Cycling with ammonia

[NJ Devils Fan]

I read the tom griffin article, and I understand what to do, but I don't know how to measure the amount of drops of ammonia because I have it in a bottle. Is there is certain amount of drops that are in a teaspoon, so that if I fill one, I know how many more I have to add?

[Tyler718]

If I remember correctly is that you just got a 72gal bowfront. What I did with the last two times I did fishless (60 & 150) was that I added 2 tablespoon and then retested the water. After that added 1 tablespoon at a time and retested. I did this till I got the water to peak at 5 ppm. The 150 I put 2 tablespoons at a time.

Once I added up all the tablespoons that I used. I used this amount to add to the tank once the nitrItes started showing up.

I hope this helps some.:)

[NJ Devils Fan]

What does it mean when the Nitrates/Nitrites peak? Does it mean that there is a reading of them when you test?

[Sumpin'fishy]

I personally use some older test tube droppers that came with my Red Sea Test kits. Most kits come with some type of liquid dispenser/measurer. Use these to find out exactly how much you are adding. I personally had to add 3mL of Clear Ammonia to my 10 gal tank to get 5ppm. I would wait till ammonia dropped to 0 and re-dose same amount till nitrites started rising. I then dropped to 2mL when ammo reached 0, which turned out to be every day really quick. When ammo and nitrite were 0. I did 2 90% water changes and added my water and fish. I then started turning on my lights too. :) It took right at about 3 weeks total.

[Tyler718]

Originally posted by NJ Devils Fan
What does it mean when the Nitrates/Nitrites peak? Does it mean that there is a reading of them when you test?

What I do is, when my ammonia levels is constantly reading zero after 18-24 hours of adding ammonia. That is what I consider the peak of nitrItes.

I then keep adding ammonia until the nitrItes are reading zero after 18-24 hours.

Once I get a zero reading on both, I do a 90% water change and add the same amount that gave me a 5 ppm reading. Then retest after 12 hours. (They should be at zero.) This is to insure that the tank is fully cycled. If they are both at zero I do another 90% water change.

I then go by the stocking that I want to put in the tank.:) The best part.

[NJ Devils Fan]

I think I understand now. I just keep adding ammonia until my test reads 5ppm. Then, the next day, add the same ammount, and so on until I detect nitrites, then add half the amount of ammonia until I test and find nothing. How long after I add ammonia to the tank should I check the first time, like a few minutes or an hour?

[jafo]

Actually you keep adding that same amount until you have a nitrite reading of 5ppm. Then cut that amount by half and add that everyday until the nitrites read 0. Then it's cycled.

[superstein61]

OK, I am also in the process of cycling my 72 gallon - and I am pretty sure I understood the concept - but some of the comments here may be confusing. let me make it sure I have it right - and hopefully it will help NJ Devils Fan as well as others.

I started by adding 3 teaspoons of Ammonia - then did a test and rec'd a reading of 1 PPM. So I ultimately added 12 more teaspoons and reached me desired test result of 5 ppm. (Thus in my tank with the ammonia I am using, it takes 15 teaspoons to go from zero to 5 ppm and thus adding 3 teaspoon increments should raise the levels 1 ppm each increment).

After 24 hours, I tested and my ammonia reading was now showing 4 ppm. Thus I added another 3 teaspoons to get back to 5 ppm. I DID NOT add the whole 15 teaspoons again - as that would put my ammonia off the charts.

Day 3 - same thing - test after 24 hours - get another reading of 4 ppm - so add another 3 teaspoons to get back to 5 ppm.

and so on.

I think the thing I want to clarify (unless I have it wrong) is that on each subsequent day - you do not want to add the full amount of ammonia it took to go from zero to 5ppm. Rather you want to add the amount of ammonia necessary to take you from your current reading back to 5ppm. Correct? or have I misinterpreted something.

reading some responses - it seems like they say to add the same amount of ammonia daily it took to get to 5 ppm from zero - But that should only be the case if your current ammonia reading is zero I believe

[Richer]

In a nutshell, when doing a fishless cycle:
Keep ammonia levels at 5ppm at all times.

I don't see the logic in cutting ammonia dosing to half levels when you are midway through the fishless cycle. I've kept my levels at a constant 5ppm all the time with no ill effects. If anything, its more benefitual to keep your ammonia levels at a constant 5ppm (rather than 2.5ppm midway through the cycle). Using a constant ammonia concentration of 5ppm from the beginning of the cycle till the end only means your biofiltration can handle a much larger bioload than a filter which finished cycling on 2.5ppm of ammonia. Of course, it would take quite a bit of fish to crash a filter finish at 2.5ppm of ammonia, but imho, keeping an ammonia concentration of 5ppm is a good precaution.

HTH
-Richer

[carpguy]

Superstein, yes it was getting a little confusing.

Your nutshell rendition is exactly how I understood it and how I did mine. Eventually you'll hit day X where your getting back to having to add a lot to stay at 5ppm and nitrites are starting to head up. The original regimen recommends halving the ammonia dose at this point. My understanding of it was that the Nitrite-eaters didn't thrive in such a high ammonia enviroment, so the reduced dosage was for their benefit. Some folks also suggested reseeding at this point if you had access to seed gravel as the orginal Nitrite-eaters may have suffered harm from the high ammonia and/or starved while waiting for sufficiently high nitrite levels to develop.

Richer has stayed up at 5ppm without ill-effects, so it seems to be a viable option. Maybe it adds a day or two. He has a point about the larger colonies. Maybe dropping to half as the nitrites get started and then slowly moving back towards the original dosage, an extra teaspoon a day, would give you the best of both (or maybe I'm just complicating it unnecessarily :D) .

Good luck.

[redwing]

I agree with Richer. Keep adding same amount. Went through this during the summer and here are a few pointers . Since Amm. comes in different strengths I used a measuring cup and marked the side so I didn't have to measure each day. Test, test, test! Start testing about an hour or two after adding Amm. This will also give you something to do while anxiously waiting!:) I also decorated my tank while cycling. IMHO once you've gone through fishless cycling you have a much better understanding of the chemical and biological workings of your aquarium.

[wetmanNY]

For those lurkers following this thread, but finding that the technique of fishless cycling is obscure to pick up just from forum posts---

Chris Nomad Cow refined and popularized the technique of using a solution of ammonia (plain ammonium hydroxide, if you can get it) to prime the bacterial nitrifying processes that metabolize ammonia to harmless nitrate in aquariums. You can brush up by re-reading his articles at http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycling.html and a lightly revised version at http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html

(I know you folks posting have read these.)

[Sumpin'fishy]

To give an explanation of why I said what I did: I personally cut the dose to half after nitrites peaked because I was only adding one 2" (without tail) fish. There is nothing wrong with adding full amount (initial dose) until completed cycling. Yes, it's SAFER to have a HUGE bio filter setup. I simply did not need it, and I really dought any tank that is even fully stocked will need more than what I had. I believe you can fully stock (safe stocking levels) a tank with my procedure, and by doing 5ppm the whole time you are actually going to have your bio filter die off for the next few weeks to get to where it is balanced. If you plan a malawi tank setup or another commonly "overstocked" tank setup, I suggest doing the same dosage the whole time.

Another point. What need is there to add ammonia if the level hasn't reached zero yet? You aren't hurting anything, but I see alot of wasted energy by adding small amounts of ammonia daily, unless the bacteria have no food. I dose, then wait for it to zero-out, then redose again. This way you know exactly how much to add when it zero's out (the same initial dosage). If you go from 5ppm to about 3ppm, you have to try to figure out how much to add. This isn't going to grow your colony any quicker. If there is food---they eat it! plain and simple. Keeping it at 5ppm is unecessary, until they are depleating it daily. You may start out (like I did) not having to add ammonia again until the 5th day or so, then again on the 7th day, etc. Eventually it will be every day, but take it easy until it's necessary. I'm not saying my way is any better than anyone else's, just that my way takes less effort and gets the same results.;) Adding ammonia every day is ok though, if you like that way.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Sumpin'fishy, how long does it usually take you to cycle a tank?

[superstein61]

OK, thanks all - you have cleared up my confusion

[jafo]

I cut my ammonia additions in half when the nitrites spike with this in mind. It would take a massive stock load to for a tank cycled for 2.5 ppm nitrites to overload the bio-filter. I'm bad for overstocking and I've overstocked tanks that were fishless cycled on the day they finished. I've yet to see any ammonia or nitrite readings afterwards.

NJ Devils Fan: For me, it has taken 10-14 days to cycle using seeded materials (gravel, decor, filter drippings, etc.) and 3-4 weeks without.

[Sumpin'fishy]

It took me right at 21 days without any seeding of bacteria. Just added water and ammonia:) BTW, this was for a 10 gallon tank. I once overloaded ammonia, and it took longer for the cycle to work, think it's an undesirable place to live if there is too much ammonia! No scientific basis for that assumption though.:p

[clownfish]

Off topic (sorry), but NJ Fan, I must say, I love that movie clip in your signature. lol I'm a Leafs fan to the core but Brodeur was our gold winning goalie so I'm happy for him. lol, that's hilarious! :D