Setting up new 29 gal.

[Aqualung]

I am in the process of setting up a 29 gal. This is going to be a planted tank. Currently it contains driftwood and rocks, and it's been filled with the filter running for 24 hours now. Substrate is approximately 50% flourite and 50% Estes natural aggregates. The filter is an Aquatech 20-40 and lighting is one 20 watt flourescent tube. I have done some research but still am unclear on a few things.

First question - Will my current lighting be enough for plants with low light requirements (generally speaking)? I almost bought a 25 watt florasun tube but didn't know if it would be much of an improvement.

Second - will my filter be adequate? I plan on removing the carbon filter cartridge and replacing it with a sponge since I've heard carbon absorbs nutrients that the plants need. Is this a good idea?

Third - I can't seem to find much info on cycling with plants. When can I plant (I will have my water tested first of course), and once I do how long do I wait before cycling? I don't like the idea of putting ammonia in the water with my plants, would adding a fish or two be an acceptable alternative?

I apologize if I am asking common questions, but I haven't been able to find the answers on my own. Thanks

[Timmain42]

Lemme lemme!

1. Not likely. At least 2 watts per gallon is recommended, and that's the high end for low-light plants.

2. Yes, and yes. Because....

3. Your plants will be your filter, and cycling won't take long, less than one week (this varies, keep an eye out on your water test results for more accurate measurements). If you have "mulm" from an established tank, this will help this process along.

Also, you might want to read the stickies at the top of this forum, to help you figure out what kind of plants and what kind of fertilizer schedule you want to keep.

[Captain Hook]

I'll try my best to answer your question.

1. 20 watts will grow low light plants. You will want to get as good of 20 watt bulb as you can find. I'm not sure how you were planning on putting a 25 watt bulb in. You must have a 24" fixture, and they only take 20 watt bulbs. I really like Hagen powerglos but they are somewhat expensive. You should be able to grow ambulia (limnophila), crypts, anubias, java moss, java fern, bolbitis, ludwigia repens, anacharis (egeria densa), and maybe others.

2. Not sure, never heard of aquatech 20-40. Do you know what the gallons per hour rating is? Plants do a good job keeping the tank clean so if your tank will have lots of plants you don't need a ton of filtration, unless you want a really heavy amount of fish.

3. Plants quickly absorb ammonia I think so you never really cycle with plants. You can add fish slowly once you have plants in the tank. Try to get alot of plants at the very beginning, the more the better.

[Timmain42]

I love this forum. :)

[Aqualung]

Thanks for the quick responses!

My hood takes a 30" tube so I was thinking a 30" 25 watt tube would work. Or would I need a whole new fixture to increase the wattage? I looked around for different hoods but the only ones I found that would fit my tank are single tube. I was hoping for a twin tube, but I will try to work with what I have.

My filter is a cheap one (came with my Wal-Mart special tank). I can't seem to find a gph rating for it, but I'm hoping it will work out ok since I want to have lots of plants in there.

I have chosen some plants that I would like that seem to have minimal requirements. Crypt wenditi, java fern, a compact sword or two, and some pygmy chain sword are all on my list. Not sure if I'll have enough light for the swords though. I want some other really fast growing low-light species as well, I'm still researching.

I saw some plants at the local store that are called "red krinkle". I can't figure out what they actually are, but I would love some of those if they will grow in my tank. Any idea what species these may be?

[Captain Hook]

I should also add dwarf sag (sagittaria subdulata) to my list of plants you can grow.

The reason I say you can grow those plants is because I'm doing it now! Some people think ludwigia repens is a medium to high light but I am growing it at less than 1 wpg.

I have a 35 gallon (36"x12"x18") tank that only has a 24" 20 watt bulb on it. That bulb is a powerglo, which is why I recommended it. Growth is fairly slow but that also means lower maintenance, like very little fertilizing. You will probably have 1 watt per gallon because your 29 gallon probably has about 25 gallons of water in it.

If you want red I suggest ludwigia repens. Mine has a pretty bright red colour, even tho there isn't much light! Or look for red or brown crypts. I think those are about your only options for red plants.

[Aqualung]

Interesting that you mention the dwarf sag, I was just looking around and decided it might work better for me than the pygmy sword. The ludwigia was one I ruled out because of the recommended light requirements. Good to hear that it can grow well in low light.

Right now here's my plant list:

Crypt Wenditi (red or bronze)
Dwarf Sag
Java fern (planted on driftwood and rocks)
Ludwigia Repens

I would really like a sword or two - I was thinking either Rangeri or Compact Amazon. Would either one of these grow in low light or would this not be an option?

[Captain Hook]

I'm not sure, I've heard swords need quite a bit of light. Make sure you choose a variety that won't take up a lot of room, because many amazon swords will take over your tank. I know ech. parviflorus stays nice and small so that could be an option.

Everything you have so far looks like good choices. Also try to get some hygrophila polysperma. Hygro grows quick and it will do fine in your low light. It will help to absorb nutrients at the beginning and help fight algae.

[Aqualung]

I might just skip the swords and add some Hygro. I love the looks of the sunset Hygro but it seems it requires higher light levels than the green variety. Would the sunset be able to grow at all in less than 1 watt/gal. ?

[Captain Hook]

Not sure. I think it would grow fine but probably would have no pink, just all green. I recently got a few stems of this but it is in a higher light tank. It would probably grow but not sure.

[Aqualung]

I did some looking online and found a couple of fixtures that would work to increase my light, but it's over $100 for a single tube fixture and over $200 for the twin. 65 and 130 watts, respectively.

Too much $$ for me to put into lights right now, since I am trying to save up for a 75 gal. which will be my main tank. So I plan to stick with the single 20 watt flouro and see how that goes. Can anyone tell me if it's worth the $12 or so for the 25 watt Florasun tube? If so I'll buy it!

Tomorrow I plan to buy a few plants, some seachem ferts, and I will buy the new tube if it will help.

[Aqualung]

I spent yesterday planting my tank. I went to all the local stores and found some Java fern, Green Hygro, and Ludwigia. I couldn't find any red crypt Wenditi or dwarf sag, so I decided to take a chance. I bought two clumps each of the "red krinkle" and some stuff called "cherry hedge". I still can't figure out what they actually are. Maybe I'll get lucky and they will thrive.....I hope so anyway.

I looked at the fertilizers available and there wasn't much of a selection. All they had for liquid ferts is some stuff called Plantgro. Will this be good to use for now, at least until I can get what I need through mail order?

[happychem]

Aqualung,
If you want more light over your tank, go to your local hardware store. You can pick up a double 36" NO fixture for about $20-$30. Then find a local hydroponics store, you should be able to find some reflective Mylar for a reflector for a few dollars.

[Aqualung]

I actually do have a shop light that takes two 40 watt flouros. It's 4 feet long though, way too long to put over the tank. There would really be no way to hang it, either. If I could set it up somehow behind the tank and leave it on for a few hours each day to supplement the light from my hood, would that help? Or would lighting the tank from behind make the plants lean towards the back?

[happychem]

I would imagine that the plants would lean towards the back if you did that.

I've got a 4 foot fixture over my 33g, so there's overhang of about 6" on each side. It's just aesthetics and it actually doesn't look that bad, I spray painted it black so it actually looks pretty sharp. But hey, that's just me. It's really cheap to buy 2ft fixtures as well, so you can easily add more light without spending too much.

On the other hand Hook's given you some really good advice for a low light setup, so why not just start there and if you see that you're having trouble with enough light, then worry about making a trip to the hardware store.

[Aqualung]

Thanks happychem, I think I'll see how it goes for now with my low light. If need be, I'll look into doing a cheap upgrade of some sort.

Some bad news - I found out what my "cherry hedge" is. It's called Alternanthera ficoidea and it's not even a true aquarium plant:( It seems I may as well take it out since it will just die and rot. What a shame, it looks quite nice too!

Now I'm REALLY wondering what the "Red Krinkle" is.......I'm suspicious of whether or not this is an actual aquatic plant:mad:

I knew I was taking a chance, but never thought they'd sell me something that has no chance of surviving to begin with! In the future I will be 100% sure of what I am buying before I spend $$ on it. Lesson learned!

[Aqualung]

I just ripped out my cherry hedge, except one little bunch that I will end up pulling soon. Such a shame, it really looked nice too!

When I bought my plants I had them test my water. They told me my ammonia and nitrite levels were too high and that I should do a water change. I thought it was odd, since I had only filled the tank recently and there still aren't any fish in there. They also told me my ph was way too high and they tried to sell me some ph down.

After a day of wondering why I have ammonia in my water and what kind of fish I will be able to keep in such a high ph, I decided to try out my Freshwater Test kit.

Guess what? My readings were totally different from what they told me!

Ammonia = 0
Ph = 7.2

I will test for hardness tomorrow and see where that's at.

I didn't have much faith in that store to begin with, but now I have zero! I don't think they'll be seeing any more of my business
:mad:

[happychem]

Is there any way that you can grow those plants in pots or something? Then maybe all is not lost...:)

Also, why worry about ammonia and nitrite until you're starting to think about fish? Plants take up ammonia as their preffered source of nitrogen. Sure, they'll eat nitrate too, but then they spend energy ripping off the oxygen. It is possible that you did have an appreciable amount of ammonia in your tank to start with but then added the plants who quickly absorbed it.

Regardless, I'm with you, I wouldn't return to an LFS that sold me fake aquarium plants if I had the choice. IMO it shows a lack of knowledge and commitment to customer satisfaction.:mad:

[Aqualung]

Yeah I think I'll try to grow them in pots so that it won't become a complete waste of $$.

It's not that I'm worried about ammonia at the moment, I was just curious as to why I would have any ammonia readings at all. I suppose it's possible there was some ammonia before I put the plants in there (would it have been present in the flourite/gravel or the rocks and driftwood)? Anyhow, no big deal there and I'm happy to know my ph isn't too high.

I'm going to test my hardness soon.........is hardness something that will fluctuate and should be monitored, or will it stay pretty much the same without any drastic changes to the tank?

Back when I had a 20 and a 10 gal. (over 10 years ago), I would check my ph and ammonia levels and that was it.......never tested for nitrites, hardness, etc. I tried planting my 20 gal. by just sticking the plants in the gravel. Most plants died pretty quickly, except for some val. and if I remember right my sword was pretty hardy.

Now I'm trying to do it right, and have a tank I'll be proud of:D
I appreciate all the help, thanks!