Nitro Zorb

[damion]

Is it possible to have a tank w/out any substrate/gravel and still have a healthy environment?
Anyone ever use Nitro Zorb? Ater trying Ammo Carb, Amquel it was suggested because the ammonia was still high

[beviking]

Yes you can have a tank w/o gravel/substrate and still have a healthy environment. Is there a specific question you had as to why the gravel/substrate is necessary?

Only use Ammo-something. It was zeolite (which removes ammonia). I used it b4 I had test kits while starting a new tank. I know that's not much help though.

[damion]

I wuz told that the gravel was necessary for bacterial growth 4 the tank. That the lack of bacterial might b the cause of the ammonia spike.

[OrionGirl]

You do need to supply a media for the bacteria to grow on, but most power filters are adequate to the job. Obviously, running an under gravel filter without any gravel means you don't have a filter, just some mild water movement.

Some of the chemical filters are decent to use in emergencies, but I do not think they should be relied on exclusively for ammonia/nitrite removal.

[RTR]

Gravel/sand or any other substrate is not at all necessary to have a cycled tank. There is a long history of bare tanks for breeding and fry raising, or just for simplified maintenance. I have a number going right now - all with fully competent biofilters.

Statements to the contrary reveal more lack of information and understanding than fact.

[damion]

I like having a bare tank due to ease of cleaning but understand the bacteria needs a "foundation". Just got some type of liquid that is supposed to add bacteria in the tank that was advised by lfs. Guess I'll have to get a canister filter to replace the Emperor 400 that will provide sufficient bacteria for the tank.
Thanks

[RTR]

There is no liquid that will provide attachment for nitrification bacteria. They require a "solid" substrate for attachment, but sponges etc. in the filter will serve nicely.

[damion]

There is no liquid that will provide attachment for nitrification bacteria.
That's why it was recommended that I keep some substrate/gravel in the tank.

Just got some type of liquid that is supposed to add bacteria in the tank that was advised by lfs.

Know anything about Microbe-lift special blend?

[RTR]

Do you have a filter or filters? Filters are optimum locations for nitrification bacteria as they have constant flow (bringing oxygen and nutrients to the bacteria) and plenty of surface area for bacterial colonization.

Gravel as biofilter substrate is required only with UG/RFUG. Otherwise it is an aesthetic choice to provide a more "natural" appearing environment for the fish, or for anchoring and as a nutrient reservoir for rooted plants.

[TKOS]

Bacteria will cling to every surface. So it attaches to the walls, decorations etc...

The main concern you will have is that you not change out the filter cartidge during tank cleanings. Just rinse it out in old tank water. Normally if people change out their filter cart. there is sufficient bacterial growth elsewhere int he tank to help avoid any spikes.

You should be fine. But I also agree that the bacteria in a bottle stuff is mostly a waste of money. I would not purchase it in the future. A healthy tank will have all the bacteria it needs.

[daveedka]

I'll have to get a canister filter to replace the Emperor 400 that will provide sufficient bacteria for the tank.


An emporer 400 is a very good filter, not the best that money can buy, but quite competent. The biowheels provide a graet srface for bacteria, if you put regular filter floss in place of the cartridges, and/or put sponges in the secondary media containers, you will have great bio-filtration, just don't replace large quantities of media all at once (as was said) you will want to preserve the largest part of you media when you do maintenance. A 400 Emporer is great for this because of the dual media wells and dual bio-wheels, you can replace small sections of media very easily, and aloow the bacteria colony to grow an the new stuff while leaving estabilished bacteria in many other places in the filter.
Something else you can do is find a sponge and cut it to fit over the intake. this will add additional bio-and mechanical and help the media in your filter last longer. The one thing I don't see listed is tank size and bio-load, the concepts involved remain the same, but quantities of water waste etc. obviously have an effect on what you need. If you are running a 75 with 4 oscars on one emporer 400 and no substrate you will need another filter. If you are running a 46g with 4 tetra's no problem.

I have no experience with canisters myself, but from what I have been told they are great. I just wouldn't reccomend spending money on a canister if you already own an Emporer

[damion]

I have driftwood and caves in the tank. I think I changed both the emporer cartridges along with both media containers at once. That's what spiked the ammonia. I usually change one or the other. The soft water pillow plus crush coral seemed to have brought my ph to 6.8 and the ammonia is 0. All I have to do is clear up the tank. Used Accu Clear which normally is transparent but now when I add it to the tank, it turns milky white. Any ideas?

[OrionGirl]

If the cloudiness is the result of a bacterial bloom (seems likely), a bit of patience is probably your best route. The bacteria will get back into balance with their food source, and go away. A few additional water changes shouldn't hurt--but sometimes, it just refreshes the food source, so be cautious.

[damion]

Thanks Oriongirl, however I had bacterial bloom during the summer. When I added water clarifier into the tank it never turned milky white as it does now. Any ideas?

[SBA]

does the water clear after it goes milky white?

some 'water-clearers' make the water cloudy when added but then clear over a couple of hours.

i might be wrong but i think the cloudiness is caused by particles suspended in the water that attach themselves to other small particles in the water and form relatively large 'clumps'. these are then removed by your filtration resulting in apparently clearer water.

you shouldn't need water clearer if you do regular water changes and have a mature filter, so maybe hold off on it for a bit and see if your water clears as the tank matures.

HTH

[damion]

Had the tank and filter for approx 1 yr now so maturity shouldn't be the issue. My water was crystal clear last two months but then with ammonia spike and ph drop, the water became very cloudy.
Had similar experience of cloudy water in the past and water clarifiers didn't turn milky white when added.

[SBA]

if i'm understanding correctly, you replaced all the filter media in one go, and you have no gravel in the tank?

if that's correct then regardless of how long your tank has been full of water its still (re)cycling. there is a shortage of bacteria in the tank to deal with the current production of ammonia (and thus nitrite). hence the positive ammonia readings. ammonia should never test positive in a mature, healthy tank.

and this could be why you are struggling to keep the water clear.

in answer to your question, i don't know why the water clearer goes milky now but didn't used to. sorry if this sounds obvious, but is it exactly the same product?