Newbie fighting war on algae - help needed

[Mordred]

So...

I've read a couple of books, talked to the guys in the local fish shop, surfed the web and feel totally swamped by the amount of information out there.

I've just bought and setup my first tank, and I'm not sure what to worry about and what not to.

The tank is a 200 Litre tank. It contains quite a lot of bogwood (which I soaked for a week before putting it in the tank). It is quite heavily planted. I have under gravel heating and some laterite mixed in with the gravel. The tank has 2 light tubes - one of these is a FloraGlo tube for the plants. Have an aerator which is blasting the oxygen bubbles into the filter outlet, and dispersing lots of smal oxygen bubbles. The room the tank is kept in has quite a bit of light, but very little direct sun.

Week 1: Washed gravel and laterite and placed in tank. Filled the tank with tap water, treated to remove chlorine. Started bogwood soaking. Added some bacterial mix filter conditioner to tank.

Week 2: Added bogwood, and plants. Added another dose of bacterial conditioner, and some plant food.

Week 3: Added a couple more plants and some more bacterial conditioner. Added 6 lemon tetras.

During week 4: Tetras seem happy - am feeding them a small pinch twice a day. Algae starts to bloom big time - first see green strands on wood and plants, then brown spots all over tank walls and then on gravel.
Cleaned tank walls with algae scraper.

Did some reading:
Turned lighting off for one day.
Turned off aerator.
Didnt feed fish for one day.
Bloom seemed to slow.
Came home to find 2 tiny snails munching - i did not introduce them - must have come in on the plants - no idea if these are a problem.

Haven't tested the water yet - plan to do so tonight. Bought a basic test kit but it appears to only cover nitrate and ammonia.
No idea of the phosphaste content of the tap water.

If ammonia content is low I was planning to add some Ottocinclus tomorrow to start the algae cleanup,while I try to bring it under control.

Understand that I need to get the plants to the stage where they outcompete the algae but not sure how to do this,

So...would appreciate lots of advice on the next steps, and any answers to the questions below.

Do I keep the aerator off?
Should I use RO water or is this overkill?
What should I test the tap water for, and what should I worry about?
Are snails a problem? Should I evict them?
Is limiting the light a good idea - won't this equally limit the plant growth?
When should I use plant food? Dont want to starve them but dont want to fatten the algae.

How many fish can I keep in a tank this size, and what would go well with lemon tetras (was thinking of ottocinclus and cardinal tetras - what else would work well).

How often should I do a water change?


Thanks in advance.......

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Well, it would be good to get a couple ottos or something that eats the algae. I'm not sure how much 200 litres is..... 15 gal? 20? 30?

If you have a bright room then its not nessecary to have the lights on often. Maybe leave them off all day and turn them on in the evening for a while. Algae is a plant... so feeding the plants will also feed algae. Try not to use liquid fertalizer too often. Feed fish once a day, minimal amount. Fish can go for a while without food and do not need to be fed often unless they are babies. Overfeeding will encourage algae.

If you don't vaccum the gravel around the plants the waste in the gravel will naturally fertalize the plants, as well as the laterite substrate.

The snails might eat your plants but they will also eat decaying matter on the floor of the tank and in the gravel, so they are good. I've always allowed mine to live- with a clown loach just to keep them in check.


so back to algae. i've never had an algae problem in my planted tank even when it had direct sunlight. i had a chinese algae eater for a while until it got too agressive.... but i dont think he did THAT much. although i have lots in my mbuna tank. i think its the lighting. too much light is bad.... you need to find the equilliberium that allows the plants to get enough but not the algae. it all depends on your set up.

patience my friend! wait until your tank settles... just don't use chemical warfare on it... hehe

HTH :)

[125gJoe]

I just posted a link in the plant forum.. I'll post it here too.
It's from Dr. Foster & Smith..

Link: 10 Algae Busting Tips (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=0&siteid=6&acatid=328&aid=714)

[Mordred]

Firstly, thanks for the replies so far - very much appreciated.

Had to do some digging to find out how many gallons:
1 litres = 0.264172051 US gallons - 200 L tank = 52.8 US G
1 litres = 0.219969157 Imperial gallons - 200L tank = 43.99 Imp G

Any thoughts on the aerator - will that be making things worse or should I keep using it?

I have heard that Ottos are not very hardy - are they likely to survive this early in the tank's life?

One other question re: water changes - if you are refilling from tap water (treated to remove chlorine) do you need to let it warm to room temperature before adding it to the tank (our tap water is very cold at this time of year) or is a 10% water change insignificant in terms of impact on tank temperature?

[falcon]

I would warm the water up. If you're tank is at 78F, I would try to match it. If you're using tap water straight to the tank, I would mix hot and cold to come fairly close. If you let it sit in a container overnight, heat it. It also depends on the fish that you keep. Some are more sensitive than others to changes in temperature.

[brookline45]

If your tank is heavily planted then you do not want want to aerate your tank with oxygen (Especially when the lights are on). You actually want some type of CO2 source instead. The O2 aeration will purge CO2 from the water and starve your plants.

[revfred]

It's not unusual to get an algae bloom during cycling. I am not familiar with FloraGro bulbs, but I do know that some of them touted as promoting plant growth also promote algae growth.

On the other hand, knowing your water parameters will help you determine where you are in the cycle. With the test kits you have, if you are getting high nitrate readings, that might explain some of the algae problem. If so, vacuum ("hoover") the bottom thoroughly, and clean the filter, although this early, I doubt if that is a significant problem.

Definitely, leave off the aerator. The ambient light . . . while perhaps not direct sunlight might also contribute to the algae growth. It seems there are a number of factors that may contribute to the excess algae growth.

I might suggest taking and leaving out the carbon . . . I find that carbon material with plants contributes to algae growth, and I only use it when removing medications.

Setting your lights for a 10-12 hour on off cycle is good. Intersperse the "on" times with periods of "lights off". I find that this works better than a straight 12 hours on and 12 hours off as re: algae growth.

A few otto cats and Siamese Algae Eaters (SAE) along with some ghost shrimp make a good algae patrol. Ghost shrimp are inexpensive but effective so if they die they will have died in the line of duty and they will have helped get the algae down to where the cats and SAE's can handle the load.

Careful on water changes this early in the cycle . . . small ones are OK. One more thing ... don't know if you are feeding the plants as yet, but there should be enough nutrients in the substrate for quite awhile.

[OrionGirl]

Moving to Planted Forum. Much advice that is valid for a non-planted tank will not work in a planted tank.

OG

[Mordred]

thanks for all the information everyone :)

I'll let you know how I get on

[plantbrain]

M,
You have Cables, laterite etc, do you add CO2?
If so, what is the pH and the KH(alkalinity)?
These are the main things you will test for.
Call the Tap water supplier for the stat's on the PO4 and the NO3 levels. Their test are most often better even with variations over the testing time peroid cycle.
This way after a water change you know what is and what's not being added.

I think you need to consider this CO2 issue(too add it or not) before you deal with the other issues.

Aeration may help if you don't add CO2, If you do add CO2, stop aeration.

Other question is how much light and what % of the substrate is planted? And are you loctaed in the UK?

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Mordred]

Ok - midway through week 4 now.

The 6 lemon tetras and the 6 cardinals in the tank seem to be very happy.

I've switched off the aerator, am only feeding the fish once a day, and am limiting the lighting to about 12 hours.

Did a water test last Saturday:
Ammonia >0.1mg/L <0.4 mg/L
Nitrite 0.1mg/L
Nitrate 25mg/L
pH 8-8.5
Phosphate <0.25mg/L

Have since added a carbon dioxide generator.
Tested tap water for phosphate <0.25mg/L

So - according to the guides in the test kits all of these seem ok, although the pH is on the upper limit of the "ok" band in the guide book.

The brown algae bloom slowed right down mid last week, but it is still growing strongly on the leaves of some of the plants - seems to be damaging the plants; those with heavy algae on the leaves seem to be suffering; they look quite sick.

Have long "hair-like" algae growing on the bogwood and on many of the plants - still seems to be growing fast, as is some algae on the tank walls.

Have done a 10% water change tonight, and vacuumed the brown algae off the gravel.

Have used a bottle brush to roll up the hair-like algae and lift it off the plants, and have cleaned the tank walls with a mag-float.

The snails are growing and multiplying at an alarming rate. They seem to be eating algae but I think they're also damaging a number of the weaker plants.

Fish shop advised not to put Ottos in until tank 6 weeks old (will be exactly 4 weeks old this saturday).

To your last questions Tom - guess 20-35% of the substrate is planted (approx: bogwood on 30% of it, 40% clear, rest planted). Got 2 lights in the tank - one is the standard aquarium bulb that came with the tank, and the other is a FloraGlo plant light - both on 12 hours a day. A fair amount of daylight in the room, together with a tiny bit of direct sun, for about 20 mins or so mid-morning. And yes, I'm located in the UK (Surrey).

So...at the moment, I'm not 100% sure how much of this is naural during cycling, before the plants really get hold, or how much of this is the first wave of a big problem.

Any further advice very greatly appreciated.

[Mordred]

Tank seems to be settling down, and the brown diatoms are no longer a problem, but I am still having a nightmare with the hair algae growing on the driftwood and the plants.

Most of my plants seem to be settling in and are starting to show signs of strong growth. A few of my plants are just smothered in hair algae, which I am pulling off them every 2-3 days.

Some other plants have a few overgrown leaves, but the new leaves are not yet affected - should I tear off the old leaves?

[Mordred]

In addition to the hair algae, some blue green algae is starting to spread on some of the stones, some of the driftwood and some of the plants.

Should I be more worried about this, or do all the same techniques work to bring the blue green under control.