View Full Version : do Oscar have to dig to be happy
daveedka
01-31-2004, 4:36 PM
One more question for the Oscar experts, I typically have used large gravel to discourage digging in my oscar tanks, Should I puposefully use a substrate that they can dig to improve their quality of life or can they be happy fish without looting the tank regularly. I will use quite a few large rocks and caves in my set-up
Oscar_Mania
01-31-2004, 7:23 PM
I have sand as my substrate and my Oscar occasionally will dig in it. He's not big on digging like my JD is. However other Oscars might be different. My Oscar seems to be happy enough just swimming around and playing with his frog ornaments.
daveedka
01-31-2004, 7:40 PM
This has been my general observation in the past (Oscars don't dig much) , but I always used fairly large gravel. Everyone I talk to seems to mention that Oscars are diggers so I thought maybe I should do things differently in the future. By the way do your Oscars and your JD live in the same tank? and do they get along?
My gravel is a bit smaller than pea-sized, and my Oscar rarely digs.
NatakuTseng
02-01-2004, 2:46 PM
Some do and some don't. Doesn't mean they are happy or aren't. Puma and I had oscars a while back, and they never disturbed the substrate at all.
My oscars only dig when they are mad. :mad: :) It's so funny when they attack the driftwood, too.
lion lover
01-24-2005, 3:31 PM
Hi i have a 5 inch tiger oscar and he loves to dig usually down 3 inches then i fill it and he digs it again dont know what hes doing it for but it seems to keep him happy :rolleyes:
Seattle206
01-24-2005, 4:31 PM
mines dont dig. There is no gravel.
Haggisman
01-24-2005, 4:50 PM
mines dont dig. There is no gravel.
Makes sense, although this would be a better sentence..
My oscars dont dig because there is no gravel.
my oscars don't dig much, usually only if i haven't fed them in a day or so. they are very odd.
Seattle206
01-25-2005, 1:16 AM
Makes sense, although this would be a better sentence..
My oscars dont dig because there is no gravel.
okk...
montanaxvi
01-25-2005, 6:40 PM
no digging here in the short time I have had mine, he did decide one day to start taking the small plastic plants in the tank and race around the tank dropping them in new spots one by one until he was happy with the way the furniture looked. Took the plants out he is still fine no digging yet.
Sometimes they dig, sometimes they don't. Hard to tell why. I suspect that some of the time it's a spawning or pre-spawining behavior. Could be boredom. They get interested in different things. For awhile it's digging, then maybe playing in the bubbles, watching TV, checking out the people in the room, terrorizing their tankmates, rearranging the plants (maybe secretly studying Feng Shui -- sometimes their choices are better than mine). Mine don't really hide in the caves, though they will check them out thouroughly -- even if they're too low for them they'll turn on their side so they can get in and inspect. Be careful how you build them -- they're swimming bulldozers. Any time I re-arrange or add anything all the cichlids (2 O's, 2 Severums, and a Juripari) have to come check it out from every possible angle.
gsk177
01-25-2005, 10:39 PM
Ive had several Oscars and have never noticed that they have a tendancy to dig.
Based on the responses thusfar, I would have to conclude that some Oscars dig and some don't. If yours is digging, I wouldn't freak out. If its not, again I wouldnt freak out.
In my experience Oscars are like puppies.....each is unique in its behavior.
If it acts happy and acts happy...Id say it is happy.
devz11
01-29-2005, 7:41 AM
I myself have two oscars neither of which dig. They are just not interested so far. my friend who also has a larger oscar to which has not dug on a regular basis. but she took away his gravel in a new tank and he was fascinated for two days with his own reflection. He is also living in a tank with 3 red top zebras all to which could easily fit in his mouth but he never eats them. Even when they swim past his face
adamdwalker
01-30-2005, 4:32 AM
my oscars boring! (hes about 8-10")
What size tank is he in? Does he have any tankmates? Do you interact with him much? Most of us are not as playful as we mature, but hopefully we become interesting in other ways. I've found the same to be true with fish.
adamdwalker
01-30-2005, 4:43 PM
60gal tank, yes i use to interact with him until he started ra\mming the glass every time i went near the tank, yes he has 3 parrots as tank mates a perruno and a pleco
You may be pushing the envelope a bit on the tank size. At 8-10" he may be feeling confined in that space with those other fish. Plus, you must be having loads of fun keeping the water in good shape. When I moved mine out of the 55 at about 8" he really relaxed a lot, and some aggression issues toward his former buddies eased off markedly. Ramming the glass as you approach? Hmmm. Usually for an O to get that excited it tends to be about food. Is he getting enough?
Paccula
01-30-2005, 5:46 PM
I know I don't have Oscars, but..
My tetras sometimes crowd against the glass near me when I sit near the tank. doesn't matter if its feeding time or not (they are always hungry and try to convince me they are starving even after they've just eaten.) they arn't much fun to watch then because they arn't swimming around all nice, just bumping their noses against the glass. I think some fish just know that someone's there and want to get closer. I've taken to sitting further away and then they don't notice that I'm there as much and continue swimming normaly.
adamdwalker
01-31-2005, 11:42 AM
yes hes getting enough and you cant say the tank is not big enough since they say anythin over 3foot tank
daveedka
01-31-2005, 12:04 PM
yes hes getting enough and you cant say the tank is not big enough since they say anythin over 3foot tank
IME and IMO The tank isn't big enough
A 12-14 inch fish in a 12 inch tank doesn't fit comfortably. I'm not sure who "they" are but they are wrong, anything over a 3 foot tank leaves way too much out of the equation. unless the tank is 18" deep and 3 foot long then maybe one Oscar with excellent maintenance, but no room for tank mates at all. a 55 may have enough volume for one Oscar, but the dimensions of the tank don't fit the fish, These guys need to be able to turn around ans swim a bit, or their personalities suffer greatly.
Dave
Daveedka is correct. The tank could be 6 feet long but if its only 12" wide its to small to turn around in. Imagine being in a hall thats the same width as you are. You might be able to walk back and forth but you'd still feel crowded. I've never heard anyone with knowledge suggest a tank smaller than 75 gallon for one Oscar. Most people agree 90 is much better though.
gsk177
01-31-2005, 2:33 PM
Why bother???? He has it in his mind that all is well and there is nothing we can say to change his.
I made a post about this very topic in the freshwater newbie section, but I'm gonna believe it will fall on deaf ears.
He's got a 3 foot tank and a 10 inch fish in it. At 3 feet long I cant imagine it being more than 18 inches wide. That means his fish can swim a WHOPPING 3 body lengths before it has to turn around. What a pleasure this must be.
You can apply this same method of thinking to a dog. Do you buy a 1/2 grown puppy at 2 feet long and stick in a 6 foot square cage and NEVER EVER EVER EVER FOR ANY FRIGGIN REASON let it out?????????????
This is the same mentality. Your fish can NEVER be let out to exercise or swim freely...........god...I give up on these people..............Im about to get indignant.
adamdwalker
02-02-2005, 2:19 PM
IME and IMO The tank isn't big enough
A 12-14 inch fish in a 12 inch tank doesn't fit comfortably. I'm not sure who "they" are but they are wrong, anything over a 3 foot tank leaves way too much out of the equation. unless the tank is 18" deep and 3 foot long then maybe one Oscar with excellent maintenance, but no room for tank mates at all. a 55 may have enough volume for one Oscar, but the dimensions of the tank don't fit the fish, These guys need to be able to turn around ans swim a bit, or their personalities suffer greatly.
Dave
my tanks 48" x 15" x 24" at max points and 48" x18" x 24" at min (bowed you c)
Seattle206
02-02-2005, 11:50 PM
Who cares its just a fish. You can keep it in a 12 gallon if you want.
~*LuvMyKribs*~
02-02-2005, 11:59 PM
I dont really understand your measurements there adamdwalker
48" x 15" x 24" that measurement you gave states the tank will be 74 gallons.
48" x18" x 24" and that, very different, measurement you gave states the tank will be 89.640 gallons, or almost a 90 gallon tank.
So, you say its 60 gallons, but your measurement do not.
daveedka
02-03-2005, 7:05 AM
It's a bow front tank, next to impossible to know how big it really is unless you have the exact arc radius of the front glass. But definately bigger than a 60g if those measurements are accurate. Either way anything more than one Oscar is too much for 60g tank even if it has room to turn around.
Dave
adamdwalker
02-03-2005, 11:51 AM
pppppppppphhhhhhhhhh i at the moment my oscar doesnt deserve to be in a tank hes evil,
~*LuvMyKribs*~
02-03-2005, 12:01 PM
whatever :rolleyes: we tried
gsk177
02-03-2005, 9:15 PM
We (ME) give up.
Marc999
02-03-2005, 9:50 PM
So, an oscar would feel like an abused turd in 10 gallon tank, an unappreciated nerd in a 55 gallon tank, be happy as a clam in a 90 gallon tank, feel like a frickin' king/queen in 180 gallon tank and think they died and went to heaven in a 300 gallon tank? If you think that is a run-on sentence (ros for you acronym loving people), you're right, you win a prize!
Wouldn't he/she be much happier in it's natural environment? Let's draw the line somewhere in the sand folks! Be careful about downplaying someones 55 gallon tank in comparison to your own 90 gallon, when that 90g. lacks the measurement superiority of the 180g...lol
Be nice, leave the oscars alone and support the Guppy! Unless we leave our houses and convert it into an aquarium, mr/mrs. oscar may not be ultimately thrilled ;)
cheers,
Marc
gsk177
02-03-2005, 10:10 PM
If you use that mindset then anyone keeping any sort of animal is doing a disservice to that animal as all animals orginate from the wild.
There is a fine line that exists between housing an animal properly and just housing an animal for the sake of housing an animal.
While it may be true that some fish would be "happier" in a real environment in its natural habitat, the other side of token is perhaps in a home aquarium this animal has a MUCH MUCH MUCH greater chance at survival. Try telling the baby Convicts of the world that they would be "happier" living in the wild and having to fend for themselves....having to find their own food...having to steer clear of predators.
I can assure you, the Convict fry I keep have a near 100% survival rate, as do 99.99% of any other fish I keep. Compare these stats to the "wild" and I think MY fish would rather live with ME than somewhere else.
Keeping an Oscar in a 20g tank can be compared to throwing a white Christian male in an Army uniform into the desert of Iraq. Sure he's alive, but for how long, and how happy is he?
Marc999
02-03-2005, 10:32 PM
An interesting argument, backed by personal statistics, very impressive. Your argument stipulates survival rates exceeding comparable species in the wild, while you appropriately acknoweldge that they may not be 100% content due to their slightly less than ideal surroundings. Albeit, this is the nature of a hobby involving confined living quarters of our fishy friends.
Since we're all here to appreciate the fish keeping hobby, or frogs for that matter, then perhaps purchasing the largest tank that we can afford is the wisest decision producing the greatest enjoyment for ourselves and our fortunate aquatic friends ;) I feel horrible now for the 3 oscars I have crammed into my 10 gallon tank...kidding.
gsk177
02-03-2005, 10:57 PM
"you appropriately acknoweldge that they may not be 100% content due to their slightly less than ideal surroundings. Albeit, this is the nature of a hobby involving confined living quarters of our fishy friends. "
I would agree with you here, but with the understanding that the fishy friend we CHOOSE to keep should be one that we are PROPERLY able to house.
The fish keeping hobby is not LEGALLY regulated to such degrees as are more common animals like dogs, cats, and horses. Try keeping 10 puppies in a 1 bedroom apt and see how long your butt stays out of legal trouble. Try keeping a Clydesdale foal in a 6 foot dog kennel in your backyard and see how long it is before animal control is SEIZING your animal and CITING you to a court hearing.
Yet the same thing happens daily to fish. People buy fish with no regaurds to their proper keeping.
Most animals have laws and regulations regaurding their keeping while fish and most aquatic life do not. Whens the last time you heard of FISH control coming and citing someone for keeping too many guppies in a 5g tank.
What I am saying is fish owner and hobbyist should care for their animals as if they WERE regulated by some sort of FISH POLICE.
"Since we're all here to appreciate the fish keeping hobby, or frogs for that matter, then perhaps purchasing the largest tank that we can afford is the wisest decision producing the greatest enjoyment for ourselves and our fortunate aquatic friends"
I agree. Keeping the LARGEST tank that we can afford AND housing the proper fish we can afford to PROPERLY house and keep IS a wise decision. It is NOT a wise decision to house fish we are not adequately prepared to keep. It is unresponsible for you or I to keep an Oscar, a Jack Dempsy or a Pacu in a 10g, 20g, or even a 55g tank. While these tanks may be well suited for temporary JUVENILE size fish, these tanks are NOT suited for long term housing of certain fish. Anyone who houses ANY type of fish or ANY type of animal has a moral and ethical obligation to provide them with a PROPER and SUITABLE long term home. If you don't, you have no right to make these purchases.
Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Would you agree with the man who purchases a 9 week old Great Dane Puppy (and plans to keep this puppy until it dies) (and has no immediate plans to move to larger quarters) when this guy lives in an apartment and whose plan is to keep this puppy indoors at ALL times (he never lets the puppy out)? WOuld you think this was a wise decision? Would you think this housing araingment would best suit this animal?
Marc999
02-03-2005, 11:11 PM
The obvious answer to that hypothetical question is no. I assume that question wasn't rhetorical? The same applies to fish of course. Try finding a hobby though with more complexities than aquarium fish keeping. As simple or complex as one might desire, yet for many the simple becomes overly complex as the water chemistry, confined space bear too much of a burden on our specimen.
I agree, the hobby should be policed, extreme and highly unlikely, nevertheless not a bad idea ;) On that note, time for bed...I enjoyed our conversation...6 hrs left, must sleep.
Marc
gsk177
02-03-2005, 11:26 PM
The reason our hobby is so complex is due largely in part to education. The general public has little knowledge of proper fishkeeping when compared to the proper keeping of dogs and cats. And 99% of the general population that has no clue on the proper keeping of horses and cows has enough common sense to know whether or not they have adequate means to house either of such animal. (It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know whether or not you have proper space for a horse or cow.)
Having said that though, it does not excuse nor condone attitudes such as yours that say just because we can only afford a 20g tank that should excuse us if we choose to house inappropriate fish.
I say BS!! The goal of websites like Aquaria Central is to provide fishkeepers with knowledge and advice with regaurds to the fishkeeping hobby. Unfortunately most housing questions with regaurds to "what fish can I keep" come too late. Meaning, they come AFTER the purchase has been made. Most of us here can excuse someone for making a poor fish selection but the VAST majority of here CANNOT excuse someone who makes a poor fish selection and yet ignores the warnings being given and he who fails to remedy the situation.
Just because the guy buys a great dane puppy and realizes he made a bad decision doesn't automatically exclude him from liability. What he does to remedy the situation solidifies his place in whether or not he is a responsible petowner.
I see what you are saying though. In which tank would a single lone guppy more happy? A 10g or 200g? Obviously the 200g would provide the guppy a more "natural" environment with respects to free space to move around and inhibit its natural characteristics. And I agree with you that not everyone can provide their fish with an idealistic dream situation. Nonetheless, there is a fine line between providing a fish with an idealistic habitat and providing your fish with meer living quarters. If all you plan to do is house your fish with bare minimums and do not take into account any regaurd to well being, then most any tank will do for most any fish. However, it is my goal, and the goal of most serious hobbyists, to provide my fish with the most suitable long term living conditions I can provide.
No matter which way you cut it though, there are certain fish that 90% of aquarium owners are simply not able to house....and shouldn't.
Marc999
02-05-2005, 11:42 AM
"Having said that though, it does not excuse nor condone attitudes such as yours that say just because we can only afford a 20g tank that should excuse us if we choose to house inappropriate fish."
Attitudes such as mine? If you're implying I'm advocating keeping unsuitable specimens in a small tank, I am not. Obviously the implied sarcasm and in some cases outright obvious sarcasm was overlooked by people such as youself. Read carefully, before taking siege on someone's statements.
gsk177
02-05-2005, 12:38 PM
"So, an oscar would feel like an abused turd in 10 gallon tank, an unappreciated nerd in a 55 gallon tank, be happy as a clam in a 90 gallon tank, feel like a frickin' king/queen in 180 gallon tank and think they died and went to heaven in a 300 gallon tank? If you think that is a run-on sentence (ros for you acronym loving people), you're right, you win a prize!
Wouldn't he/she be much happier in it's natural environment? Let's draw the line somewhere in the sand folks! Be careful about downplaying someones 55 gallon tank in comparison to your own 90 gallon, when that 90g. lacks the measurement superiority of the 180g...lol"
Perhaps i misunderstood this earlier post, but it is this post that I am going by.
I got the impression that you were of the mindset of "Well, 55g is all I can afford or have the space to keep so thats the best I can do for my Oscars and other larger fish."
To me, and others on here, this is simply not a responsible attitude.