How can I get rid of high NitrAtes......

[WaterBaby]

without tearing down the whole d**n tank for cleaning?

I have done water changes and the nitrates are still higher than I'd like them to be. They are about 40-80ppm now (they were over 80 before this last water change). I'd like them in between 10-30ppm.

I do regular vacuuming and water changes and also clean the interior filter housing when I vacuum. I only have one live plant in the tank and have no dead, decaying leaves in the tank. There isn't alot of algae either.

I don't understand why the nitrate levels won't go down... Maybe a faulty test kit?

I might also add that when I tested my tap water I found it to have about 10ppm nitrates.

[JSchmidt]

Sounds like you need to do larger and/or more frequent water changes. How much do you change now, and on what schedule?

Other things: get more mechanical filtration and clean the filter media more often; you'll be exporting waste before it can break down. Also, you can feed less food per feeding or less often; many aquarists overfeed. Look at your stocking levels; how many fish (and what kinds) do you have in your tank? What size is the tank?

Answering these questions should allow us to give you some suggestions.

HTH,
Jim

[tomm10]

Well, 10ppm out of the tap certainly isn't helping. :(

Plenty of live plants and regular water changes take care of it for me. I do about a 10-20% change every week and my nitrates stay under 20.

What is your bioload like? They only thing I can imagine is that you might be a bit overstocked? You're not adding ferts to your tank are you? Adding some simple plants like java fern would definitely help a lot. The plants love the nitrates.

Tom

[WaterBaby]

OK,

I do water changes with vacuuming "religiously" every 1 1/2 weeks (25%).

Setup is:

20g long
4 cories
4 scissortails
2 lemon tetras
2 red eyed tetras
2 dwarf gouramis

I think I am at my limit for fish. I would love to get more plants, but they seem to die. I only have a standard light setup with one floraglow bulb. I know that it's not enough to maintain plants, but I can't afford another hood at this time. I don't ad fertilizers.

I probably overfeed my fish. I feed them a little every day. Maybe I'll cut down on the feeding and see what happens. Also I'll try the weekly water changes and see.

[tomm10]

I would step up the water changes to every week and cut down on feeding. You could even go to feeding every other day until you get those nitrates down. Instead of dumping what you think is enough food in, try feeding just a pinch at a time. After a minute or so they'll start to slow down their feeding and you'll see a couple of peices go past them without chase. That's when you stop. I feed my fish like this every day and it only takes less than a minute.

There are low light plants like Java Fern and Java Moss that should be okay with that set up. They will definitely help.

[snakeskinner]

I was feeding twice a day in my 55 gallon and doing vacuuming/25% waterchange every 2 weeks and had a nitrate spike. My LFS advised me to do a 50% waterchange, no feeding for 5 days and then feed once a day and 25% waterchanges weekly and it's done wonders. I had a hard time feeding my fish since I have lots of small fish and a lot of food gets lost before they all get fed. It took some practice feeding them but I have gotten better. I tried turning off the filter and such to eliminate surface tension and it helps somewhat but I have lots of midwater fish that simply won't come to the surface for food so I have to allow a certain ammount to fall to them and in the process I still lose some. I'm keeping my nitrates around 20-30 right now. I am running a penguin 330 right now but plan to add another filter (hopefully an emporer 400 if I can afford it) to help out with filtration. good luck, KYle

[WaterBaby]

Question:

I just did a 25% water change yesterday. Should I do another 25% today, or leave it alone for a few days?

Thanks for all the replies! :)

[aquariumfishguy]

Well what was the nitrate levels after you just changed the water? You really shouldn't have to do daily changes. I have a few 20's which are used as breeding tanks and the nitrates stay 10-15 ppm with water changes every 2 weeks. Thats strange....

[WaterBaby]

Nitrate levels are about 40-80ppm (the color's so hard to read) now.

[ewok]

daily waterchanges are fine. the only consideration would be how close your tap water parameters are to your tank water. if you've been doing water changes regularly, this won't be a problem. do as much as you want or need to.

you don't have a UGF on this tank by chance?

[snakeskinner]

I believe 40 is acceptable. If they are higher, I would go ahead and do another water change unless your fish are just really stressed when you do a water change. Mine never care, they actually chase the little bubbles or bits that are getting vacuumed in the python. I know what you mean about reading the scale. I can use different light and angles to make them match about any color on the card. Kyle

[aquariumfishguy]

Originally posted by ewok
daily waterchanges are fine. the only consideration would be how close your tap water parameters are to your tank water. if you've been doing water changes regularly, this won't be a problem. do as much as you want or need to.

you don't have a UGF on this tank by chance?

Just to clarify, I think if you have special requirement fish or are trying to breed certain species of fish, daily partial water changes could be warrented.

With a 20 gallon tank, stocked with average run-of-the-mill fish, you should not have to do daily water changes. It's not that I think that it will harm your fish (besides unnessessary stress), but there is something causing your nitrates to stay so high. Simple doing excess water changes may or may not help the situation unless the root of the problem is resolved.

[ewok]

Originally posted by aquariumfishguy

With a 20 gallon tank, stocked with average run-of-the-mill fish, you should not have to do daily water changes.

a waterchange is almost NEVER a bad thing. you might find a one off situation where the parameters have slipped or the tapwater is wildly different from what's in the tank.

your fish come from an environment where there is either a huge volume of water or massive turnover rates constantly, and there might even be a combination of the two. why make your fish swim in a sewer when it is so cheap to do something about it? all water also contains trace elements that will also be depleted over time and some of them are neccesary i'm sure.

and to top it off, there is NO better way to ensure your fish stay healthy (unless you are adding the problems with the new water). the stress from doing water changes should be minimal if you are doing them regularly, and i'm sure they will forgive you for it.

in this situation it *could* be just a case of accumulated nitrates not being removed very well because of the volume, frequency and nitrates that come in in the new water. it takes quite a bit of volume thru changes in order to dilute something that is that concentrated, especially if you consider the fact that it is not a 1 for 1 change. you add the new water which then becomes diluted by the pollutants already existing........ so if you had 100ppm and did a 50% water change you still might only be removing 25% or 25ppm "if you're lucky".

to go back to the original point, a water change is almost NEVER a bad thing.

[JSchmidt]

I agree. I don't really think fish are that stressed out by a water change, and the more frequently you change water, the less out of the ordinary it is.

Jim

[WaterBaby]

Thanks guys! I think I'll keep doing small water changes every few days and see if they drop.

Ewok- No, I do't have an ugf on this tank.

I'll also try to feed less. Keep you all posted. :)

[aquariumfishguy]

Water changes aren't a "bad thing" by any stretch of the imagination. Plain and simple, they just aren't needed that often unless warrented. Surely, in this situation anyone can see that frequent water changes should be kept up but if the nitrates dont go down as expected, then there is a problem which not even daily water changes will help.

Futhermore, people who have balenced (cycled tanks) dont find that they even need water changes that frequent. Some respected members here report that after 2 weeks when they go to do their water change their nitrates are only about 2 more than they were before. So no, frequent water changes certainly won't "harm" the fish, but are they really needed? Thats all I was getting at...;)

Waterbaby, let us know how your tank does after a few days of frequent w/c's so that we can see if it was just an accumulation of nitrates or not. :)

HTH

[aquariumfishguy]

"One Inch Per Gallon" only works if talking about small, very slender fish such as neons, cardinals, danios, minnows, and possibly other tetras. The statement is generally becoming an outdated, myth. This is in no way to make it sound like your giving out bad advice, it's just that IMO there really is no "rule of thumb" when talking about a bio-load and/or how many fish you can keep.

[JSchmidt]

I agree with the comments about the uselessness of the 'inch per gallon' rule. I wish that would fade away... it's terribly misleading.

I don't agree that water changes aren't needed. Nitrates aren't the only harmful compounds that build up in tanks, they're just the easiest to measure. Planted tanks, for example, will often need to have additions of nitrates (or nitrogen-based compounds) for healthy growth. Planted tanks are not exempt, however, from the need for water changes. Dissolved organic compounds, pheromones and heaven know what else continue to build up, even in the absence of nitrates.

Nitrates are just a yardstick that we use to assess water quality. If nitrates are sky high, it's either a sign of a short term problem (e.g., a dead fish carcass) or of long-term insufficient maintenance.

If one were to err, I think erring on the side of too much water being changed is less likely to cause trouble than erring by not changing enough. IME, anyway.

Jim

[aquariumfishguy]

I (personally) was not recommending that they leave the nitrate level as is and forget about water changes...because that would cause more trouble as you said, but what I was saying is that it sounds like something else is going wrong or failing in the tank. If thats the case, you can do as many w/c's as you want but the problem should be resolved. I feel the same about medicating fish over the slightest problem. Treat the immediate problem first, without a doubt...but go back afterwards and look at the root problem. ;)

BTW, the only reason I tend to believe this might not be a maintenance problem is what they said....

"I do regular vacuuming and water changes and also clean the interior filter housing when I vacuum."