Rams just won't breed

[jamesstill84]

I've had a pair of Long Finned German Blue Rams for a while now and they aren't producing for me. They are the only fish in a 20 gallon long. It is planted and has a couple of flat rocks for them to spawn on. The temp is 80F with PH 7.4. I've fed them blood worms, multiple types of flake food, snail jello, live shrimp, live mosquito larvae, live crayfish fry, etc. The female will get a red tummy and look like she's ready to burst, but nothing ever comes of it. They don't show any aggression towards each other.

Can anyone recommend something else? Should I try a new pair and ship these off to a new home?

[Piranha86]

I'm thinking the problem is the pH. Add some driftwood to the tank, it'll drop to a more ram-friendly pH of 5.5-6.5. 7.4 is awfully alkaline for rams. They can live happily from 6.8ish to 7.3ish, but they won't breed unless the water is a bit more acidic.

[arise1dwr]

I agree with Piranha86, Try lowering if not, buy a new pair but dont ship the other out as you may need them in case you run into the same problem you can mix and match the couples

[jamesstill84]

I've already got a piece of driftwood in the tank. What other way would you recommend to lower the PH?

[arise1dwr]

Get ph down, they sell it at most stores

[jamesstill84]

Is there another option available besides chemical additives? My experience has been that they are temporary fixes.

[arise1dwr]

Indian tree leaves, i used them for bettas and they work great just stain the water brown

[jamesstill84]

That sounds great. Is there a recommendation on how many leaves should be used for a 20 gallon long?

[Chrisinator]

Peat can lower the tank pH but I'm not sure by how much, but it definitely softens the water.

[jamesstill84]

I'll check for that as well. Thanks everyone for the assistance.

[Krilorn]

I have a pair of GBR in a 29 community tank with ph comming out of my tap at almost 8, not to mention gh/kh being fairly high. The tank is a little over a year old now and i have no issues with the breeding, in fact they are breeding like clockwork every 2-3 weeks. My female is always colored up with her pink belly, even in between their breeding time. The first few times they bred though they did eat the eats within a couple of hours of laying them, maybe yours are breeding and eating them before you notice the eggs.

[zzyzx85]

not to mention the eggs need soft water to firm up. otherwise, the eggs will be unviable and fungus, and the parents will eat them.

[ronw007]

I agree with the info "Krilorn" posted on the GBR's. Most of the info you will find on the internet regarding breeding GBR's, is they will only spawn in soft water and you need R/O water. In my personal experience, this is not true, I have been breeding GBR's for about 2 years now. My tank param's are 81/82 degree's, pH in the range of 7.5 to 8.0 and very hard water. I normally pull my egg clutch's and have no problem with them hatching in these water conditions. After a 50% water change, try feeding them frozen blood worms or if you have a realiable source for live black worms try this. If they don't spawn after this, then you might not have a compatible pair. If your pair tends to stay together and you are sure you have a male and female they should be able to spawn. I have found that rams are like angelfish, just because you put a male and female together, doesn't mean you will get a pair. They tend to pick their own mate's, so it is best to start out with a group of 6 to 8 and let them do the rest. Hope this helps, this is in no means set in stone, this is what has worked for me.

Ron

[jamesstill84]

I had this female with another young male when I first got them. They did lay eggs together once but he jumped out of the tank and died. I then had her with a larger male and he was too aggressive with her, so I switched him out with a younger male and she gets a red tummy, but no eggs.

[GEV83]

I say you find them a new home and start off with a new pair. If u want ill take in your pair lol

[jamesstill84]

Haha!

[GEV83]

Was worth a shot lol. I would try another pair. If they dont work you could mix and match the pairs.

[jamesstill84]

That's what I was thinking. I may get the almond leaves and lower the PH a little and if they don't breed, I'll look at getting some more.

[GEV83]

Thats a good idea. Hope it works with the Almond leaves.

[jpappy789]

Water chemistry is probably not the issue...as stated there are quite a few people breeding blue rams in hard water.

So how long have these two been together?

Not every couple becomes a compatible breeding pair. Your best bet would be to get 6 or so juvies and let them pair up on there own.

[jamesstill84]

This couple have been together for about 5 months.

[ctbestfisherman]

Mine golden rams just breed today :) I picked up 5 back in march and had them in a 20 long. Pretty much left them there without any water changes just filled it up when it was low. Please don't yell at me, I have been very busy and I cleaned all my tanks 3 days ago and did multiple water changes and moved them to a 30 gallon. It took 3 and 1/2 hours. Now they are more active and one pair layed eggs. I know I have another pair and a lone male also. I'm not expecting the eggs to hatch since its there first spawn and I have the pair with 3 other rams, 2 plecos, and some tetras. But now I know of the pair I hope to concentrate on breeding them and keep up on my water changes. Just a few days after a water change and they breed the other pair looks as if they might breed also. So I reccomend water changes.

[jamesstill84]

Thanks. :)

[Piranha86]

Some rams will breed in hard water, but it is the norm for them to breed in soft water.

[Chrisinator]

Have they been showing any signs of breeding yet?

[Scuppers]

Peat can lower the tank pH but I'm not sure by how much, but it definitely softens the water.

Sounds like I had the identical problem that jamesstill84 has...I mean completely identical.

So I used a sock full of peat to lower the Ph worked just fine...you need about 1/2 a softball sized lump in a new ladies nylon short sock thingy do. I tied mine under the filter outlet.

However there are other things you can also do to encourage breeding:

Lower the water level to about four inches and leave it there for three days. Then disconnect your heater. Then re-fill using conditioned (softened as well) water at about 70f in a way that emulates rainfall. Leave the heater off for a couple of days. That should do it.

Keep us all posted.

[dixienut]

also heard that alder cones lower Ph,.. o bough some but just for medicinal purposes , never checked if it lowered it or not,..lol

[ctbestfisherman]

My other pair of golden rams just spawned today :) The other pair's eggs lasted for 2 days then "disintegrated." I say disintegrated because that looks like what happened (anyone else experience this?) I am actually surprised they were not eaten. Anyways these eggs appear white "not fertile" but I will wait a few days and see what happens. I might just remove the leaf they are on and put them in a small container with an airstone. I now am sure I have two pairs :) and a lone male.

[jamesstill84]

The female is showing a red tummy again, but still no eggs. I haven't altered the water yet though.