White clouds are all dropping dead with no symptoms!

[angyles]

okay so just as the title says...something's seriously wrong.

29G tank that's had 12 white clouds, 1 sparkling gourami, 1 betta, snails, 2 ADFs, and 2 bamboo shrimp for about 1.5 years now. Very healthy and happy.

2 weeks ago, I added 12 baby white clouds. I should have QTd. Obviously. I got lazy and haven't had a catastrophy in a while so now I'm paying for it I guess but I can't go back and change it now.

So last week, 1 of my mature white clouds died. Then one of my bamboo shrimp died suddenly. Very strange but maybe old age?

Now each day over the the last 5 days, 1 of my mature white clouds have suddenly died, with absolutely no visible or behavioral symptoms. Also, I'm down to 7 of the 12 babies but never find their bodies. The betta and sparkling gourami seem fine though.

Does this sound like maybe an internal parasite? I have no idea what to do with the tank at this point. The shrimp loss seems odd and like coincidence to me. I don't want to hurt my frogs, shrimp or assassin snails so I'm not sure what steps to take in identifying and treating WHATEVER this is!

Any ideas?

Also, I have some PolyGaurd that I'm thinking might be good to use, but I don't know if it's safe with inverts. Isn't malachite green bad for them?

[BioHazard]

How small are the babies? If you are not finding bodies, perhaps the betta is eating them?

[angyles]

I really don't think he's eating them. He's a very passive betta and they're not TINY tiny. Just young. But it's the adult ones that I'm really worried about anyway.

[KarlTh]

Nitrate? I wouldn't use a heavy metal compound like malachite green with any inverts around.

[angyles]

no there's no nitrates. heavily planted tank.

I decided to scoop out all the white clouds and put them in a 10G and medicate them with the polygaurd. Lost 2 more last night. I did do a VERY mild dose (1/4) of the polygaurd in the 29 to to and take care of any bits of whatever it is before it gets my betta and gourami. The amount of malachite green is so low, the scientists at seachem said it should be fine with inverts and plants it you use 1/3-1/2 dose so I went with 1/4. What'll be will be I guess. Still no clue what's happening though.

[excuzzzeme]

You might want to talk with Inka4040 on this problem as he has them as well and has run into problems. He may have some insight for you.

[angyles]

yeah I'm noticing a trend with white clouds. When I first started getting them, I went through 2 batches that did this same thing. Then I got a good batch that's lasted a veyr long time. Now this new batch has killed those older healthy ones off, as well as themselves.

When I look at other threads regarding white clouds, many people seem to describe the same thing; "they're fine and then suddenly they're dead." In every thread though, no one ever seems to come up with a solution. guesses about heat, ph, etc, but ultimately nothing I would consider probable given the sircumstances.

I'm begining to think there's something that white clouds are prone to that is contradictory to their 'hearty' reputation. Internal parasite maybe? Infection? I don't know. But the betta, gourami and frogs all seem fine so...

I'm about to give up on them and go in a different direction I think. We'll see what happens in the hospital tank, but I'm not holding my breath and I'm tired of dealing with such sickly fish.

[DansFish]

Did you experience hot weather at about the same time your white clouds started to die? White clouds can live in warm water, but they prefer a high oxygen contend and do best in cooler temps. Mine get their most vivid colors in the mid 60's.
Dan