Lighting Help

[cjtabares]

I think I am going to be setting up a new tank 36"x36"x24" and did not know what type of lighting to use. The tank is going to be mostly lps with some zoas. I was thinking of going with a 250 watt radium w/ a good reflector(reflector and ballast suggestions would be great) or a 6x39 watt ATI Powermodule. So what light would you go with? And Why?

Thanks for any help
Christopher

[Amphiprion]

Both would be great additions, but the Powermodule will definitely be brighter in this case with your bulb selection. However, the halide setup with something like Lumenarc or Lumenbright reflectors would be cheaper in the long run just due to bulb replacement costs and the cost of individual T5 lamps. Energy consumption, for all intents and purposes, will be equal. I'm cheap, so I'd lean in that direction, albeit with a brighter lamp. As far as halide bulb/ballast combinations, have you looked at any of Sanjay Joshi's lighting data yet (http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/select2lamp.php) ? That will give you an idea of bulb/ballast PAR levels.

[cjtabares]

Yes I have looked over those before quickly guess I should take a more indepth look at it now. Yeah I was leaning to the MH because of the up front cost and bulb replacment. I like blue so I was thinking maybe a 20k, but I want to see if I can find someone in my club who has one to check it out. Do you think I could get good par to grow LPS with a 20k? I love my T5s but with this tank they don't seem to be cost effective.

Thanks for the help

[Amphiprion]

That's the same reason I went with halides on my new setup--well, that and space constraints.

As for color temperature, most of the 20K lamps I saw had terrible performance when it comes to PAR (Radiums were the best I saw and even that wasn't great). IF you still want blue, try looking at some 14K lamps. Phoenix 14K have good PAR and are still quite blue, IMHO. Then again, I suppose it depends on how much blue you perceive. My eyes are pretty sensitive to it, so I pick up on tiny amounts of it--so my "blue" may not be yours.

[fsn77]

I can't believe I'm saying this, as I've been a fan of T5s and have more experiences with them, but I'd go with the MH in this situation (I'm a recent convert... jumped on that wagon about a year ago). If you buy one of the pendants / reflectors designed to have a wider spread, like a Lumen Bright Large, a single one (like I think you're suggesting) would give good coverage for the vast majority of the tank and not spill a bunch of light out onto the floor.

I can't really recommend a particular ballast over another, as I've only used IceCap and PFO MH ballasts (about to give Vertex a try). The Radium bulbs, from what I've seen online, seem to have very noticeable differences in appearance depending on the ballast they are run on. You may want to check into that more if you're pretty set on using those bulbs.

[cjtabares]

I am not set on those bulbs, just what I was suggested by a fee guys from my local club. I have never used MH so I don't know much about them.

[Conski]

Just set my ATI up.... get one ;) ive had MH for a year and like the t5 much better

[Amphiprion]

Just set my ATI up.... get one ;) ive had MH for a year and like the t5 much better

Tease. You know the drill :D.

[Conski]

sadly man all the sps in my tank has been moved for saftey pourposes. ALSO i dropped my brand new Evo phone into the toilet so i have no camera for 3 to 5 buissness day... it has an 8megapixel camera too :( ill post pics of my empty tank soon! really though man ATI's are amazing!

[cjtabares]

Ok someone suggested I go with this ballast http://www.marinedepot.com/Lumatek_400W_120_240V_Dimmable_Multi_Wattage_(250W _400W)_Ballast_400_Watt_Metal_Halide_Ballasts-Lumatek-LK1235-FILTACBAMHFH-vi.html

I think this might be the best idea because I am pretty sure I will want to get back into SPS. So when it is LPS I will use a 250 watt and if/when I get back into SPS I will use a 400 watt. How does that sound?

[Jstdv8]

I have the T-5's and am happy with them, but i envy the shimmer of the halide. so if heat wasnt a factor and everything else was equal i'd go halide

[Conski]

i think just a 250watt would be fine for both lps and sps. ive had 150watt mh, 250watt mh and t5 all over the same tank and so far im liking the ATIS the most.

I have a 250watt MH sunpod i would definitely sell you for 200 shipped if you want to think about that bulbs barely even used.

[cjtabares]

ok well considerng cost and output I really think the MH might be a better choice for me on this tank. U think I am going to go with this setup:

Lumatek 400 watt multi-wattage: http://www.marinedepot.com/Lumatek_4...BAMHFH-vi.html (http://www.marinedepot.com/Lumatek_400W_120_240V_Dimmable_Multi_Wattage_%2825 0W_400W%29_Ballast_400_Watt_Metal_Halide_Ballasts-Lumatek-LK1235-FILTACBAMHFH-vi.html)

Lumenmax elite

and maybe

Radium 20k
Phoenix 14K
Or
Ushio 14k

[Amphiprion]

ok well considerng cost and output I really think the MH might be a better choice for me on this tank. U think I am going to go with this setup:

Lumatek 400 watt multi-wattage: http://www.marinedepot.com/Lumatek_4...BAMHFH-vi.html (http://www.marinedepot.com/Lumatek_400W_120_240V_Dimmable_Multi_Wattage_%2825 0W_400W%29_Ballast_400_Watt_Metal_Halide_Ballasts-Lumatek-LK1235-FILTACBAMHFH-vi.html)

Lumenmax elite

and maybe

Radium 20k
Phoenix 14K
Or
Ushio 14k

Very good choices. If you still want to go with the Radium, this is just about the only instance I'd recommend it in for your tank depth. Heck, my 250w XM 10000K is brighter than a 400w Radium in most cases and it's on a 25g. I just about takes a 400w lamp to get the most out of it. The others will be plenty bright for what you want. That reflector is also top notch, being among the most intense reflectors available today, but the spread may be lower than what you want--unless you plan on zoning the lighting levels in the tank, which is also appropriate. I've also heard great things about the lumatek ballasts.

[Ace25]

As for color temperature, most of the 20K lamps I saw had terrible performance when it comes to PAR (Radiums were the best I saw and even that wasn't great). IF you still want blue, try looking at some 14K lamps. Phoenix 14K have good PAR and are still quite blue, IMHO. Then again, I suppose it depends on how much blue you perceive. My eyes are pretty sensitive to it, so I pick up on tiny amounts of it--so my "blue" may not be yours.

My testing showed the Radium 20k had a lot more PAR than the Phoenix 14k. But your right, when compared to something like a XM 10k, even the Radium is only 1/2 the PAR. My perception was the Phoenix looked the most blue out of the bulbs I have tried.. I think those 2 bulbs are mislabled when comparing to all other bulbs I have seen. Radium should be 14k and Phoenix should be 20k.

But to the OP, ya, that ballast/reflector combo sounds perfect. I would pick the Radium 20k as my bulb choice on that setup.

[Amphiprion]

My testing showed the Radium 20k had a lot more PAR than the Phoenix 14k. But your right, when compared to something like a XM 10k, even the Radium is only 1/2 the PAR. My perception was the Phoenix looked the most blue out of the bulbs I have tried.. I think those 2 bulbs are mislabled when comparing to all other bulbs I have seen. Radium should be 14k and Phoenix should be 20k.

But to the OP, ya, that ballast/reflector combo sounds perfect. I would pick the Radium 20k as my bulb choice on that setup.

Sure. There are instances where it may be brighter, as each bulb has better ballast matches in terms of intensity. My fixture was sent with a 250w Radium and there was no way it'd work with the seagrasses I want.

Edit: Good to see you posting again, btw.

[cjtabares]

I really don't know much about MH, this will be my first time using them. I was going with that reflector because of what I read in this article http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/review/view?searchterm=reflectors

It seems to say that the lumenbright and the lumenmax elite would be best for a tank 36" or bigger. And lumenarcs and lumenmax are best for tanks <36". Idk I would like full coverage what would u suggest?

[Ace25]

Oops, let me just post my pictures. I just went back and I had the AquaMaxx 14k and the Phoenix 14k confused in my head on PAR readings. The AquaMaxx bulb is very low on PAR compared to all the others I have tried. The Phoenix wasn't much lower than the Radium.

250w M80 ballast with Lumen Bright reflector. FWIW I believe the Radium + M80 ballast is the ideal combo for that bulb. I have never tested an "E-Ballast" before but I am very interested in trying them sometime in the near future. Also, that reflector your getting.. I WANT! That reflector is the best out there IMO. :)

In the pictures below you can see how the Phoenix seems to be more blue than the Radium. These pictures were all taken after the bulbs had 3 weeks of "burn in" done. Every setup is different, ballast, reflectors, height above tank will all make a difference in PAR readings. I just tried to make sure everything was the same in all my tests so I could just compare bulbs.

Phoenix 14k
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2552/3673234401_eaa2d370f4.jpg

Radium 20k
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2476/3672989177_1897bdf099.jpg

XM 10k
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2473/3673337517_de8a27cb28.jpg

[cjtabares]

Thanks. I do like blue, I really think it makes the color of my LPSs shine. But idk how much blue. Maybe I will try both the Phoenix 14k and the Radium 20k. I do want to check them out at a few reefers from my club but how much diffrent can a bulb be from ballast to ballast?

[Amphiprion]

I really don't know much about MH, this will be my first time using them. I was going with that reflector because of what I read in this article http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/review/view?searchterm=reflectors

It seems to say that the lumenbright and the lumenmax elite would be best for a tank 36" or bigger. And lumenarcs and lumenmax are best for tanks <36". Idk I would like full coverage what would u suggest?

Never mind. I just realized that I was thinking of another reflector. The Lumenmax Elite will be fine for that tank and work very well.

[Ace25]

... how much diffrent can a bulb be from ballast to ballast?
You will be suprised when you see it in person. Ballast can make a HUGE difference in both appearance and output. As an example, the XM 10k on an Icecap Electronic ballast has a blue tint to the bulb, but on a M80 ballast there is no hint of blue, just extremely crisp white light.

If you told someone to walk in the room, look at the tank on one ballast, then have them leave, switch ballast and come back in and ask them what is different I can almost guarantee they will say you changed the bulb.

Here is my example, when I first setup my 75G.

XM 10k on Icecap Ballast
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3109/2581646895_6f6eb4663f.jpg

XM 10K on PFO M80 Ballast
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/2588924388_6be418bee4.jpg

[BoJangles]

I have a pheonix 14k on a PFO magnetic ballast and a Coralife HQI( am unsure if its magnetic or not) and they are not terribly blue,(the PFO is a 250w and the HQI is 150w) how ever the 250w is more blue than the 150w

[cjtabares]

I think I will start with the Radium 20k and if it is not blue enough I will try some other bulbs.

[Jstdv8]

wow, over 800 with the 10k thats sick!
Are those par meters expensive? I'd love to know what my T-5's are puting out in my tank.

[Ace25]

Are those par meters expensive? I'd love to know what my T-5's are puting out in my tank.
Unfortunately, yes, they are quite expensive. I think I paid around $500 for my meter with their "special" USB cable they sell so I can do logging with it and record the results on my computer.

[Amphiprion]

He's using one of the M80 HQI ballasts, which effectively overdrive the lamps. The overdriven XM 10Ks are an extremely intense lamp. The only one that can be brighter is the Iwasaki 6500K.

[Conski]

nvm haha edited

[Ace25]

Just wanted to mention something real quick to curb a myth I see going around the net a lot, which is Phoenix bulbs last a lot longer than Radium bulbs. I just ran some PAR tests.

Phoenix PAR readings
440 new - 360 @ 6 months = 80 PAR lost

Radium PAR readings
475 new - 425 @ 6 months = 50 PAR lost

So from my testing it appears that Radiums last longer than Phoenix, at least in terms of PAR output/decline with age. This blows the myth out of the water. I always hear Radiums only last 4-6 months tops where as Phoenix last 12-18 months.. well, that doesn't appear to be the case in my circumstance (which I know, M80 ballast is a big variable).

Just throwing that information out there because I do think it is good valuable info.

[cjtabares]

Thanks Ace. That's verry useful info.

[Amphiprion]

My fixture actually came with a 250w Radium. I fired it up once to see how it would look in this setup, as well as to check and see if it worked and I hated it, lol. It was noticeably dimmer and still too blue for my tastes. It wasn't the Windex-blue that, say, XM 20Ks emit, but still too blue for what I like. Needless to say, I immediately relocated it back to the sleeve it came in. I'll stick to my XM 10K :D.

[Ace25]

Well.. you didn't even give it a chance Amphiprion. ;) You know the bulb takes about 100 hours of burn in to get it's "true" color. I admit, I hated the radium color when it was new, but as it burned in the color got to be a nice color to me. Looked exactly like the AquaMax 14k bulb, spectral charts even show they have the same spectral output, except the radium has about 150 more PAR output.

But I know your taste in lighting and I don't see anything higher than a 10k bulb pleasing you. :D

[Amphiprion]

But I know your taste in lighting and I don't see anything higher than a 10k bulb pleasing you. :D

You know me well :D.

[cjtabares]

Yeah I need my blue, I am running 8 ATI blue + and 4 Fiji purples. The bulb combo in my signiture was not blue enough for me :D