]

Well, no time for pics (it's been a long week for me), but I did get the new Vortech MP40w EcoSmart pump in and installed. Now for my first impressions. The pump is large, but fortunately, only part of it is in the water. You can't beat the low-profile in the tank. Second, it's louder than the other models and louder than my old Tunze 6100. The Tunze was the size of a camcorder, though. The Tunze also had much, much more flow volume and was about as broad, if not slightly more. It also had the benefit of being positioned, which is something I miss with this Vortech. However, what it lacks in those categories is very largely makes up for them in terms of sheer controllability. It is by far the most versatile controllable pump out there and the features are incredible. Of course, my favorite feature is the wave resonance generation. Very cool feature. The flow is gentle and broad, as described everywhere you see. While far from perfect, I am very pleased with it. If I had to choose between it and a Tunze stream, I'd likely go with the Vortech for controllability and Tunze for volume (both audible volume and flow volume). Ideally, I'd have both in place for the best of both worlds.

[Ace25]

I agree completely with you on the noise level... vortechs are annoyingly noisy because of the driver being on the outside of the tank. I had read about the noise levels being a problem before I bought mine but they were 50/50 being "too noisy, I am returning it" to.... "Noisy the first week, but they break in and get quieter, and now I don't even hear mine". Well, mine never got any quieter and the "wave" or short pulse mode is just way to annoying for me. Sounds like a race motorcycle taking off from a stop to race each time the vortech turns on in wave mode.. imagine a constant "Waaaah!... quiet .. Waaaah" (a race motorcycle sound, hard to type that). In a small apartment you can't fall asleep with that.. so I use the lagoon mode (I think, it is purple light on the controller).

[Conski]

I have mine on lagoon as well.. my mp20 is to powerful for my tank most other modes make water splash out of the tank.. lagoon is quiet.. and ace your noise description is perfect haha

[Amphiprion]

Mine's in nutrient transport mode until the nighttime, when it gets switched to "night mode." I've never been a fan of night mode on any of these controllable pumps, since night conditions are variable, not necessarily always slower. But I had to make a compromise, since this tank is in my bedroom next to my bed. I would prefer to get some sleep.

[Amphiprion]

Big photo update with clean front glass. The water is still a bit cloudy from the work I did.

Mostly FTS:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0032.jpg

Clowns in seagrass and anemone. They will lay on the grass sometimes:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0024-1.jpg

Grand appearance:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0027-1.jpg

Closeup of grass on front left, which is starting to really fill in:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0026-1.jpg

My oldest coral:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0028.jpg

[Amphiprion]

Out of dumb, blind luck, I've stumbled across something that may well be important. After searching through some species of Halophila trying to figure out why my grass never really filled out to a broader leaf shape like it is supposed to, I realized that it likely is not H. decipiens. The grass I am now convinced I have, especially after seeing mature leaf structures, is H. johnsonii. The problem here is that this species is endangered and protected, lol. I found the pics and needless to say I pulled a :jaw-dropping:. Not really sure what I need to do. Here's a pic--you be the judge:

http://www.pbcgov.com/erm/lakes/estuarine/lake-worth-lagoon/_images/jpg/Seagrass3.jpg

H. johnsonii
http://www.sms.si.edu/IRLSpec/images/hal-johnAWeb.jpg
http://www.pbcgov.com/erm/lakes/estuarine/lake-worth-lagoon/_images/jpg/Seagrass4.jpg

Mine:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0013-1.jpg

It even has the little brown patches on the leaves like H. johnsonii

[Ace25]

Where did you get it from? It does look exactly like h. johnsonii to me. Somehow I doubt the authorities are going to be knocking down your door to confiscate the sea grass. ;) It wasn't like you had this evil plan on getting something that was endangered, it was an honest mistake and it looks very close to the other grass you wanted.

[Amphiprion]

Where did you get it from? It does look exactly like h. johnsonii to me. Somehow I doubt the authorities are going to be knocking down your door to confiscate the sea grass. ;) It wasn't like you had this evil plan on getting something that was endangered, it was an honest mistake and it looks very close to the other grass you wanted. Nah, I'm not expecting any door breaking or anything of the sort. I'm just wondering if it is legal to possess it to begin with, even if the law was followed. I'm planning on just holding onto it and pass it along. Who knows, maybe it will contribute to conservation in the future.

[Amphiprion]

Well, I'm now feeding 3 cubes (edit: sometimes 4, like today) of food daily, plus pellets in this 25g. We'll see how this works out, because so far, the growth has been keeping everything down. Theoretically, I should be able to feed a good deal more than that without much worry. I'm just going to be ramping it up slowly, though.

[Amphiprion]

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0023-1.jpg

This is a pic of the grass growing under the shade of a rock and a piece of Ulva (one of the only pieces left). It is actually growing up the glass and well above the substrate (which, due to flow, is non-existent here). It has officially circumnavigated the tank, now.

[Amphiprion]

Well, after being busy for about a week and unable to feed the tank as often as I need, I've noticed some issues. The grasses in the front have yellowed noticeably, which concerns me a bit. I'm working on feeding very heavily for a few day (~5x daily, 4 cubes per day) to see if that makes a difference. I may have to start heavily broadcast feeding phytoplankton, too. I'll see how the increased feeding works. Phosphate and nitrate are now undetectable.

[Amphiprion]

Well, the yellowing has spread to more of the front-most plants and some of them are beginning to rot away. That's kinda what I was afraid of. To hopefully help combat this, in addition to the extra food, I've purchased some root tabs that are used in FW planted tanks and inserted several amongst the yellowed grasses. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do in the areas where the grass has died. I've also tuned the Vortech a bit higher to hopefully curb and potential diseases, which may spread with more decay in stagnant areas.

[Amphiprion]

Wow. Woke up to a milky white tank this morning. Luckily, everything is still alive. There wasn't any kalkwasser left in the container, but it was already empty yesterday afternoon, so that didn't cause it. The only thing I can attribute it to is the plant tabs. I think one may still be exposed to the water column, but I can't find it in the middle of the grass. As long as the fish and few corals are fine with it, I can live with some temporary cloudiness. We'll see what happens. I'll be mixing some water for a water change tonight just in case.

[Conski]

Hope all your progress doesnt turn to crap with this man.. good luck

[Amphiprion]

I don't *think* it will. Like I said, everything still seems to be good hours later, but it's still pretty cloudy. I doubt there will be any significant algae issues, either. I just don't want anything potentially happening to my fish and corals. I know the grasses and algae can handle the rest, though.

[Rollinondubz200]

that sux man this is a sweet tank would hate to see it crash

[Amphiprion]

Well, still pretty cloudy. Everything still doing fine, as usual. Unfortunately, the seagrass still looks pretty rough. More and more of the front portions are simply turning yellow, then brown, and rotting. Not sure what to think or if it will affect the rest of the population. It can't be any sort of anoxia, because seagrasses thrive in anoxic substrates to begin with. They are also fully capable of coping with hydrogen sulfide. I can still only suspect a fairly extreme N deficiency.

[Amphiprion]

LOL, I can't win. My brand new return pump crapped out on me (I obviously have terrible luck with returns). It's been running sumpless for 3 days now until I have the time and opportunity to fix it. I've got an air pump running in the sump to keep that going, but the display looks fine in terms of the animals. Nothing looks out of order. Unfortunately, my poor seagrass continues to die at an alarming rate. I've already got fairly large dead patches in previously very healthy stands. I'm no longer sure exactly what is doing it, since it is still doing it after purposely adding potassium nitrate (and getting a measurable reading). I guess all I can do is wait and see.

[Ace25]

Wow.. you are really having terrible luck with equipment.. you sure you didn't anger the sea gods in a previous life? Lights.. pumps.. have you had a heater fail yet? May be time to get one ready just in case. ;)

[Amphiprion]

Wow.. you are really having terrible luck with equipment.. you sure you didn't anger the sea gods in a previous life? Lights.. pumps.. have you had a heater fail yet? May be time to get one ready just in case. ;)

I have spares of just about everything now. Probably won't help my luck, though. I think I may end up just springing for an Eheim or something to that effect.

[Amphiprion]

Ugh, brand new return is making this awful vibration. I've done everything I can think of to stop it, ranging from cleaning the entire housing and impeller to cushioning the pump with styrofoam. None of it works. I've finally broken down and purchased a Tunze Silence pump. We'll see if it lives up to its name. I'll reserve the Laguna pump I have now as a(nother) backup.

[DoctaQ]

sounds like you have enough equipment to set up another tank now huh

[greech]

I recently bought the Sicce version of that pump and after running a Mag 5 for 2 days all I can say is WOW!. The pumps are not dead silent but I am very happy with the minimal noise level.

[Amphiprion]

sounds like you have enough equipment to set up another tank now huh

Now that you mention it, you're probably right. But I'd rather not do that--I'd rather stop having to buy more equipment, honestly. It seems constant.

[Conski]

I'd rather stop having to buy more equipment, honestly. It seems constant.

i feel you man haha

[Amphiprion]

On the upside, the weird die-off problem has subsided and the grass seems to be recovering, albeit slowly. Tank as a whole looks to be doing pretty well, which I'm happy with. The infaunal diversity along with grass is incredible. It is really coming together as a little ecosystem. It's entirely different from a reef, but really just as rewarding in the end--to me at least. In the long term, I hope to have such a setup in conjunction with the reef to help simulated the kind of habitat you'd normally see. I'd also like to include a bit in the reef display itself. A macroalgae flat, as you'd also see in nature, would be great to include as well. The concept of all this isn't new, but something I'm definitely considering in the future.

[Amphiprion]

Okay, so I finally worked up the courage to order a large amount of various frozen foods. As such, I've decided to change up my feeding regimen a bit. The fish still get fed 2-3x daily, ranging from pellets, and one or two cubes of frozen. The fish also get a couple of pumps of Liquid Life marine plankton, which is basically cyclopeeze paste. I am also now adding approximately 2 tablespoons of phytoplankton twice daily, as well as about 1/4 teaspoon of oyster eggs nightly. I may increase the amount of phyto over time, too.

[Amphiprion]

I took a look at the tank at night for the first time in a while and I see tons and tons of particulates. Upon closer inspection, there are millions of very, very fine filaments floating around. At first, I though a cluster of bristleworms were ground into bits by my Vortech. So, I sat with the flash light and observed. To my surprise, they curl and move. There is some absurd amount of larval action occurring in this tank without my knowledge. We're talking millions of these things and they have to be some sort of polychaete. I wish I could get a picture of them, but they are too small to resolve on any camera I have access to.

[Amphiprion]

This will hopefully be my last update for a while. At any rate, I finally got the Tunze Silence pump in and all I can say is wow. I can't speak for greech, but let's just say that the water moving into the overflow, which only has about an inch of freefall, is louder than this pump. When everything else is turned off, you still cannot hear it. Perfect for what I was looking for and it was more powerful than the 1200 gph Laguna pump I was using. I can wholeheartedly recommend these.

[leocom2000]

That's sad..I would like to know what is going on with your tank even if nothing bad is happening. I like pics too.:worthy:

[Amphiprion]

I appreciate you checking in. I meant to type last update on bad news, not update period. Sorry about the misunderstanding from my typo. I'll have more pics soon. Right now, I've gotten rid of all the macroalgae and it is now officially a seagrass only tank. New shoots are filling in and it will be closer to what I had originally envisioned. So exciting things to come, hopefully.

[Amphiprion]

Some pics I shot from the side while I had some spare time (a bit yellow since I haven't used carbon in a little while):

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0027-2.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0026-2.jpg

[Conski]

looks really awsome man! wish i could find some sea grass to plant in my tank on my little planted side. i look the natural look!

[Amphiprion]

Well, things haven't changed much, except for the death of pretty much all my macroalgae. Oddly enough, the grasses finally just outcompeted it. The Ulva, Gracilaria, etc. just stopped doing very well, became covered in algae, and started dying. So, it's 100% seagrass now, which was, I suppose, my original plan--though I didn't expect it to turn out quite like this. One big change/difference I'm noticing is an insurgence of epiphytes and other clingers-on. One whole patch, I noticed, actually has small pinnate hydroids, which are intricate and somewhat beautiful. It's starting to resemble a real bed now, too, which I like. My whole plan was for it to look as natural as possible and that seems to be coming along really, really well.

On another note, I broke down and bought a small colony of Pocillopora a few days ago, unsure of how even it would do in the tank. Interestingly, it looks great and has extended growth only a couple of days after purchasing it, which shows promise. It is also turning pink, which I like. I'll see how it does, as I think a single Pocillopora damicornis colony above a bed of seagrass would look incredibly realistic. I'd also like to see how something like Acropora would do, especially with so many people insisting on absolutely pristine conditions--which my tank is pristine in terms of dissolved N and P. But it has a lot of bound N and P in food items, which is one of the major things I see missing in many tanks. I'll keep things updated as I have time.

[Ace25]

If you can find a way to kill pocillopora, let me know. ;) I gave away my big colony years ago when I found out it was spreading everywhere... even after tearing down my tank, moving, and setting it back up (with in 4 hours) the small pieces I had growing on my bulkheads/returns still lived without water and are still thriving to this day. Today I have a mini colony growing on one of my bulkheads. They have to be one of the hardiest corals I have had experience with... short of things like mushrooms.

I think you should try out a Bali Green Slimer for an Acro, or a "Blue Tipped Slimer", those are very hardy and would probably do well in your tank.. well.. better than most other acros I can think of.

[Amphiprion]

I know they can withstand a lot. The Pocillopora wasn't placed in there as a litmus test (though I was slightly concerned, especially since the water is pretty yellow right now and alkalinity is at about 5), but as a long term resident. I really just want one colony in the whole tank and this species fit the bill due to its range of habitat preferences. I actually wanted to try a small frag of one of the more "sensitive" species and just see how it progresses. I'm wondering how the differing environment would affect them as compared to the norm. In my old 75, I could sit there and take just about any Acropora I wanted, beat it against the wall, stomp on it, bake it, and throw it in the tank and have it spawning growing prolifically the next month and thereafter. That is until Pocillopora killed most of them :D My luck just hasn't been nearly as good in these more recent iterations. I'm betting that if calcium, alkalinity, etc. are in check, they'd fare much better than would be expected by some. They won't have retina seething color, but I bet I could push growth rates fairly high, especially with the amounts I feed. Either way, they'd be a temporary inhabitant, though.

[Amphiprion]

Well, I've decided that I need to return my anemone to the LFS. He decided to uproot himself and float about. Luckily, the vortech has a foam guard on it. At any rate, I suspected this would eventually happen with the rapid growth of the seagrass. It has literally begun to choke out anything in and on the sand bed. The stuff is far, far more invasive than I ever expected. My red open brain is in miserable shape, so when I return the anemone, I'm going to get a small rock to elevate it above the blades. Other than that, the tank as a whole is doing spectacularly. The grass just continues to grow at breakneck speed.

[Amphiprion]

Well, it seems I'm coming to a bit of a crossroads. I'm actually starting to have a serious problems with some pretty, but unbelievably invasive hydroids. The little guys absolutely cover the leaves within a matter of days. I'm thinking I may have to cut back on feeding somewhat dramatically to help try to get rid of them. I am also considering running either a filter sock (which I hate) and/or a protein skimmer (which I wanted to avoid) to help reduce particulates and foodstuffs in the water column. I'd much rather just employ a small skimmer. So, that being said, any ideas on good, slimline skimmers? I was looking into the Tunze 9002, but it has been a while since I've been in the market for a protein skimmer, so I no longer know what most consider to be "good." I see what looks to be high quality skimmers, but they are hulkingly huge, which is not something I want. Hence my automatic drift toward the Tunze nano.

[greech]

The 9002's work really good for their size/price. My LFS has one running on a RSM and its doing great. The only complaint I have heard is that the skimmer cup is too small but I believe a inTank.com sells a larger custom cup.

After a fair bit of research and checking out quite a few skimmers at MACNA, I really like the SWC 120 cone skimmer. It has a very small footprint, is very quiet and gets great reviews. Price is around $225 so a bit more than the Tunze but can also handle a larger load. HTH.

[Amphiprion]

I saw the SWC skimmer and it came highly recommended. The downside is that it is a bit taller than what I can accommodate. The whole stand and sump were custom designed and built by me with being skimmerless in mind. I had zero plans to actually include one and I still may not. I may just look into some mechanical filtration, though I think a skimmer would prove to be more beneficial on the whole compared to plain mechanical filtration. If I do get one, I may experiment with it being off for a period of time, say, at night.

[Amphiprion]

Well, no skimmer and very few changes made. I suppose the only one worth mentioning is the fact that I added one of my modded Tunze 6025s. I noticed that even with the Vortech MP40 at almost full output was beginning to not be enough. At least not random enough for me. I basically have the Vortech on 100% in short pulse mode, making wave energy, while the Tunze is on all the time. Not too bad. I'm hoping it will help cleanse the leaves a bit. I haven't kept track of it so much, since it is hard to quantify, but I'm getting short bursts of 3000gph with the Vortech and ~1500gph with the Tunze. That's fairly hefty for a 25g with nothing but seagrass and a few corals. It seems necessary so far, IMHO, though.

[Lab_Rat]

Any updated pics?

[Amphiprion]

No, no pics. I'm actually embarrassed to display it at the moment, since the grass has done a fine job in generating tons of detritus. Colonial hydroids have grown on many leaf surfaces and caused the leaves to trap said detritus, which, as you may well guess, leads to cyanobacterial and other epiphytic growth. So, to make a long story short, while the grass is alive and growing, it looks terrible.

[Amphiprion]

Well, adding the extra water motion seems to have helped things out dramatically in terms of cosmetics. The grasses seem healthier and perkier than they were previously. At the very least, they aren't covered with detritus and/or cyanobacteria quite like they were. Aiptasia are still a fairly severe ongoing issue, though. That will be the next one to be addressed--maybe another bristle-tailed filefish...

Anyway, here are some pics of how things are looking at the moment. The water is always slightly hazy due to the amount of particulates in this display, which is one reason pests do so well. Let me know what you guys think of the tank as it matures.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0003-1.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0001-1.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC_0004.jpg

[Robert04]

wow, your clowns are so orangeeeeeee lol I wish I had some beautiful specimens like that but my pink skunk clowns won't let me :-P

[Amphiprion]

The large female is a wild-caught specimen I've had for a good long while. The tank-raised smaller male isn't quite as vibrant, but not bad nonetheless.

On another note, a small update. I managed to get a new fan to go on the tank. This time, it is a pedestal fan instead of a box fan, which allows for positioning and a much more efficient job with about 1/4 of the noise, or less. It also dropped the mean temp down to 82 degrees from about 86-87 F--one big reason my bright pink Pocillopora decided to turn a pretty brown for me.

[Amphiprion]

One last note I've just realized is that the tank is now officially 6 months old. It feels like a year already, but the progress has been substantial in a very short period of time.

[Amphiprion]

So, I've been thinking about things to do to minimize epiphytic growth on my grasses. I think I may finally start using an algal scrubber again, though I don't think it will be in-sump. I may opt for the classic bucket method, except with a more appealing container. I may even build a cabinet around it. This is all assuming that space constraints allow for it. I may also have to do away with the pedestal fan I'm using and break down and buy a nicer, quiet fan, like the Tunze ones. I may have to be forced to use the sump due to issues like keeping the few bits of macroalgae in there alive, though. Heat from a second set of lamps is also a concern. It's something I'm going to have to think about. I think if I scale everything from my previous scrubber down, it may be the most manageable form I can get given all circumstances.

[Lady G]

Wow Amp, your luck is as good as mine! Sorry to hear all the troubles you have had!! Still a very nice looking tank IMO.
Good luck with everything, hope everything starts looking up for you very soon....you have worked so hard for it, you deserve the best!!!!

[Amphiprion]

An update after a long while. No pics, though. Anyway, the tank has been on cruise control and the grasses have slowed their growth. However, there is now quite a bit of algae and detritus, the former of which is likely due to a nitrogen deficiency (which could also explain the grass slowing). Certain grasses look better, while others look worse. For example, my Halophila, for lack of a better way to describe it, is on the decline, while my Halodule is growing extremely well. Aiptasia has also become a gigantic issue, as they spread ever further. So, the tank is just a giant sink of overgrowth in terms of everything--grasses, algae, detritus, and Aiptasia. The latter has resulted in an utter loss of planktonic organisms, which is devastating, since I had so much for so long.

So, to the next plan. I am very, very much considering starting anew. Same tank, new sand (relatively speaking), fresh mud (both organic and inorganic), and new, scoured/quarantined rock. It will be in an observation tank for a few weeks to make darn sure no Aiptasia are available. I will select a few clean blades of grasses to make sure that there are none on them, as well. As for the corals with the Aiptasia, I may decide to get rid of them... Haven't decided on that part, yet.

[Ace25]

Have you put any thought into Berghia nudibranchs? I ordered 6 in early December from berghia.net, just waiting for them to be ready to ship. I am at my whits end with aiptasia and hoping the nudibranchs can do the trick for me and not get eaten by my wrasses. They are very expensive little buggers.. 6 cost me over $100. The only bad part is I am not sure if the nudibranchs will be able to do the job since I have so many aiptasia. I know it will take many months even if they do work, but there is a chance the aiptasia will continue to multiply as they are getting eaten.

[Amphiprion]

I did and even ordered some. I went out of my way to cover every pump, slit, etc. with foam, and dial down the Vortech, too. Unfortunately, it was the seagrass, indirectly speaking, that did them in. When it grows that densely, they have trouble moving about and finding each other. I ordered 3 for my tank alone and they still eventually dwindled out over a few months. I saw them, but never saw eggs or even signs of new ones. Aiptasia populations continued to soar and after 4 months, I finally gave up on them. I never saw them again, nor did I see any dent in Aiptasia. I'm a firm believer that they will work given the right circumstances--mine were just far from ideal.

[Ace25]

Hmmm... I am wondering if it may be a better idea for me to take some aiptasia covered rocks out of my display and put them in my QT tank with the nudibranchs. That way I don't have to worry about predators and it will hopefully give them a chance to lay some eggs so I can get a bigger population before I put some in my main tank. I really don't think nudibranch eggs would stand a chance in my main tank.. snail eggs on the glass get eaten within an hour of lights on when my wrasses wake up so I bet the same would happen to nudibranch eggs since they look similar.

[Amphiprion]

Another update. I've been adding a pinch (very empirical amount) of KNO3 daily. It is never enough to register on any test kit, but it is making a difference. Phosphate levels dropped almost immediately--no surprise there. Algae also started dying off. I just did a water change for the first time in, oh, 6 months or so, which probably helped a bit, but that was just a few days ago. So far, so good. Now to deal with the Aiptasia...

[Lady G]

Crossing my fingers for ya Amp!

[Amphiprion]

Well, setbacks and more setbacks. Luckily, these aren't necessarily tank-related. The requirements of a secondary job have left me with so little time. The tank, for the most part, is in auto-pilot, which is good, but my teardown schedule has been pushed back even further. I noticed today that the grass growth is going through a spurt--not only in noticeable growth, but I'm getting the larger die-offs again, which means the grass has shifted into high gear again. More growth means higher turnover/lifespan.

On the same subject of grass and turnover/lifespan, when I redo this system, I may very well do away with H. decipiens/johnsonii that I have in there now. It's been a great, hardy, ultra-fast growing grass, but the stuff creates a nightmarish mess when a whole rhizome (some 200+ shoots) decides to self-destruct. Literally globs of cyanobacteria (handfuls) and dead grass blades fill an entire section of the tank. The newer shoots fill in within very short order, only to have another section start again. The only time this circle of life and death slowed was when either nutrient levels were more scarce or when the temperature was a good deal lower (say, in the mid to lower 70s). Anyway, just some ramblings.

[Amphiprion]

Well, I broke down and purchased a skimmer, finally. I didn't want to and, if it had not been for the sheer amount of detritus to contend with the high grass turnover, I wouldn't have. But, given the amount of it in the system and the overall size of the system itself, I think this is one of the circumstances where the use of a skimmer is genuinely warranted. I don't use or need a turf scrubber with the amount of grass in the system and there are tons of particulates in this heavily-fed system. At first, I think, I'm going to only run the device for about half the day at a time and see how that works. I also considered a filter sock/bag, but that would be more maintenance and upkeep than I'd like to bother with. In any case, if anyone is interested, I went and purchased a Bubble Magus NAC3+, which I felt was more than enough for the system, hence my decision to only run it part of the day. Of course, the noise level overall will be somewhat of a deciding factor in the length of time it runs, too. It is in my bedroom, after all, and is darn near silent as it is. I don't want too much noise as I'm trying to sleep.

[Ace25]

Curious to hear what you think of the noise level on the NAC3+. If it is anything like the NAC7 it is, in my opinion, completely silent. The loudest thing in my tank now is my ATS, which just sounds like a "water feature" that one would put in their living room, those little things with rocks/water that trickles and recirculates.

Quite the opposite on my 29G in my bedroom though, the stupid AquaC Remora is ridiculously loud, especially for a bedroom.

[Amphiprion]

That's what I've heard and that helps to ease my concerns. I made a slight error in which skimmer I chose--I actually got the NAC3.5 cone skimmer, not the regular cylindrical one. It will be a tight squeeze as far as actually clearing the stand, but once there, it will have lots of room. One of the many benefits to having a custom self-made acrylic sump.

[Slappy*McFish]

Quite the opposite on my 29G in my bedroom though, the stupid AquaC Remora is ridiculously loud, especially for a bedroom.
The Remora is indeed pretty loud...lol.
I quieted my Remora by packing a little filter wool around the intake/injector area (left side) inside the skimmer beneath the cup. Not a lot, just enough to dampen the sound.

[Amphiprion]

Well, I finally got the skimmer in and I am thoroughly impressed with how quiet it is. The only minor detail that had to be adjusted was the air intake, which was initially louder than ideal. I simply took an old prescription bottle, punched a hole for the tube in the cap and a few other holes for the intake on the other side, and filled all the middle with cotton. Almost silent now. Also, I set the skimmer up at about 4 pm and by about 10 pm, there was over an inch of skimmate. Not terribly surprised or impressed with the amount, but rather the amount of time required. I suspect it will have plenty to remove. At least now I know that I can leave it on at night without it being a hindrance to my sleep.

[Amphiprion]

Okay, so one thing I don't like about the skimmer (well, to be fair, this is with pinwheel and meshwheel skimmers, in general) is that when a bit of seagrass gets caught between the pins, it rapidly, dramatically degrades performance. I think anyone may well imagine the sheer amount of debris, blades, etc., that make it to the skimmer. When factoring that in, that means that I may have to clean the skimmer pump every other day or so. I'm hoping to make a "box" of some sort with some screen that could possibly stop larger fragments from entering, which would normally clog the pinwheel.

[Amphiprion]

As in my "Can't Stand it anymore" thread, I've torn down my old system and disposed of almost all live rock, etc. I got rid of 99% of my grasses (I ended up keeping a sprig of each of the two grasses, both verified to be free of Aiptasia after observing for 24 hours). Basically, the new system won't be housing any rock, thoughI may decide on a single small piece later for aesthetics. It has a deep sand bed of about 5", since I'd like to try other species of grasses. Everything else is pretty much the same:

--25g 18x18x18 cube
--250w halide w/ Iwasaki 6500K
--Custom 15 gallon DIY acrylic sump
--Vortech MP40w ES
--Bubble Magus NAC3+

I also currently have a quarantine/Aiptasia elimination system temporarily set up. It consists of an old Marineland Eclipse 12 with a single 250 gph powerhead and 2-40w 3700K spiral CFLs and 1-30w 6500K spiral CFL. This system houses a single pieces of rock and all (only 4) corals in my old system, which are completely infested with Aiptasia. I will be adding Aeolidinella ("Berghia") sea slugs to this tank, which should do better in the lower flow and smaller size tank with an abundance of food. And now for pics:

Sad-looking display (lights out):
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00003.jpg

Clowns' temporary home and closeup of Aiptasia farm:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00006.jpg

A better shot of the Aiptasia rock:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00007.jpg

The two lovebirds and the other side of the quarantine:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00009.jpg

A broader view of the jury-rigged setup:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00011.jpg

Before anyone says it, yes, the tank is yellow and the light is yellow. But, the option was cheap and it is working for the time being, lol. If necessary, I have another halide I can use, but I'd like to stay away from that.

[Ace25]

I just thought it was yellow because that is your preference. LOL. I doubt the kelvin of the light is going to really make much difference. Corals may not be too happy with the intensity but they should at least survive short term.

I guess I am going to do what your doing.. using my QT tank as a berghia tank. I have spent way to much of my time trying to get my $150 back from my berghia order back in December. I can't even get a response from berghia.net. I sent an email asking for a refund and got a response:


I understand completely. These folks have been through some difficult times health wise. I'll forward this over to their office for tracking. Please be sure to advise them of the name for the check and the correct mailing address. Office email is berghia.office@yahoo.com so they will have it when someone is able to return and take care of this for you.

So I sent an email like I was instructed and never heard a word back. I then tried to dispute the charges with my CC and got nothing but a big run around. So I guess I am just stuck waiting to see if they ever ship them. I think my current plan for my tank is to just order all new rock from Marco Rocks and start over..

[Amphiprion]

Surprisingly, the intensity isn't a bad as you might think. It is bright enough to induce quite a bit of oxygen bubbles. It's not nearly as intense as my 250w, but I think it'll do temporarily.

If I had to get rock again, I'd probably start off with marcorocks with some live rock quarantined w/ Berghia/Aeolidinella. I'm not about to go through all of that with the risk of Aiptasia ever again.

[Tiny Reefer]

Very interesting thread, thank you for sharing. Your experiences were completely different from my own sea grass build. I have started another build two days ago. I will be trying the same kind of grasses but a different substrate. What changes do you plan?

[Amphiprion]

A few major changes. One is the depth and composition of the substrate. I've decided to incorporate mud into the substrate this time--about 5 lbs worth. The sand is much finer overall this time, as well. I've also made it about 2 inches deeper than in the previous build, so it tops out at about 5 inches. One other big change is the amount of initial organic content. I've lowered the initial introduction of organics quite a bit. I think this may help the tank overall, despite slowing growth a bit.

Additionally, I've decided to change the overall species composition. While I did manage to save one piece of Halophila decipiens and one piece of Halodule beaudettei each, I think I want to focus on the latter, maybe even with a small introduction of Thalassia testudinum. I'm thinking of adding a sprig or two to see what happens. Edit: I've also decided to more actively prune everything back. While I do want it to fill in, I want the seagrasses to remain healthier overall. I think allowing them to completely fill in was a mistake. I'll be pruning both leaves and rhizomes, too. The sand bed of the old system was completely compacted and bound together. I was able to literally pick up about a quarter of the bed at a time and toss it.

Other than that, though, I think it is going to be largely the same. I'm aiming for heavy feeding regimes that promote very high invertebrate diversity, as well as feeding the fish generously. Without Aiptasia, the diversity and overall numbers should explode.

Would you mind sharing your build or even starting a new thread about it? I'd love to hear how your particular build will start and progress.

[Benson]

Nice thread Amp... it's good to see you push through all the troubles... I will keep that in mind as I work through problems with my new FOWLR tank... soon to be a reef tank!!!

[Amphiprion]

Nice thread Amp... it's good to see you push through all the troubles... I will keep that in mind as I work through problems with my new FOWLR tank... soon to be a reef tank!!!

Thanks! The best advice that I can give you in light of everything is to make things easier for yourself. Quarantine and look for problems instead of just waiting for them to manifest. Deal with it before it becomes an issue. Unfortunately, I took the cheaper/lazier route and ended up with a small nightmare in the end.

[Amphiprion]

Getting the shipment of more live sand tomorrow from two different sources. I'm also going to one of the LFSs to pick up a bit of sand, etc. as well. The algae/seagrass shipment should be coming in, as well, so it will be a busy day. I've got Halodule beaudettei and Thalassia testudinum coming--not sure how the latter will do, but we'll see.

[Amphiprion]

Well, the grasses and live sands came in today. So far, I ended up getting a few extras, like a few extra shoots of Thalassia as well as a nice surprise of Syringodium, though only one of the latter. Other than that, I got a boatload of shoal grass--more than enough to fill the tank.

[Ace25]

waiting on the pics now. ;) :cheers:

[Amphiprion]

waiting on the pics now. ;) :cheers:

They're coming, but the tank is like soup right now. It will likely be a day or so until it clears. I'll definitely have some pics up when it can be seen.

[Amphiprion]

Okay, some pics as promised. I added some phytoplankton, which made the water appear quite yellow-green. As a result, I adjusted the white balance a bit so that it looked closer to the way it did yesterday. You can see the onset of diatoms from the pics as well.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00019.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00016.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00015.jpg

This order of shoal grass was ridiculous. I ordered one unit of it and this is about a third of what I actually received. I also ordered 2 Thalassia shoots and got 4. The portions were overly generous. You can see the single thicker-bladed Syringodium in the middle and the obvious Thalassia blades in the back. Hopefully all does well. I'm waiting for the initial die-back that almost always occurs I'm expecting a big comeback afterwards, though. I'm also enjoying the various textures of the sand. The several sources of live sand I received have made a fairly diverse particle size distribution. Looks very, very similar to the sandy areas I've seen in grass beds in the Caribbean.

[Amphiprion]

Quick update--not much to talk about, short of the fact that I've finally placed my fish back into the system. They're thrilled. The tank is also finally clearing up, but is still somewhat hazy. The other good news is that the grasses are already sprouting! I was especially surprised to see the Thalassia already pushing out new shoots. One thing I did do for these, in particular, was to place small bits (~1/10th) of a plant fertilizer tablet at their bases. These tabs have some nitrogen, phosphorus, iron, as well as potassium, so it should give the Thalassia a good head start. The shoal and oar grass has sprouted some new shoots, as well. Pics to come when the tank clears and I get the opportunity.

[Benson]

Congrats Amp...

[Amphiprion]

Some pics:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00021.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00022.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00024.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00025.jpg

The little extra sprouts of oargrass were not purposely planted. They popped up from a single sprig I planted in the front corner The older leaves on the shoal grass have died back, but are sprouting green again, as you can see. Unfortunately, I couldn't really get a decent pic of the Thalassia sprouting. It's getting there, though. I am happy with it so far.

[Ace25]

ok, this is killing me and I have to know, why don't you clean the sides and back glass/powerhead/overflow box of all the dust? Toothbrush would take like 2 minutes on your size tank. LOL. Just one of those things that would drive me crazy, guess one my of OCD things, cleaning glass. Grass is looking good, nice to see new green things popping up.

[Slappy*McFish]

Just curious...are you dosing a carbon source, Amp?

[Amphiprion]

ok, this is killing me and I have to know, why don't you clean the sides and back glass/powerhead/overflow box of all the dust? Toothbrush would take like 2 minutes on your size tank. LOL. Just one of those things that would drive me crazy, guess one my of OCD things, cleaning glass. Grass is looking good, nice to see new green things popping up.

Two things: 1) a touch of laziness and 2) the dust is actually clay dust from the Fiji Mud. If I disturb it, it will take days to settle again, making it look much the same. It is too fine for even my filter socks, so I don't really have a way to deal with it, unless I keep stirring it up until the skimmer removes all of it (or it settles into the sump).



Just curious...are you dosing a carbon source, Amp?

Nope, other than what the skimmer incorporates via aeration. The grasses also effectively use carbonate alkalinity, so I don't worry about it too much. I suppose there would be a boost in growth from an additional, readily available source, though.

[Amphiprion]

Quick semi-update:
Just got past a months-long battle with dinoflagellates. I had been using a protein skimmer since day one on this system and never thought of it as an impediment. However, considering the luck people have had with higher pH, kalkwasser, and dinoflagellates, the idea occurred to me to unplug the skimmer. A few weeks of running without extra aeration and allowing the pH to run its diurnal course, the dinoflagellates completely disappeared. It ended up working far better than expected. I knew this was the main factor simply because nothing else, including feeding schedules had been altered.

Beyond that, not much has changed. The grass has secretly filled in after I suspected that it had all died off (specifically the Halophila). The turtle and manatee grasses have stubbornly (and admirably) held on as well. The Halophila has managed to sprout up in about 500 different spots with tiny, tiny leaves. However, the rhizomes are literally everywhere, as it had secretly been trailing beneath the substrate. I suspect the actual biomass of the grass beneath the sand is quite large, since it has already started compacting the substrate. Considering that this tank receives almost no care, it is doing extraordinarily well. Since my auto top off broke, I have rarely kept up with evaporation--salinity shifted rapidly and I had to unplug the sump completely on many occasions until I could get water made and/or order new filters for the RO unit. It also experienced a few prolonged power outages and related overflows while I was away on business.

My newest job that I started at the end of April really keeps me against the ropes. Between eating, sleeping, trying to stay halfway fit, and working, I barely have any time anymore. I have about 2.5 hours after work to complete as much as possible everyday (even on weekends, since I work those, too). Mornings are even more constrained, since the more sleep you get the better off you are--and sleep becomes increasingly important when you work 12+ hours every single day. I have about enough time to splash water in my tank, toss in food, feed my dog, myself, and then leave or go to bed. I'll take about 30 mins per day to surf around. I've lurked on AC quite a bit, but haven't really posted, as I had nothing to really contribute. I also lost some interest in forums in general for a while, since I was focusing 100% on my job. This evening was one of the rare ones that I had some spare time, so I'm glad I was able to post here. In any case, I'll keep things updated at least semi-regularly. Hopefully next time around I'll have pics and a more substantial update.

Thanks to anyone who has followed and/or stuck with this thread for bearing with me.

[greech]

Glad you found time to post. I'm about on the same schedule but thankfully not working weekends (yet anyway).

Glad you beat the dinos as well! Funny how tanks that get almost no attention seem to do so well :).

[leocom2000]

Just want to let you know I am reading your posts and am happy to see another one. I am too working some long and abnormal hours, but I am lucky to have some time to sleep in the morning. Hang in there and good luck with the tank.

[Amphiprion]

Update:

The tank is looking substantially better, especially after I added a new Tunze to the mix in addition to the MP40. The grass has really taken off and nuisance algae has finally backed off. Beyond that, the tank's worm factor is maxed out. I mean ridiculous amounts of worms of various, including some unique zebra striped ones that I haven't been able to narrow down. Looks like all that live sand came in handy. I should have some pics up by this weekend to document, though. In a nutshell, the shoalgrass has done very well and filled in while the oargrass dwindled. However, after the dinoflagellates disappeared, the oargrass exploded and has filled in pretty much every square inch of remaining space. It hasn't gotten dense yet, but I plan to prune it all back before that happens. I'm going to try to keep this stand of grasses as healthy as possible this time around.

[Amphiprion]

And the pics... Just took a couple, since the viewing angles are limited. For those wondering why I left the sides dirty, there's a reason for that http://www.mbrk.com/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif. I have hundreds of dorvilleid worms that munch on it and I rather like them, so I keep the sides algae-covered for their benefit... and I'm a bit lazy as well

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00026.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00027.jpg

Notice how the Halophila filled in incredibly fast. It went from almost nothing when I first restarted, then got choked out by the dinoflagellates. What you are seeing is roughly 2.5 months of sprouting only, which is incredible. This species' tendency toward ultra-fast vegetative growth is nothing short of astounding. The shoal grass has filled in quite well. It gradually dwindled like the rest and suddenly sent runners and shoots everywhere. There are about 30 individual shoots, ranging from about 1" to about 8". Last but not least, one of my favorites, the worm activity. I got a sandbed shot to show the amount of burrowing occurring in the bed. You can even see some of the dorvilleids nestled in their burrows next to grass roots. Very cool. There isn't a single square inch of sand that isn't packed with a worm of some sort, be it a cirratulid or run of the mill amphinomid. Exactly what I was going for!

[greech]

I am fairly clueless when it comes to seagrass but its good to see that you are having success. That first pic are sweet!

[Amphiprion]

I am fairly clueless when it comes to seagrass but its good to see that you are having success. That first pic are sweet!

There's not too terribly much to growing seagrasses (at least in my experience) and that's why I like them. All I do is feed and watch them grow, assuming dinoflagellates aren't trying to cover them. I think everybody should give seagrasses a shot, unless one just doesn't like them or the look they create. When I decide to set up a reef again, you can bet that I'll have an adjacent seagrass bed in the display.

[Amphiprion]

A mini-update and no pics at the moment:

I've had a lot more success as the tank aged and stabilized. The grasses have filled in almost too well and I've already started pulling large amounts of rhizomes from the substrate. I can tell when areas of substrate get too thick with them, because I start seeing less infauna in that area, plus the grasses start looking leggy. Fairly easy to spot once you know what you are looking for. It's a bit more extra work than I had intended, but it still is a far cry from what I would've been doing with a typical reef system. I think this is the only way you can sustainably keep these grasses growing at heavy rates--something FW planted folks are already quite familiar with and accustomed to. I guess with experience with corals (and zero experience with grasses before), I was initially a bit afraid of simply yanking the grasses out, worrying that they may not fill back in. Obviously now I know that such worries are [i]completely[/] unfounded, at least with one species. I'm not quite as aggressive about pruning the other species I have in there, though, since their growth and coverage is much less. Anyway, new pics to come soon. I'll likely have some up before X-mas.

[Cheech]

Always nice to look at this build. Different than what's usually seen on a marine build.

[Amphiprion]

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00035.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Amphiprion_photos/DSC00036.jpg


http://youtu.be/c51dNDItdZM

A few pics and a little video for those interested. It's been a while since I've updated, mostly because there is little to report on. The cyano had flared up pretty badly after disturbing the substrate to remove some rhizomes. What you see now is a significant improvement and it keeps thinning as time passes. It should be mostly, if not completely gone within a couple of weeks. The little Monti frag on the background is bleached, despite my efforts to prevent it--I guess the lighting it was in previously was just much, much lower by comparison. Hopefully it will do well, but I'll only know with time.

[greech]

Good to see the tank is doing well. The clowns sure look happy in the flow :)! Have you considered adding a small rock or two and maybe a nem in there? Tank may be a little small for a carpet but man that would fit in well with the grass.

[Amphiprion]

Good to see the tank is doing well. The clowns sure look happy in the flow :)! Have you considered adding a small rock or two and maybe a nem in there? Tank may be a little small for a carpet but man that would fit in well with the grass.

Thanks!

I have considered it, but there are several reasons why I haven't thus far. One is Aiptasia. It is much easier to eliminate them in the current circumstances. There aren't many, but they are defnitely there--maybe half a dozen at any given time that I can't necessarily see. A rock structure will be a magnet for them and it will make it very difficult to get rid of them. I was hoping that bleached little Montipora frag would eventually cover that PVC piece...

I had also considered an anemone, but none of the sand dwelling species do well because the seagrass rhizomes compact the sand, making it impossible for them to settle down or stay settled for terribly long. This was the original plan with a small Heteractis crispa, but I had to return it because of compaction. As for something like a BTA, I'm not sure how much it would appreciate the flow, as anything higher than grass-level will be subjected to intense water motion.

[greech]

Ya, probably too much flow for a BTA. Good to know on the compaction with grasses. Either way I really like the grass with the clowns.

Understood on the rock and the aptasia. Lord knows I do battle with them every weekend. If I didn't think I would blind myself, I would so get one of those lasers and go hunting :)!

[Amphiprion]

Ya, probably too much flow for a BTA. Good to know on the compaction with grasses. Either way I really like the grass with the clowns.

Understood on the rock and the aptasia. Lord knows I do battle with them every weekend. If I didn't think I would blind myself, I would so get one of those lasers and go hunting :)!
Lol, those lasers kinda freak me out. I could see my retina shriveling like that Aiptasia. I'd be too scared of messing up and hitting something in the tank that I like--being a clumsy fool doesn't help in my case. It's hard for me to do delicate work :)

[Cheech]

That's a great looking tank! Suck a natural look, and something we don't see every day..

Is that an MP10 you have in there?

[Amphiprion]

That's a great looking tank! Suck a natural look, and something we don't see every day..

Is that an MP10 you have in there?

Thanks--the natural look is really what I've been shooting for. Kinda part of my way of departing the ideal that TOTMs have set in relatively recent years. Nothing wrong with TOTM style systems, but they are more like collections rather than displays reflecting nature. To each his/her own, though.

That's actually an MP40 :D. Never been one to skimp on water motion, even on small systems. I've noticed that water flow is just as important on these types of systems--possibly more so, since the grasses dramatically reduce flow. It has been harder to provide adequate water motion on this tank than my reef-style systems as a result.

[Cheech]

Thanks--the natural look is really what I've been shooting for. Kinda part of my way of departing the ideal that TOTMs have set in relatively recent years. Nothing wrong with TOTM style systems, but they are more like collections rather than displays reflecting nature. To each his/her own, though.

That's actually an MP40 :D. Never been one to skimp on water motion, even on small systems. I've noticed that water flow is just as important on these types of systems--possibly more so, since the grasses dramatically reduce flow. It has been harder to provide adequate water motion on this tank than my reef-style systems as a result.

lol Wow! an MP40 and an additional powerhead in a 25g? I have 1 MP40 in my 90 and it seems sufficient.

hey, completely unrelated question: how often do you maintain your MP-40? I got mine in January and it already busted. Nothing major, but the screw holding the magnet to the propeller snapper. I ordered a maintenance kit which should be coming in in about a week. Needless to say, after spending over 500$ for a pump you'd think it wouldn't need any replacement pieces after a few months.

[Amphiprion]

lol Wow! an MP40 and an additional powerhead in a 25g? I have 1 MP40 in my 90 and it seems sufficient.

hey, completely unrelated question: how often do you maintain your MP-40? I got mine in January and it already busted. Nothing major, but the screw holding the magnet to the propeller snapper. I ordered a maintenance kit which should be coming in in about a week. Needless to say, after spending over 500$ for a pump you'd think it wouldn't need any replacement pieces after a few months.

It's a lot of flow for certain.

Though I'm afraid I may jinx myself, not often. I'd say every 3-4 months or less often. I do routinely clean the intake of debris, however. I also run mine near 100% speed, though not constantly and it's going close to two years. The only thing I've had to replace is the power cable, which is a cheap, easy fix (or completely free if you have spare PC power cables). So far so good. It may be worth noting that mine is an upgraded MP20, though.