kids!!!

[mattj]

Okay I walk down this morning and peek at the 150g I'm setting up. Well, it seems the water is cloudy and there appear to be foreign objects in the tank. Turns out the kids decided to dump toys, books, dirty pajamas, etc. into the tank. I was furious. Fortunately I hadn't started stocking the tank yet. Oh well, must drain, rinse and refill tonight - replace filter media and such.

[sigmatauntaylor]

Wow thats crazy! But when you're a kid anything with that much water looks like something to play in! (of course ANYTHING with water in it was a toy to me when I was a kid! :D )

[FastFish]

Er, are you seeking advice or just posting an experience? I'm not sure what it would take to protect your tank in the future from such incidents, maybe one of the serrasalmus species?

[Max]

sorry about that at least it wasn't stocked! My 14 month old nephew decided that he was going to go swimming in my reef tank. Not much you can do to keep the little ones out of the water if they set their mind on getting in it! He came back over the next week walked straight to the tank and said," No No no no NO! " :D It sure wasn't funny then but, you can teach the little ones anything if you have enough patience with them. I don't know how old they are but, getting them their own tank might be a good idea so that can join you in the fun.

[Bristlenose Chuck]

If I ever have kids, my tanks will have a lock on them! :D I dred the day something like that happens to me.

[125gJoe]

You should be ecstatic, over-joyed to have such tall kids!!
Just think of the NBA salaries they will make someday! :D

[Karlsbad]

How old were the offenders?

[mattj]

Originally posted by 125gJoe
You should be ecstatic, over-joyed to have such tall kids!!
Just think of the NBA salaries they will make someday! :D

3 and 5, with the three year old filling the Michaeal Jordan role and the five year old trying to miniimize his role as "coach"

[Cearbhaill]

And their consequences?
There should be consequences, you know...

[J&JsTA]

Originally posted by Cearbhaill
And their consequences?
There should be consequences, you know...

Yes... Yes .. lets see ...... must eat their veggies for a month without complaint :scratch: .... when they start school they must walk in the winter ...... uphill..... all the way...... in 10' of snow ...... just in their jammies .....yeah, yeah that's the ticket :laugh:

[Cearbhaill]

What- you just say "ha ha honey- look what the little darlin's did now"?

Any toy or other posession that was put into the tank should be forfeited. I would explain that if you loved your toy you wouldn't use it in this manner- so now you can't use it at all.

They know that this is Daddy's special project, and that they damaged it. I'd be finding their most prized posession and imposing one week of denied access.

And I'd probably take all of the damaged goods and think up some chore to make the children do to fix them- whether it works or not isn't the point. The point is to make them sit and dry the books page by page for at least a day.

I know- I'm a hard case.
But this is disrespect for someone elses property and the sooner you make it clear to them the less likely you are to experience further *pranks*. Like borrowing your car without permission in a very few years.

Aquariums are "do not touch without adult supervision" objects.
Period.

(boy am I glad that my nest is now empty)

[J&JsTA]

he he .. I agree they need to know what they have done is wrong ... but they are our children and there is "nothing" more precious ...... sounds like you are over due for a visit from the grand kids :p :laugh:

[Julia]

Kids & pets are a tough combination, at least until the kids are old enough to get emotionally invested in the pets' welfare. Until then the Thundering Fury of the Father is your best weapon.

Safety is definitely an issue & I'm with Tando on fastening the hood shut. :) Kids that age can climb up anywhere. Also lock the cabinet or whatever you have for protection of your filters etc. Aside from the havoc caused by "what does this button do?" you could get up one morning & find water all over the floor. :p I used bungee cords to shut cabinets when my boys were little; that worked fine.

What does your set-up look like, mattj?

[viboy]

I disagree somewhat. There do need to be safeguards but kids are surprisingly willing to learn. My kids know not to go near the fish tanks without asking first. They are 14, 10, and 7 and they know that they are not even allowed to feed the fish without permission.

Safeguarding against a toddler drowning or toppling the fish tank is a good thing but they should not rule what you put in your tank. If you cannot enjoy your own hobby then what is the point.

Usually involving your kids in feeding the fish and letting them know that anything else will kill their pet will curtail them from putting anything foreign into the tank.

[Karlsbad]

Buy a canopy and put a file cabinet lock on it. When I was pricing them for my 90 the prices and stock varied at different petcos in the same area. I ended up getting my All Glass Pine for $100. Compared to the oak and maple next to the pine stuff in stores the pine looks rough but when I got it in my living room it looks nice. You can use a router to cut the slot or do a cheap and dirty poor man's routing that no one will ever know by drilling a few small holes close to each other and reaming them together with a small drill bit.

All Glass Stands and Canopies (http://www.all-glass.com/products/stands/index.html)

[OrionGirl]

I see 3 clear issues--one, the safety of your children. While this prank did not pose a threat to them, there are some fish that could, and children playing in water unsupervised is a problem--drowning, pulling the tank down, electrocution, consumption of hazardous chemicals, burns, etc. Second, the safety of your animals. I've heard many stories from people who's child/ren decided to clean the tank by dropping in some laundry detergent, or wanted to see if another pet could swim (cats, small dogs, rabbits, guinea pigs, rats, mice), or 'fed' the fish by dumping in an entire container of food. The third issue are the lessons the kids can learn from the tank--biology being just one small piece. Environmental conservation, respect for other's property, responsibility for ones actions, etc.

All three are important. Safegaurding the kids and the pets is important. Punishment for violating the rules are important for kids--while I'm not suggesting beatings, some punishment for misbehaving should be expected. I was punished when I gave my long hair calico hair cuts as a child--didn't hurt her at all, but it was a bad thing to do. If the kids are responsible for killing fish, what do they learn if there aren't any consequences?

[Hans]

THIS IS BULL URINE!

[Traci]

I have a 5 year old and a 2 year old. In my experience children of any age that are familiar with aquariums understand that you don't:

1) throw things of any kind in it
2) climb on/near the stand
3) put hands or other appendages into it
4) lean over or into it
5) tap on it
6) attempt to feed without supervision

Of course, this is a little less clear to my 2 year old who is convinced that the crayfish want to play with his toy (plastic) fish, than it is to my 5 year old.

I also have a 5 year old nephew and 4 year old niece and they don't have aquariums in their homes. They don't understand any of those basic concepts. They yell at the aquariums, tap on the glass, pull chairs up to them and lean in. I firmly tell them no, and I direct their attention to other activities. Because they aren't my kids and it's not my place to tell other people how I think they should discipline their children. If it becomes an ongoing problem I will either address with my sister or have my children play at her house.

When my 2 year old sticks his hand in the water I spank the back of his thigh. That's my perogative as his parent.

When a child I don't know beats on the glass at the State Aquarium, I inform an employee. I don't reprimand the child and I don't tell the parent how to reprimand the child either.

[adblair]

Well.... having 3 kids of my own.... I have to say that kids will be kids. When you have kids you have to make some sacrifices. Sometimes it will include small animals. :) Secure the lid for their sake. Punishment wise, that is something only you can determine because only you know your kids. With my oldest, I could have just said don't do that anymore, and she would have cried and things would have been fine. With my middle child, no amount of punishment would be enough. The only way to keep him out, is to include him in taking care of the tank - letting him pour in some water or feed the fish every day. He looks forward to it all day. Just knowing that he will get to "help" at bedtime is enough to keep him in line (aquarium wise) all day long. He still "looks" but he doesn't touch. He's 3 also btw.

[brookline45]

I was waiting for someone to say that! I have found the best way to gets kids to respect the aquarium is to get them involved and let them help from the start. This way is is not a mystery and since they feel involved they will be less likely to damage something that have an interest in. They will also learn how to interact with the aquarium properly. By saying this Daddy's/Mommy's private project and do not touch you are only increasing their curiousity and likelyhood they will get into trouble. I have had my three year old involved from the beginning. I let her feed the fish (I measure the food into a little cup first), hold assorted things when I am working on the tank, pick out a few fish (appropriate choices) at the LFS, etc.

It has been a great hobby for the both of us.

[Alicia]

I have 4 nephews ranging in age from 6 years to 1 1/2 years old. They don't have aquariums in their house except for the Fisher Price ones. The two 6 year olds and the 3 year old have grown up with my fish. Everytime they would come to their grandmas house when I still lived there they would always feed them, and they would even help with water changes everyonce in a while. Now they want their own, and my sister says thay can have one just as long as their aunt Alicia comes out and cleans it. I think that they can do it themselves.
I think that the people that said to get them involved were perfectly right. My nephews are 3 and 6 and they know the difference between a pool, the tub, and an aquarium. Good luck with your kids
:)

[mattj]

well, I got the water drained today. need to rinse and refill tonight. I should have anticpated this as my kids have done something similar to each of my other tanks *once.* Wish they were old enough to transfer that learning to new tanks. I think it's the curiosity about "something new" that gets the better of them. none the less there were consequences.

[NikkO]

that sucks a lot..150gallons wasted. Was the water already cycled? or would it already be easy for it to cycle quicker?

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by Hans
THIS IS BULL URINE!
Technically, you are wrong on this one..
This is the Bull 'stuff'....... :D

http://www.huntsmart.com/images/product-m/KH-OA1024-m.jpg

[jb_lyndon]

I don't know about the whole "kids will be kids" mentality.
I mean if they've done it before, however precious it may have seemed when your little angels were exhibiting an interest in TRASHING your aquarium, and then done it a second time it strikes me that it's a nurture rather than nature problem. I don't think many give enough credit to children... they are MUCH smarter than most think and it really p1sses me off when people treat their kids like stupid little sub-humans. Try talking to them before a potential catastrophy. In this particular case (after the fact) it's obviously too late. There is no question that discipline is definitely in order, but don't rely on punishment alone as a solution... if you sit down and actually talk (and I mean calmly discuss, NOT lecture) to a 3 year old, you may be suprised how much he/she will understand and retain. Instilling respect in a child fundamentaly requires YOU to show respect to the child. And by no means am I suggesting that some good harsh punishment is inappropriate, it is absolutely necessary. But after they've been made to feel bad about what they've done, actually talk about the situation with them. This all seems very obvious but it seems to me that so many parents neglect to see the true intellegence of their kids and thus fail to give them the respect that they too deserve. Not all kids are "kids!!!" and some have went so far as to say that there are no such thing as bad kids only bad parents ;)

good luck.

[adblair]

Do you actually have kids? If you do, then you should surely understand that it is because of their intelligence that kids will be kids. Kids are constantly experimenting with their environment and learning from it. A toddler pouring juice on the floor and playing in it has nothing to do with deliberately disobeying you, it is just an experiment to see how the juice pours/smears/soaks in. Your suggestion that "good harsh punishment" is "absolutely necessary" is, IMO, misguided. You do not know these kids. Only someone who does know them is capable of determining what punishment is appropriate for them. Maybe it is appropriate for SOME kids, but none of us are in a position to determine what is right for THESE kids.;)

[Traci]

Okay, I too have to admit I'm sort of concerned about the level of harshness that you would inflict on children you don't even know. There's sort of a rule of thumb most of us parents go by, and that's that the punishment should fit the crime. And you will note, punishment in the singular. Without knowing this parent, these children, and exactly what happened in the past leading up to this, you would have the man inflict harsh punishment, purposely make them feel bad, and then have a man to man conversation with a 3 year old. Yes, actually, kids are kids. To expect a 3 year old to grasp a series of relatively complicated events relating to cause and effect is ridiculous. They aren't sub-humans, and shouldn't be treated as such, but they aren't adults either and also shouldn't be treated as such.

And basically, it's not your place to comment on how another person is raising their children or the quality of his or her parenting, based on a single instance shared on a forum.

[Cearbhaill]

To expect a 3 year old to grasp a series of relatively complicated events relating to cause and effect is ridiculous.
But expecting them to know not to trash another persons belongings is not ridiculous- it is quite necessary.
Basic respect for things not belonging to you is a very important part of living in a society. I don't believe it is ever too soon to teach this.

And basically, it's not your place to comment on how another person is raising their children or the quality of his or her parenting, based on a single instance shared on a forum.
I really find it funny when folks put out their dirty laundry and then complain when people begin to sort through it.
Like whining about what a rogue your husband/boyfriend is and then spending two weeks defending him to those audacious enough to comment.
It would never have come up if the OP had not told the charming story in the first place. We only discuss what's put in front of us.

Edit: I could have sworn this was in GCC- sorry for being off topic.

[Traci]

Cearbhaill,

Although I can appreciate your intent in iniating lively debate, I wasn't in fact commenting on your post directly. I believe I did so previously. I was responding to jb_lyndon's post, as I should have made more clear.

In regards to your post, I believe I mentioned that there should be guidelines and there should be consequences, and that that was entirely the perogative of the parent involved. How they involve their children in their aquaria hobby is up to them, and how they reprimand for interfering in the same is also up to them.

In regards to jb_lyndon's post, I believe I was fairly clear on that as well.

Instilling respect of other's belongings as well as their own should be a component of parenting. Agreed. However, you cannot expect (as jb_lyndon would) to have a conversation with a 3 year old about the cycling process, the effects of introducing foreign items into that process, the amount of work required to set up a 150, how their actions stalled the process, wasting 150 g of water, etc. etc. at length, as jb_lyndon suggested. That's ridiculous. Regardless of how precocious a child might be intellectually, he or she is still only a child.

I don't believe matt was complaining in the original post, nor do I think that he was inviting comment on his parenting skills or soliciting advice about raising his children. Plenty of people responded to his post without make sarcastic comments referring to his children as "precious," or "little angels" (a la jb_lyndon) or to quote your post, "little darlins'," or going to pains to point out how a 5 year old and a 3 year old "trashed" his tank. They threw some stuff into an unstocked tank. (Incidentally, the concern should be for safety of the children, not safety of the tank. They didn't take sledgehammers to the thing after all, although there is a real possibility that they might have fallen in.) Matt called no harm, no foul, I assume he took appropriate action with his children (his appropriate action, not ours), and moved on. He's not the one responding to this, I am. And I still don't think it's anyone's place to tell the man how to discipline his children, particularly not in the manner in which jb_lyndon did.

But that has nothing to do with fish, so let's move on, shall we?

eta - yes I can spell correctly...sometimes

[tricksterpup]

Ok, I know this thread is gone way off topic, but I find it very interesting.
I suggest re-reading the thread again and try and see the differences in the responses by sex here. The responses are very different.
I am personally not going to comment on punishment or what to do, since that has been already done and why beat a dead horse?



jim

[Cearbhaill]

But that has nothing to do with fish, so let's move on, shall we?
Hear, hear!
That we can all agree on!

[jb_lyndon]

Originally posted by Traci


you cannot expect (as jb_lyndon would) to have a conversation with a 3 year old about the cycling process, the effects of introducing foreign items into that process, the amount of work required to set up a 150, how their actions stalled the process, wasting 150 g of water, etc. etc. at length, as jb_lyndon suggested. That's ridiculous.

And I still don't think it's anyone's place to tell the man how to discipline his children, particularly not in the manner in which jb_lyndon did.



Sorry guys but I have to defend myself just a little here.

First Off I have to apologize to mattj, if I've offended you in any way... I wasn't directly calling you a "bad parent" just using an old cliche to suggest that it's possible that kids may be inately good. I know you didn't ask for parenting advice but after reading some of the replies I was diverted to a parenting focus.

So to Tracy I Repeat: "if you sit down and actually talk (and I mean calmly discuss, NOT lecture) to a 3 year old, you may be suprised how much he/she will understand and retain. Instilling respect in a child fundamentaly requires YOU to show respect to the child."

WHere here, Traci, did you get the idea that I suggested conducting a highschool biology lecture??


"And by no means am I suggesting that some good harsh punishment is inappropriate, it is absolutely necessary."

I may have been a little unclear here but the term that I used... "good harsh punishment", is completely subjective and here left fully up to the discretion of the parent... All I was suggesting is that Yes punishment is necessary and should probably rate at the high end of the parents scale of discipline. Obviously though Traci, you jumped to the worst possible conclusion and expect that I'd beat the little guys with my gravel cleaner or something?!?!? Where I come from harsh punishment can be as little as raising your voice with just enough authority to impact your kids and let them know that you are indeed SERIOUS (excuse the caps, I'm not suggesting yelling as Traci might deduce) and make them sit in a chair for 5 minutes. Uh Oh... Traci might be right... maybe I am EVIL... fear the wrath of the horrendous Chair-Sitter ;)

And yes Traci I would "purposely make them feel bad", unless of course mattj wants them to do it again or wants them to think it's all just a funny prank. Note that he mentioned that this has happend before so I'm sure that the kids understood that what they were doing wasn't very nice. IMO any child who behaves disrespectfully (to this extreme) should unquestionably be made to feel remorse for what they've done. Followed of course by a good calm and loving talk about the "bad feelings" experienced on both sides.

Sorry Traci but I didn't quite appreciate your interpretation of my post and your indirect attack at me.

Ok back to fish!

[mattj]

Originally posted by Tando Murphy
OK.....both of you, go to your rooms!



LOL! Only a dozen posts and I'm a lightning rod of controversey.

[Traci]

This is pointless. You have a parenting style, I have a parenting style, matt has a parenting style.

To me, harsh = painful, physical punishment. To me, a the idea of getting a 3 year old to sit still in one place long enough to have any kind of meaningful form of respectful "talk" is laughable, and is about as likely as getting them to understand high school biology. To me 5 minutes of time out is appropriate for a 5 or 6 year old, and loses all impact for a 3 year old. To my children, raising my voice is a sign of anger, not a sign of seriousness. And to me, punishing my children the day after an infraction of this nature is punshing with anger, not with love, and certainly not with respect.

Obviously your definitions and experiences differ from mine.

[OrionGirl]

And to me, this is now too far off topic.

G'night, Gracie!