Discus care, really so needy?

[Lillyan]

So, I was at a not-so-local fish store today, 2.5hrs drive and I saw some Discus there and the largest Angelfish ever. They had 2 Angels, bodies 4in diameter, it was amazing!

But what I want to know is, do Discus really need the crazy care I've read about? All that constant water changing, etc??

This store had, oh, 20 of them, all 3-4in. Very lovely colors, good fins. But this store is known for their dreadful infestation of BBA. They don't always have healthy fish, usually the Goldfish and Koi are on their last fins. They had another small group of some kind of Cichlids that were horribly infested with Ich, but what can you do?

My boyfriend bought a wonderful Red sword for $12, one of only a few plants not sold out or not covered in an inch of BBA. Actually, the Sword was floating at the top, prolly why no one dared snatch it up in fear it was damaged. They had other huge plants, but they were stiff and leaves out of the water, I live too far to risk taking one home.

Back to the fish, can't they be cared for like other fish? No way this store cared obsessively over them, the tanks they were in were covered in BBA and other issues. Basic needs met, no more, I'm sure. But they looked amazing....

So what's the catch/trick to keeping them?

[Ballyhoo]

fish store probably keeps them till they sell or die and then restocks the tank. You don't know if those fish were from todays shipment and haven't been harmed, yet, by the tanks conditions.

[Lillyan]

I know that. So is it true about their need for 'perfect' water?

[platytudes]

Tank raised discus don't need super soft water. You can feed them a quality staple diet, such as New Life Spectrum pellets, and they will be ok with that - they thrive on frozen and prepared foods. But if you are financially pinched, I would not consider them - they are not hardy, easy fish by any means. Cichlids are harder to keep than most community fish such as barbs, tetras etc., and discus are difficult cichlids although not the most difficult. They do need extra care to do their best. Better food than most fish, more water changes (one 50% weekly should be ok) and access to medication since they do come down with things...all cichlids, including discus, are more prone to HLLE, so having things like Nitrofurazone and Metronidazole handy are helpful.

[platytudes]

They need good water quality. They can't tolerate ammonia spikes or lingering nitrates. pH has to be very stable. Think of them as similar to puffers in their care. They are as challenging as saltwater fish, more so in a way because there are lots of other methods (live rock, protein skimmers) that SW tanks keep their tanks water quality high. With freshwater, all we can do is use expensive disposable media such as Chemi-Pure. Discus are a fish that are worth the extra expense of high quality carbon replaced on a regular basis.

[Lillyan]

Hmm, ok. I am not trying to own any, just curious to get more truth about them. Thanks.

[DiscusOnly]

Keeping discus is not hard if you keep things simple. If you have to ask a LFS for advice, you are probably going to head down the wrong road.

It's one of the more expensive fish to get and maintain. They require clean water and that could be more frequent water change. The key is to get quality fish to start with and unfortunately, you are not going to find too many at a LFS.

[Lillyan]

Yes, I never listen to lfs advice. When I see them keep Betta in cups HALF the size of Petco cups, you know they are pulling stuff outta their bums. Some, even smaller than that. Based on how well the tanks are kept also tells me what I can believe and what I can't. Only got that plant because it was in perfect condition. I refused other plants I wanted because they already had BBA growing, leaves coming off or an insane price. $7 for a very tiny, common plant, no way.
I thought the Discus must of been new, they looked far too beautiful, very perky and interested.


DiscusOnly, do you own only Discus? That would be very dedicated... ^.^

[DiscusOnly]

DiscusOnly, do you own only Discus? That would be very dedicated... ^.^

As my username suggested, discus is about the only fish I keep. It's about the only fresh water fish I am interested beside the rare pleco and monster fish. Unfortunately, I don't have room for any monster fish.

[MrsMoose]

I have discus as well, I do not use carbon on my discus tank only foam. I do water changes daily and on occasion only every other day.I have a python hose so it only takes about 5 maybe 10 minutes to maintain their water each day which I usually do while having a bit of me time in the evenings after the kids go to bed. I feed mine freeze dried black worms, frozen beef heart, frozen blood worms and a staple diet.My ph is 7.2 out of the tap so that is what mine live in. I do not buy from lfs I would only buy from a reputable dealer or a fellow hobbiest.

[RiVerfishgirl]

Discus, due to being propagated extensively in the hobby at this point in various water conditions do not have a super high care level regarding water chemistry (they do not need extremely soft water as used to be thought). They do require clean water with low nitrate levels to remain healthy, and lots of meaty foods for growth in the juvenile stage, which = more waste and the need for lots of water changes.

But I would not buy from a LFS that does not specialize them because they may already not be healthy and you will be disappointed when they die. Discus, once their health is allowed to deteriorate are hard to get to recover, so it's best to buy healthy, parasite free stock.


Back to the fish, can't they be cared for like other fish? No way this store cared obsessively over them, the tanks they were in were covered in BBA and other issues. Basic needs met, no more, I'm sure. But they looked amazing....I think this was already mentioned, but many stores order them in healthy and allow their health to deteriorate due to improper feeding and dirty water. If they don't sell them quickly you'll generally notice they start looking really bad. So how they look in the fish store, especially if they just got them in, doesn't really represent their hardiness level (which is pretty high given good water quality).

And I'm not sure how much you've researched discus, but the average fishkeeper does often think the discus look great at the store, when in actuality someone experienced with discus would look at them and see sickly, poor quality, and/or discolored fish.

Oh and another thing is the discus they get in may be hormone treated and given color enhancing supplements, so having good color doesn't always = healthy. In many cases if you see juveniles in a LFS with very vibrant colors it can be expected that those colors have been attained by using methods other than just proper care. Because almost any discus will discolor some when put in a new environment, especially if the water is different than what they were previously in.

[wesleydnunder]

I've kept discus since '89 and have learned that much of what you've already read in this post is true.

Three main requirements for successfully keeping discus:
1. Keep 'em warm - 82F to 86F
2. Keep 'em clean - For tank-raised adults, I'd do no less than weekly 50%, for growing juvies daily 50%, for adult wilds every other day 50%
3. Keep 'em fed - discus, like most other fish, need a variety of foods to maintain optimum health. These foods can be combined in a mixture or fed separately over the course of the week. Discus are slow eaters, often referred to as grazers. Mostly, they let the food fall to the bottom and peck at it leisurely. Housing them with aggressive eaters is not a good idea for this reason (i.e. loaches, angels and other cichlids). Uneaten food fouls the water quickly so should be removed. You learn quickly how much to give a group of discus at each feeding.

I disagree that discus aren't hardy, as posted earlier in this thread. In their world, they're pretty tough fish. Wild discus sporting scars and missing fins from pirahna hits attest to that.

Also, I don't think things like carbon or purigen are necessary for discus aquaria.

Not magic to keep discus, just a little more work...but they are sooooo worth it.

Mark

[fishorama]

I've had discus for a year now after 2 failed attempts many years ago. Juveniles are a lot of work to grow out well. Lots of feeding & clean water. I've gradually cut back from WCs every day to every other day. They produce a lot of slime that needs to be cleaned off the glass & decor too.

Adults are less work but I'm still planning on more attention to their needs than my other tanks. They are BIG fish that need big tanks.

Discus can become stunted rather easily, those 3 inch colorful fish sound like they might be. Your best bet as others have said is to get them from a reputable source. Plan on lots of work, you may be able to cut back but better to do that than wish you had.

[platytudes]

I disagree that discus aren't hardy, as posted earlier in this thread. In their world, they're pretty tough fish. Wild discus sporting scars and missing fins from pirahna hits attest to that.

Also, I don't think things like carbon or purigen are necessary for discus aquaria.

You're right, they are hardy in their world...I [perhaps mistakenly] was just using the adjective hardy as in "zebra danios are hardy" - hardy as in, fish that can tolerate less than perfect care. And it sounds like discus can't tolerate that for very long. So perhaps instead of saying delicate, we should say demanding. Frail gouramis, Ctenops nobilis, are delicate. Discus are demanding.

Carbon and Purigen, or chemical filtration of any sort for that matter, are certainly not necessary in any aquaria, but they do give more leeway if you cannot commit to changing water more than once a week (which for most people is already enough of a pain). They need to eat a lot of high protein foods, one reason for having to do so many water changes but IMO a good reason for the less than extremely dedicated discus keeper to use chemical filtration.

Discus are specialist fish. They need to be kept alone (not with angelfish or cichlids, for the feeding reasons above) save for dither fish who also like the same water chemistry and temperature.

They require extraordinary (literally, extra from the ordinary) care compared to most fish. Not necessarily more than other demanding fish such as wild bettas, but out of all the fish you can commonly expect to see at the LFS, discus are definitely one of the most difficult.

Just my two cents! I'm no expert by any means, never had discus.

[DiscusOnly]

The problem with discus is that they don't usually belly up and die overnight. They slowly deteriorate into poor health and getting all the other discus in the tank sick.

[stephcps]

I have had discus for a little over a year. Adults and juvies. They are by far, in my opinion some of the most difficult fish to keep. Even when you have adults that don't require the 4-6 times a day feedings...they need lots of water changes. I try to go once a week, but usually end up doing twice a week 30-50% water changes. I have to treat them for internal parasites on more than one occassion. Not counting the cost of the fish...I have spent TONS of money trying to keep these fish healthy and happy.
I think they are absolutely without a doubt some of the most beautiful fish out there...but they definitely require more care. They do fine with my staright out of the tap water...no difficulties there. They do not need all the soft water low ph stuff you read about. But most defintiely money and time consuming.

[nc0gnet0]

Needy is relative to ones perspective. They do like temperatures on the warmer side 82-86+. Warmer water leads to increased bacterial growth in the water. As such, water changes more frequently are required. Any substrate can amplify this increased bacteria, so gravel is a no no unless you are very careful how much you feed. Sand is a bit better, but bare bottom is by far the easiest to maintain.

Not a big fan on AC, but purigen I like, although not neccesary.

[Sportsnutim]

i use a foam filter system for one of my tanks 38 and Penn Plax Cascade 1000 with all the media including charcoal for a 55 and a 38 have had really good luck. I keep a log of all my water changes use the correct chemicals in moderation and also depends on how many fish are in each tank on how many water changes per week. More fish in a tank more water changes 30-50% max. Have had great success.

[Sportsnutim]

Needy is relative to ones perspective. They do like temperatures on the warmer side 82-86+. Warmer water leads to increased bacterial growth in the water. As such, water changes more frequently are required. Any substrate can amplify this increased bacteria, so gravel is a no no unless you are very careful how much you feed. Sand is a bit better, but bare bottom is by far the easiest to maintain.

Not a big fan on AC, but purigen I like, although not neccesary.

Agreed, don't like the temp to high unless they are ill, if ill I usually put them in a sick tank.