PDA

View Full Version : quick plant question.



Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 2:29 PM
I have plants in my 75 gal and 30 gal that are struggling. They were nice and green when I got them but now they seem to be dying. The leaves are becoming brown and transparent and droopy. The plants in my 10 gal are fine. The 30 and 75 have floating plants in them, could those floating plants be blocking the light and causing the issue?

There is no CO2 I dose with flourish and use root tabs. The 75 has play sand substrate and the 30 is small pebbles.
thanks for the help!

wespastor
10-23-2010, 3:33 PM
What lighting do you have and what are the plants specifically?

Do you do any other dosing?

Best wishes,
Wes

shewolfgeo
10-23-2010, 3:42 PM
are these new plants you got? Or have they been in the tanks for some time now?

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 3:56 PM
amazon swords - 4 plants (~6")
Hygro difformis - 5 stems (~6")
Lugwigia arcuata - 4 stems (~4")
Ozelot sword - 1 plant (~5")
Dwarf sag - 5 plants

The lights on the 75 are a metal Halide, I'm not sure of the wattage it came with the tank
and on the 30 is a coralife with a 6700K bulb and a colormax bulb.
I don't dose anything else.

Lab_Rat
10-23-2010, 4:34 PM
If you bought them from a LFS, they were likely grown emersed. When planted submerged, you can expect a good bit of die off then the plant should come back strong. Sometimes plants just don't like certain tanks. I'll buy a plant, if it doesn't do well in my tank (I don't inject CO2) then I don't buy it again.

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 4:50 PM
I bought them from someone on here

captaincaveman9
10-23-2010, 8:59 PM
what plants do you have floating? the Ludwigia arcuata?

All the plants you have would do better with root tabs and all being planted. it could be blocking out the light. how often and how much flourish do you dose? what else is in the tank, and like asked before, what lighting do you use?

KevG
10-23-2010, 9:17 PM
My patch of pennywort can block out quite a bit of light and until I trim them back they do steal light from all my other plants around.
I just want the pennywort to flower once! lol
Surface plants steal light from all below- fact.
Have your surface or floating plants located in one area of the tank and the mid to low plants elsewhere respectively.
In my 80g fully planted I dose twice a week (less than full dose) flourish and iron.
Never just before or after water changes as the dechlor will attempt to solidify the iron and it will turn to waste instead of fertilizer.
You should add basic co2 diy basic is easy! or buy the kit and then diy from there.

alan j t
10-23-2010, 9:20 PM
root tabs will help alot. how old are the bulbs?

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 9:21 PM
salvinia minima is the floating plant.
In the 75 there are Blood Parrots, Corydoryas, a Severum and a Jack Dempsey, the lighting in this tank is not a metal halide it is a compact fluorescent
In the 30 there is a GBR pair and some CPD's, the lighting on this tank is a coralife with a 6700k bulb and a colormax bulb.
I dose the recommended dose of flourish every other day or so ( don't remember what that does is off hand )
I don't know the age of the plants. The package I bought had some trimmings ( which are doing well ) and the others had roots already ( which are the ones that aren't doing so well )

alan j t
10-23-2010, 9:24 PM
so just read the first post again, you do use root tabs.
hmmm sounds weird yoiur having issues.
the 30 should be fine with the light, i used it before with great results.

dundadundun
10-23-2010, 9:37 PM
yes, floaters can absolutely block out too much light. i'm not saying that's your problem... but if it's the only real difference between your growing tank and the other two...

2 solutions if it is...
increase the lighting quite a bit to make up for it
scoop some out during tank maintenance

it's easier to do maintenance with them out of the way anyway. i siphon some of the water into a bucket, grab a few huge scoops and toss them in there, then finish maintenance. when i'm done i may put some back and i may just let them dry out on the porch... depends on how badly it seems my tank needs the extra light... and a little of how it looks.

67chevelle
10-23-2010, 10:10 PM
I would replace the bulbs. If you did not buy them,then you do not know how old they are. Old bulbs are not good for plants. Most people suggest changing them annually.

How many watts of light do you have on the tanks that the plants are having problems?

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 10:13 PM
they 75 isn't covered with the floating plant, It's in about an 1/8 of the tank, but I had the light focused on the rear of the tank and have slid the light forward. the 30 is COVERED.

At one point even the floating plant was browning and dying. But those are from a different source than the other plants

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 10:15 PM
I would replace the bulbs. If you did not buy them,then you do not know how old they are. Old bulbs are not good for plants. Most people suggest changing them annually.

How many watts of light do you have on the tanks that the plants are having problems?


6700K bulb on the 30 and no idea on the 75

I don't know how to determine the watts per gallon

captaincaveman9
10-23-2010, 10:19 PM
6700K bulb on the 30 and no idea on the 75

I don't know how to determine the watts per gallon


Take your total gallons and divide by the wattage of the bulb

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 10:26 PM
the 30 has 2.2 watts per gallon in the 30 and 1.7 watts per gallon in the 75.

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 10:28 PM
the 75 gallon light bulb says
"Power compact
CSL #05146
65W smartlamp
www.customsealife.com"

KevG
10-23-2010, 10:38 PM
browning and dyeing with good conditions (light, co2 and o2) would indicate lack of iron.
I know you are not adding co2 but you should it's easy if you keep it simple.
You can dose iron with your 'flourish' to keep your plants heartier.

captaincaveman9
10-23-2010, 10:54 PM
the 75 gallon light bulb says
"Power compact
CSL #05146
65W smartlamp
www.customsealife.com"

so less than 1wpg in the 75, so the plants will wither out a lot but shouldn't die

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 10:59 PM
so less than 1wpg in the 75, so the plants will wither out a lot but shouldn't die

there are 2 of those bulbs in the 75 so 130watts

KevG
10-23-2010, 11:00 PM
my 80g fully planted only has 74 wpg but I have co2 basic and ferts and iron additive.
root tabs, flourish and iron and it works :)
Some grow more than a foot per month!
I'm allways cutting and replanting, I'm running out of room!

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 11:02 PM
I believe there is iron supplement in my tank box. If not I can go get some.
And if that doesn't help I'll deff add CO2

KevG
10-23-2010, 11:06 PM
the tips of plants going brown (under ideal conditions) are a sign of lack of iron.
sugar, yeast and a lil backing soda. well within your skills im sure!

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 11:08 PM
Oh yes I could make a CO2 system no problem :)
It is the plant tips so I'll start dosing Iron and work on the CO2. any good DIY threads on AC?


Hahaha just a thought.....
To make homemade wine all you really need to add to the CO2 recipe is juice, would be an awesome multi-task :P

dundadundun
10-23-2010, 11:08 PM
good gh and co2 and this package... http://www.bobstropicalplants.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=495 ... will cover everything as far as ferts/plant food is concerned. that package should more than pay for itself over liquid ferts too.

after that it's adjusting your dosage, light, timing, etc.. might take a bit with a different tank to learn it's quirks, but you can't be too far off with another tank doing well.

it does sound like the floaters might be the issue in the 30. a pic of the surface could help determine that.

Haydn24
10-23-2010, 11:14 PM
You could dose Seachem Excel for a carbon source aswell. On my 44g, pretty much nothing grows except for anubias and java ferns but in my 15g everything takes off and they are both similar in lighting and same in dosing.. Plants are wierd :) lol.

Ballyhoo
10-23-2010, 11:22 PM
full tank shot
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/heelsrock3/8f8ec547.jpg
Browning leaf
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/heelsrock3/fe7698a3.jpg
Other Browning leaf
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/heelsrock3/172f64b4.jpg
Floating plant cover
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/heelsrock3/808c9232.jpg

dundadundun
10-23-2010, 11:40 PM
i'd definitely start by taking about 2/3 of that floater out and see how that does for a bit (keeping up with removal to that extent once or twice a week).

when my floaters get like that in my 30 i'll see the same thing. sometimes a little algae starts showing up around my ambulia if it's starved for light enough. i skim the top pretty good leaving a fair amount of open space and almost like magic the tank seems to repair itself.

hmmm... and i'm sorry... my last post may be a little misleading. i would add root tabs to my list of course. osmocote is only $5 for enough to last quite a while, though, so no big deal, really.

KevG
10-23-2010, 11:49 PM
ya major blockage there!!
Like stated, trim that back to cover no more than a third of your tank surface.

captaincaveman9
10-23-2010, 11:49 PM
full tank shot



Floating plant cover
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/heelsrock3/808c9232.jpg

That looks like duck weed not what you said it was.. and that really would make things difficult for any plants under it

KevG
10-23-2010, 11:53 PM
I only have pennywort to worry about... that looks like duckweed or the like.
You will have to scoop that type of plant pretty much daily in an aquarium. In a pond the natural conditions make for a different game plan.

Ballyhoo
10-24-2010, 12:04 AM
There is duck weed mixed in
Here's a close up of the Salvina Minima (sp?)
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/shrillmicrobe/6829ee54.jpg

KevG
10-24-2010, 12:11 AM
ya you can't expect good plant growth under a canopy like that.
You either need to trim it back alot (like daily or more) to get any sufficient amount of light to your other plants or stick to very low light need plants below that cover.

excuzzzeme
10-24-2010, 12:37 AM
salvinia minima has 2 green leaves and 1 that is brown. You have duckweed

Ballyhoo
10-24-2010, 1:22 AM
salvinia minima has 2 green leaves and 1 that is brown. You have duckweed

They turn brown, I thought that meant it was dead so I scooped it out.
I was told it was Salvinia minima, I got it for free so i'm not too concerned about it

247Plants
10-24-2010, 5:48 AM
You indeed have salvinia minima and duckweed both, the salvinia is the larger of the two.

The top browning pic looks like it was caused by physical damage, the second one is normal for the leaf, color veining, if it looks and feels like the leaf is getting thinner then its a problem, if its still solid then its normal.

An increase in light would help on the 75 and DIY co2 on it is futile. It would take a ton of 2 liter bottles to make it even feasible to work. Look into pressurized.

Iron is not a normal deficiency, I wouldnt worry about dosing it just yet. Work on the light situation.

Your 30 gallon has sufficient light for low to medium low light plants.

bgourami320
10-24-2010, 7:08 AM
I also bought some plants for low light and no CO2, the same thing happend.They got thin and brown etc. Now however they are coming back, getting alot of new growth. Even got a baby Val growing in front of momma Val. I also use plant tabs and just got some flourish for the floating plants. So I guess they just have to get acclimated and given a chance to grow.

jetajockey
10-24-2010, 8:57 AM
definitely remove the floaters, or at least get them segregated to one side or the corners. It'll make a huge difference.