invertebrate setup

[lark]

I have a 10g I would like to put into action and am considering first either an invertebrate or amphibian. Other than a few mystery snails I have never kept either. Any suggestions? They would be the only thing in the tank.

Would a 10g be doable? It will be freshwater. I would like something a little odd and with some personality, if that can be had. On my list right now are crayfish, salamanders, and shrimp. I have seen for sale colored( blue and red) crayfish. I have never seen crayfish other then mud colored so I wonder, are the colors natural?

I remember an earlier thread about this subject but I couldn't seem to find it. I know a few of you here have invertebrates, so what do you have? What is the setup and maintenance?

Thanks

[OrionGirl]

A 10 will be good for one crawdad--I wouldn't put more than that in. They can be aggressive to each other, and will likely nsag any fish you add, tear up plants, and re-arrange decorations to their liking. Just a warning--they are cool. The color morphs are just that--statistically rare in the wild, but nothing more than a mutation that's encouraged in the hobby.

For amphibians--there are only a few fully aquatic amphibians. Most require an egress from the water--either floating pads or wood, or a tank that's 50/50. Dwarf and clawed frogs are the exception. You could have a single species tank of the dwarf frogs--would be fun. A single clawed frog would be pushing it, but okay. There are several kinds of newts easily available--they are fun, need some land, and low maintenance. They do require a well covered setup--mine eventually died from failed cross-carpet expeditions. I though the tank well covered--but openings about 1/2 x 1/4 inch were enough for them to get out.

[Wippit Guud]

Depending on the species, even one cray might be too much, I'm already going to move mine to a 29 because it's growing like I wish my plants would grow.

[valerie]

I have kept a crayfish in my 15g and he was one of my favorite pets. He would shred up plants like edward scissorhands chase around the fish(i added zebra danios for him to play with). There are a few species of crayfish that get big so you should watch out(its hard as petsotre never know the scientific names). You probably should be ok with jsut one though.

I have also tried keeping newts but never had any success. They never took to eating and eventually starved. I dont' think the amphibians at most petstores are very healthy. If you go with amphibians get them from a reptiles sort of store taht knows taht they are doing. Although you can usally find some ADF or ACFs that are ok at the LFS. I"m talkign about more the exotic frogs, newts and so on.

[OrionGirl]

The newts I had were the red bellies, and they are dumber than a post. Without direct feeding--meaning, stick the food right in front of their nose and wait for them to eat it--they tend to forage porrly. The larger, orange bellies are more aggressive and active--they will actively look for food. I have no experience with the greens, but they seem a bit heartier than the red-bellies.

[tomm10]

Originally posted by OrionGirl
The newts I had were the red bellies, and they are dumber than a post. Without direct feeding--meaning, stick the food right in front of their nose and wait for them to eat it--they tend to forage porrly. The larger, orange bellies are more aggressive and active--they will actively look for food. I have no experience with the greens, but they seem a bit heartier than the red-bellies.

I read somewhere (likely on the internet so it must be true :rolleyes: ) that the red bellied newts extrete some type of toxin through their skin and that you need to regularly clean the inside of the glass in the tank to keep the toxin levels from building up. Do you know anything about that? Could be complete crap for all I know.

Tom

[Traci]

Crayfish. Go with Crayfish. There are several species of crayfish that are indeed natively blue (not a color morph, but the normal range of color). Most occur in the Ozarks, and are somewhat rare in the aquarium industry. What you will generally see at most LFS are either a color morph of the P. alleni (which is what Oriongirl is talking about) or an Australian species of the Cherax group. Occasionally you will also see the O. immunis (as in my avatar), that is also a color morph that is encouraged during breeding. Both the immunis (still relatively uncommon) and the alleni will grow to about 6 inches and can be kept lifelong in a 10g. You could even keep multiple juveniles in a 10 with little problem as long as you give them plenty of caves, rocks, and other furniture to stake out. This won't last long term though. Cherax sp. can get very large, 12 inches. Obviously not a good choice for a 10.

Side note: the natural color morph of a cray (brown, red, pink, mud, whatever) can turn blue over time as a reaction to the aquarium light. This is apparently not harmful to the cray!

Crays do NOT need a heater. Ideally they should be kept at around 70 degrees, but no higher than 75. And no, your LFS guy doesn't know what they are doing keeping them in with tropical fish in the store. Crays also require a lot of aeration, such as bubble wall or multiple airsones.

Finally, crays are predators/scavengers. They are capable of catching fish, love to eat pond snails, and will grab at fins if they miss the fish. That being said, I keep 2 adult alleni and 1 juvenile in a 30 along with an assortment of white clouds, otos, paradise fish, and a large inca snail. The otos, being a bit slower than the crays, often become snack. I keep 1 adult immunis in a 10 set up as a viviquarium with some guppy fry and a large mystery snail.

My crays are a lot of fun to watch, they are acrobats, escape artists, and a very interesting focal point of my aquariums. My immunis, Tori, can be hand fed.

So I vote, crayfish!

ETA: Visist www.bluecrayfish.com for the best "pet" crayfish site bar none.

[OrionGirl]

Red Bellies do excrete a toxin, as do many amphibians. However, most that you buy in the store are commercially bred, and the toxicity is pretty low. Apparently, like dart frogs, the toxin is a bi-product of their diet in the wild. Of course, dart frogs are still pretty toxic, but the newts aren't the same. I kept a variety of fish in with mine and never had a problem. I started out doing massive water changes and running carbon, replaced weekly, plus tons of plans. I eventually reduced that to smaller changes, and no carbon, with no problems. The fish are all still alive. I was always careful to clean my hands well before and after handling them, but I never had a reaction to them of any kind--and I react to a wide variety of things, including live blood worms (though not the frozen ones), and several marine organism toxins.

[valerie]

I was also planning on turning my 15g(former crayfish tank now planted ram tank) after all teh fish are gone into a shrimp tank. I already have amanos and cherry shrimp. But would love to add bamboo shirmp, camorlfauge shrimp and any other kind they may have at the LFS.

I find inverts very interesting, the shrimps are the most interesting and most fun to watch part o fthe 15g.

I still vote for crayfish :p

[lark]

Mmmmmm......

The Ozark's are my neck of the woods so a blue crayfish would be fitting.

My water garden is full of snails that would make tasty treats.

I don't have a heater for this tank, but I do have an extra air pump.

Ok, I think Traci's avatar convinced me.
They look so cool.

Thanks all for the input!

[blitzen25bm]

just get one of the bluecrayfish from bluecrayfish.com i wish i could but im in california. i think 1 would be fine in a 10 gallon, mine liked a cave and a small driftwood so he could get out of the water.

[Traci]

Yeah, Tori (in the avatar) has her 10 set up with a submersible filter behind a wall of rocks with an overhanging cliff. I have it about 1/2 filled with spring water I collect at a local spring fed creek. I out in a branch overgrown with moss that runs the length of the tank and rests on a pillar of rocks .

The rocks were all siliconed down with aquarium sealant when I was setting up the tank.

The picture is several months old. Tori's moulted twice since then.

Yes, order from Bob at www.bluecrayfish.com. He sells alleni and immunis, although they are burrowed in for the winter and i don't think he'll have any for sale until the spring. But that will give you time to set up the tank!

[Aquarius0015]

I know popular sentiment leans towards crayfish, but I wanted to add a few parting words on newts. Most species are *not* tropical. For example, the most popularly kept newt, the Chinese Firebelly Newt, should be kept between 58-68*F. This might mean you'd have to buy a chiller to keep the tank temperature consistently below the ambient room temperature (unless you like a very cold house).

For more info on newts, salamanders, frogs, etc, go to Caudata Culture (http://www.caudata.org/cc/index.shtml) (formerly Caudate Central).

[OldVamp]

My blue mole shrimp (Atyopsis Gabonensis) is my favorite aquatic pet. I named him superman because he likes to fly around the tank. And they can be in warmer waters.
http://www.oldvamp.com/fishtank/sm2.jpg

[valerie]

I have never seen the mole shrimp here before, very cool. How big do they get?

[redwing191]

i've had japanese fire bellied(i assume what you guys are calling red bellied),california/western(orange belly)and eastern(green) newts. they were all a blast. none of them were really dumb. they all really cool looking but i think the eastern newts are the best and most beautiful of the 3 if they're given good care. i would just drop in some frozen blood worms/brine shrimp and they would go right for them. never had to clean the toxins off the sides from the fire bellied and i've never heard that it was toxic for them. wouldnt recommend keeping them with fish or crusteceans. they'll eat anything they can fit in their mouths. definetly something different and fun. i would really recomend them. i would get some more but i can only find the fire bellies around here :( and really want the eastern newts. 2 or 3 of the eastern or fire bellies would be happy in a ten(not sure if you can mix species) but i wouldnt say more than 2 california newts in the 10 gal. i really hope you consider them.

[OldVamp]

it was hard to find info on the blue one specifically only this one site with this info:

Enviroment lots of cover
pH 6.5-7.5
Temp. 72-80F
Hardness dH - 10
Min. tank size - 10 gal
Maximum fish size in aquarium - 5"
Origin of specimen - wild
Compatibility - general community
Diet - Omnivore
Reproduces egg layer
intermediate to reproduce in captivity

Purchase size
small medium large x-large
1-2" 2-3" 3-4" 4"+

but there is a little more info on their Scientific name: Atyopsis Gabonensis (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Atyopsis+Gabonensis) but still not alot. They look very similar to bamboo shrimp.

[dethjam316]

Originally posted by OrionGirl
The newts I had were the red bellies, and they are dumber than a post. Without direct feeding--meaning, stick the food right in front of their nose and wait for them to eat it--they tend to forage porrly. The larger, orange bellies are more aggressive and active--they will actively look for food. I have no experience with the greens, but they seem a bit heartier than the red-bellies. oh man, i had the exact same experience. i had to feed them with tweezers. so dumb. how do they survive in the wild? i mean, god, how are they not extinct?