~Newbie help!~Plecos Keep Dying

[Nightangel486]

Hello everyone!

I've joined this forum in the hopes someone wil be able to provide some theories/insights for me. I've tried consulting Google and I'm sure there are similar posts here, but every tank is unique so I'd like to know if it is something with the tank causing the problem.

My boyfriend and I have a 29 gallon planted freshwater aquraium (no salt), gravel bottom, that has been up and running 4-4.5 months now, it appears to be cycled as using the master test kit shows the ammonia, nitrate/nitrite levels are all at 0 or minimal; pH stays at/around 7, temp sits at 80. We had several Glofish in there when we first bought it, they were doing alright but may have been past their prime when bought as within the past week or so we've gone from 6 down to 2. They haven't shown any signs of sickness and simply became sluggish before slowly dying off so I'm guessing it was old age? We also have 5 harlequin rasboras and 7 cory catfish that have all been doing fine.

The problem is these plecos! The tank is planted so algae hasn't really been a problem until now, we decided to get an algae eater to help with the minimal algae we do have (we had algae wafers as well but never got a chance to use them). We've since gone through 3 in a matter of weeks, with the plecos dying within a few hours after being placed in the tank!

The first one we bought from a locally owned store, he was rather small and I was astonished when the salesgirl grabbed him out of his tank with her hand, that's not good for them right?! The bf didn't acclimate him long enough IMHO, he was put into our tank after only 30 min or so of floating in the bag w/tank water added, so I'm guessing a combination of all these factors contributed to his death, he was acting strangely and died within hours.
The 2nd came from Petsmart, we went with another small one since the tank is only 29 gallons. This one we placed in a small styrofoam cooler we use to hold the fish when doing bigger water changes. He stayed in there about an hour, but also died within hours of being put in the tank.
Sooo we did about a 20% water change as usual, changed the filter, and this time went for a medium-sized pleco in hopes he'd be more hardy. He was acclimated in his bag floating in the tank for an hour or more, adding water gradually to the bag. He seemed fine at first and was swimming around, sucking on the glass etc, but also died that night.
The same day we also added another filter to the other side of the tank to help filter/circulate water.
Please help me figure out what is killing these fish! If a pleco won't work, are there any other algae eaters you can reccommend?

[Plague]

What type of pleco is it? I would like to let you know the typical pleco reaches 18" in length and won't fit in your tank.

[Nightangel486]

I'm not sure on the specific breed, they've all been your common brown spotted ones that you see in most pet stores. I'm well aware how large they get, had one when I was younger that got huge and lived forever! We'd planned to take it back/exchange it when they got too big to keep

[bradlgt21]

My suggestion is you just get a bristlenose pleco. They only reach about 4.5 inches and you can keep them in this tank forever. I was going to suggest getting a piece of driftwood because many pleco's require wood to digest the algae property. But that would be dying after like a week, not less then 1 day. It sounds like a acclimation problem. If they are that finicky for some reason try a drip aclimation.

Float the bag for like 10-15 minutes to get the temp right then put the bag in a bucket and take air line tubing and tie a knot in the middle. Put one end in the tank and the other in the bag with the fish, suck on the end to get water moving and use the knot to adjust the flow. Make sure it's a drip and not a constant stream and come back in like a half hour and net the fish and put it in.

I still stress you should get a fish that is suitable for your tank. I have 2 BN pleco's in my 29 gallon and they are really pretty fish and do a great job with Algae.

[Plague]

Or you can get a rubberlip pleco. They both (bristle nose and rubber lip) get around 6 inches max.

[BettaFishMommy]

responses in green.



it appears to be cycled as using the master test kit shows the ammonia, nitrate/nitrite levels are all at 0 or minimal; any ammonia or nitrite readings and your tank is still cycling. test your water parameters at least once a day and do a water change if you have any ammonia or nitrite readings.


The first one we bought from a locally owned store, he was rather small and I was astonished when the salesgirl grabbed him out of his tank with her hand, that's not good for them right?! this could have aided in the demise of this pleco, as grabbing it most likely removed a good portion of slime coat, as well as stressing the heck out of the fish.


Sooo we did about a 20% water change as usual, changed the filter, <-- changed all the media (sponges, etc)? you removed all the good bacteria that had been building up in the filter and now your tank is back at square one, un-cycled. daily testing for ammonia and nitrites and large volume water changes to keep those test results at zero. don't add any new fish until you are consistently getting zero readings for ammonia and nitrites.

[captaincaveman9]

Can you tell us how you treat your water? what is your tank maintenance schedule like? How do you clean your tank? What other creatures do you have in the tank? Also 80 is a little high, generally mid 70's is where you want the temp

Also, to the other posters, recommending other plecos for her tank will not help her treat the original problem and other plecos can be more sensitive to what is killing off her common plecos

[bradlgt21]

The reason some of us are giving her advice on the pleco is because she is planning on putting a fish in. We want to try to give her advice before she makes that happen and maybe regret it later.

[coach_z]

This one we placed in a small styrofoam cooler we use to hold the fish when doing bigger water changes. He stayed in there about an hour, but also died within hours of being put in the tank.
When you do water changes, you remove all of your fish? This is basically unnecessary, just leave at least 25% of the water in the tank and your fish will be able to swim just fine. Always remember to use a water conditioner such as Prime which is made by Seachem. It is a great product and recommended by a vast majority of forum members here. Your weekly water change should be between 25% and 50%.

What are your exact water parameters? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate? and others if you have them, they may be very important to your problem.

Also, assuming your tank is cycled, and you perform proper weekly maintenance you should not end up with much algae and shouldnt really need a pleco to beginwith. If you feel you need/want a pleco make sure to do a 2 hour drip acclimation for your tank next time, it sounds like you might need it.

[coach_z]

Can you tell us how you treat your water? what is your tank maintenance schedule like? How do you clean your tank? What other creatures do you have in the tank? Also 80 is a little high, generally mid 70's is where you want the temp

Also, to the other posters, recommending other plecos for her tank will not help her treat the original problem and other plecos can be more sensitive to what is killing off her common plecos
I agree with everythign here esp the fish recommendations....lets figure out your problem instead of guess/check.


The reason some of us are giving her advice on the pleco is because she is planning on putting a fish in. We want to try to give her advice before she makes that happen and maybe regret it later.
Actually recommending fish isnt helping at all because it is not helping to solver her underlying problem. We should work to figure out the cause, and then recommend a solution.

[FINJOY]

BUT VERY DIRTY AS THEY ARE POOP FACTORIES. AND YES THEY DO A GREAT JOB OF CLEANING A TANK UP, EXTREMLY SLOW GROWERS.....

[Nightangel486]

Thanks guys! I'm at work at the moment so I will give specifics on the water later. The tank is more of the boyfriend's hobby but as I'm helping pay for the fish I figured it'd be a good idea to figure out why they are dying before we decide whether to get another or not! Even if we don't, it's such a mystery to me that I'd like to figure out what's going on anyway!

But as far as the filter goes we keep 2 of the filter pads in there without the carbon (not sure if that's good or not so let me know if that needs to be changed) so that if we need to change it, one can remain in there with all the bacteria. Hopefully having a filter on each side of the tank will help too.

I can also tell you we usually do a 20-30% water change every other week at least, using the gravel vac to get stuff up off the bottom, then add the water treatments/stability/stress coat as well as some nutrients for the plants (though perhaps using too much is what's causing the algae?). When we first got the tank set up ammonia was a problem, so we removed the fish and did a massive water change (about 80%), since then everything has been stable, tonight I'll have him use the test kit so I can get exact numbers on everything and what brands of water treatments we use.

Aside from the few Glofish we've had from the very beginning dying off all the other fish I listed above have been the only things in the tank, and have been doing fine, when we bought this last pleco we also added 5 guppies that were in the same bag w/the pleco, acclimated the same amount of time and added with him, and while he died they are all doing fine, so I'm really stumped here!

[Nightangel486]

When you do water changes, you remove all of your fish? This is basically unnecessary, just leave at least 25% of the water in the tank and your fish will be able to swim just fine. Always remember to use a water conditioner such as Prime which is made by Seachem. It is a great product and recommended by a vast majority of forum members here. Your weekly water change should be between 25% and 50%.

What are your exact water parameters? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate? and others if you have them, they may be very important to your problem.

Also, assuming your tank is cycled, and you perform proper weekly maintenance you should not end up with much algae and shouldnt really need a pleco to beginwith. If you feel you need/want a pleco make sure to do a 2 hour drip acclimation for your tank next time, it sounds like you might need it.
We don't normally remove the fish to do water changes, but when the tank was first cycling ammonia was a huge issue and the tank wasn't being cleaned thoroughly enough, so we removed them to the cooler once to do a massive water change and vacuum the gravel better. Since then the tank has been stable.

[Bubbles2112]

Nerite snails are a perfect algae eating machines and do not require much in the way of care. Olive snails are a U.S. native snail and very effective.

You definately have some issues with your tank though that you need to address prior to getting more fish. The water parameters are necessary. Also, can you tell us specifically the names of the filters that you are using? In skimming over your postings I didn't see them, sorry in advance if you have already put them in here but tending to my filter/tank and running in and out of here.

[ianab]

Just to add to what everyone else has said, if the sales girl could reach in and grab a small pleco it was practically dead when you got it. Normally they are a real mission to catch and buying a healthy one usually involves a lot of muttering and moving of ornaments in the tank. They are shy fast and will take cover behind anything in the tank to avoid being caught. So in that case I think you got a sick one.

As for picking them up by hand, thats actually the best way to move larger ones as their spines can get snagged in the net, If you have ever picked up a large pleco you will realise that handling them does about as much harm as handling a piece of sandpaper. Your hand will wear down before their skin does.

Sorry thats not an exact answer to why they died, but they are normally very hardy and usually the last to die if you have water quality problems.

Ian

[Nightangel486]

Yeah that was the image I had always of pleco's that they were pretty hardy fish, which is why this is so strange to me to have them die, when I was younger we had one in a smaller tank that got to be huge and lived forever!

As for the water I'm pretty confident that the ammonia/nitrates/nitrites are all at 0 or within the lowest/safe levels when we test the water w/the master kit, which is another reason it's prerplexing to have them dying...as I said we did start out the tank with 6 Glofish, they survived the cycling process just fine and only within the past week-2 weeks have been dying off, not sure if it's for the same reasons, but like I said, none have appeared sick in any way, they just began looking slow/droopy before slowly dying off, and the 2 we have left are still fine. So with those I'm assuming they were pretty old when we bought them.

[jasonG75]

My suggestion is you just get a bristlenose pleco.


:iagree:

[kevinb120]

Meh, in a 29, stick with a couple ottos, a couple nerrites and a 6-pack of cory cats and give you a more interesting tank with less bioload then a single 6" pleco. They'll keep everything pretty much spotless (as much as fish can do outside of mechanical glass and filter cleaning/gravel vacuuming). You're really not going to have much algae anyway, you'll just get your diatom spike after a few months after it's full cycled that will last for a while, and ottos and nerrites are supreme at cleaning that stuff...

[EmilyMarie85]

Originally Posted by Nightangel486 http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/ms_icons_blue/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2442675#post2442675)
Sooo we did about a 20% water change as usual, changed the filter, <-- changed all the media (sponges, etc)? you removed all the good bacteria that had been building up in the filter and now your tank is back at square one, un-cycled. daily testing for ammonia and nitrites and large volume water changes to keep those test results at zero. don't add any new fish until you are consistently getting zero readings for ammonia and nitrites.

:iagree:

[Juzah]

How thick is your gravel?
At one point i had a similar problem, which was the bi-product of build up of 'stuff' under the gravel. Despite my frequent vacuuming, because i had recently decided to try planting the tank to some extent, it resulted in accidental poisoning of all the fish. I resolved the problem by thinning out excess gravel and removing the fish for a few days and placing them in a bare tank to recover - placin them back in the old tank after two more water changes and a significant amount less gravel.

-----

Though you haven't mentioned any existing fish in your tank dieing...so perhaps this isnt the problem; but figured id share just incase.

[Jspigs]

Yeah that was the image I had always of pleco's that they were pretty hardy fish, which is why this is so strange to me to have them die, when I was younger we had one in a smaller tank that got to be huge and lived forever!

As for the water I'm pretty confident that the ammonia/nitrates/nitrites are all at 0 or within the lowest/safe levels when we test the water w/the master kit, which is another reason it's prerplexing to have them dying...as I said we did start out the tank with 6 Glofish, they survived the cycling process just fine and only within the past week-2 weeks have been dying off, not sure if it's for the same reasons, but like I said, none have appeared sick in any way, they just began looking slow/droopy before slowly dying off, and the 2 we have left are still fine. So with those I'm assuming they were pretty old when we bought them.

In order to help we need the exact ammonia/nitrite/nitrate numbers not just "safe". :)

[user_name]

Or you can get a rubberlip pleco. They both (bristle nose and rubber lip) get around 6 inches max.

Adult bristlenose get from 3-5". The albinos tend to be smaller