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View Full Version : Baby euthanization, what to do.



Nepherael
06-12-2012, 10:15 AM
My girlfriend and I have been raising fry for over a month. We have about 20 2-3 week old Molly babies and I want some opinion on what to do in this situation.

We have a baby that sits at the bottom and has since it was born. It has energy but it seems to be deformed somehow. When it swims it usually swims in a circular motion and it seems to have a curved body (like if you're looking at it from the top it looks like a C but not quite that pronounced) and can't really get anywhere. The circular swimming looks like it s swimming in a corkscrew pattern as it swims up.

I don't know what to do about it. It is surviving but probably only on whatever food floats down by it. It also seems to have energy though too and will swim, just doesn't swim right and not for very long when it does.

I don't even know if this baby will survive to adulthood and I want your opinions on what to do and maybe some other stuff. Do I euthanize it? Do I let it love as long as possible until it dies itself (that's what I wanted to do but I don't know if I'm letting it suffer)?

I've read about breeders having to put babes down all the time and it upsets me but if a baby will die anyway and/or suffer I'm willing to do it. I just won't do it without being told it is okay.

And last thing, where is the line you draw for this? I have another baby that is close to the same as the guy I'm describing but doesn't swim weird, just sits at the bottom and doesn't seem to be able to accomplish much like the other guy.

Hope someone can help me out with what to do here. It's a sad subject but I can't figure out the right way to go about it. I keep thinking that I should just let it go and maybe it can be a functional (if weird) adult but I also am worried about suffering and then I think if I put it down then what if it would have been able to do ok as an adult.

Zevyn
06-12-2012, 10:34 AM
I had a runt Angelfish in a bag with 4 larger ones lose one of his ventral fins and the other one bent completely back. It was probably crushed into the corner by the others. He couldn't swim very well but ate food if it floated past him (attempts to hand feed failed, since he was scared). I planned to let him get a run at life as long as he was eating, but it progressed to him sitting on the bottom of the tank, probably due to tiring out from having to use his other fins more to keep level. Eventually he curled into a C shape and was breathing heavy, so I culled him in a cup of ice water. Felt terrible about it.

If yours is eating and can get around, then I'd say give it more time. In my case mine was just sitting in one spot unable to move much at all and I could see it getting worse as time went by.

Nepherael
06-12-2012, 10:41 AM
Ok, then just basically use my judgement. That helps a lot actually. I figured the answer was to wait it out and if I can tell it is going bad then handle it accordingly but it helps to have someone validate it for me =)

bradlgt21
06-12-2012, 11:26 AM
I agree it is completely the owners opinion. You don't want them to suffer but it's hard to draw that line.

When the time does come I would suggest what zevyn did. This is how I put my fish down. Take water put it in a container put it in your freezer until ice forms over the top break the ice to expose the water below. Pretty much get the water as cold as possible without making it solid ice. Then take the fish quickly from the tank into the ice water. The change from a tank near 80 to near 32 will instantly put them into shock and stop there heart.

Nepherael
06-12-2012, 11:57 AM
That's an interesting way to do it. I had heard of a couple different ways but when I read other threads almost everyone suggested blunt force trauma (basically drop a brick on it). If needed I will do it the way you guys suggested.

I'm glad you guys are understanding and I have a place to come for questions like this.

XanAvaloni
06-12-2012, 12:20 PM
Neph, if the question continues to torment you remember that in nature this problem does not occur. A defective offspring becomes lunch (or at least a snack) for another member of the food chain, along with 99% of the perfectly healthy offspring. That's why they have so many in the first place.

we breed for colors, or shapes, or fanciful finnage or whatever. Nature breeds for speed and luck. :)

dbosman
06-12-2012, 12:40 PM
A container of ice water is a lot more humane than blunt force trauma, that might not actually finish the job.

rufioman
06-12-2012, 1:05 PM
If it gets to that point then frozen water is the easiest way to do it. I had a fish get caught in a filter intake and it only took a few seconds in the icy water to take it out. Also...I've had a von rio tetra that is malformed and strange looking from a fry that is still the boss in my 100g :)

:cheers:

Ptrick125
06-12-2012, 1:07 PM
Maybe boiling water, but I've never tried that...

When I saw the thread's title I thought you meant human babies... Next time you should probably use the word Fry...


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Nepherael
06-12-2012, 1:47 PM
Maybe boiling water, but I've never tried that...

When I saw the thread's title I thought you meant human babies... Next time you should probably use the word Fry...


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LMFAO I don't think I would be posting that in the freshwater section of a fish forum bud XD

Also boiling water would be so much more painful then going into shock from cold water which puts you out faster. If I had to choose I would choose hypothermia over being boiled to death any day

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Nepherael
06-12-2012, 1:51 PM
Neph, if the question continues to torment you remember that in nature this problem does not occur. A defective offspring becomes lunch (or at least a snack) for another member of the food chain, along with 99% of the perfectly healthy offspring. That's why they have so many in the first place.

we breed for colors, or shapes, or fanciful finnage or whatever. Nature breeds for speed and luck. :)

Very well said and I'm right there with ya. It helps to understand and remember the circle of life in the wild sometimes. I'm still gonna give all my weird guys a chance but it helps to think about and know that they wouldn't have lived regardless of anything in the wild

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Nepherael
06-12-2012, 1:58 PM
Also...I've had a von rio tetra that is malformed and strange looking from a fry that is still the boss in my 100g :)

:cheers:

Which is awesome and definitely why I'm glad my thoughts on waiting it out until necessary were confirmed here. Ya never know what a cool little dude they're going to be if you don't give em a chance to fight it out at first. Can end up with some very character filled fish and sometimes an even deeper bond.

In fact, my girlfriend and I have been really keeping track of the little weird swimmer (thats what made me make this topic, I thought he had died but when I went to get him he was alive and kicking. It's hard to tell when they're still too small to get a good look at if their gills and side fins are moving) and I don't want to sell him to a LFS where he may never get bought so if he toughs it out I'm gonna give him a permanent home in my girlfriends livebearer community 55 when it is set up =)

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Rbishop
06-12-2012, 4:12 PM
All of us need to stop assigning human emotions/feelings to our fish.....last time I checked, none of them could communicate the idea to us....fry to go bye-bye..they be lunch for another fish as in nature, unless diseased then a quick knife and flush.....

Jumko
06-12-2012, 5:22 PM
What do you plan on doing with it once it gets old enough to breed? Are you prepared to keep it separated from the other mollies? The last thing you want is your deformed molly breeding and creating more deformed fish in the future, even if you don't plan on selling them/giving them away.


Also, word of caution for those of you who use the cup of ice euthanasia method - place the cup in your freezer and keep it there till the water does in fact freeze. I say this b/c I had a beat up golden gourami that I decided to place in a cup with ice cubes + water. Half an hour later he LOOKED dead. No signs of life, no gill movement whatsoever. Then I threw his body in a bucket of old tank water from a recent water change that I was too lazy to dump out. Next day as I'm ready to dump the bucket down the toilet, what do I see? THE GOURAMI'S STILL ALIVE AND SWIMMING.

The point is, I was horrified to think of how many fish I've "euthanized" in the past and flushed down the toilet, might have actually still been alive.

Nepherael
06-12-2012, 5:34 PM
I hadn't thought about that. Hmm I guess I'll have to tackle that down the road here but I'm sure I can figure something out. You're right that the last I would want is him/her to breed and I don't think I would separate him so maybe that lends more credence into why breeders cull their stock.

psyche
06-12-2012, 5:45 PM
As a tropical fish, a good method is netting and placing directly into ice slurry--cold shock knocks them out. Then you can freeze or otherwise kill.

Personally I use an overdose of Finquel, an anesthetic. But it is getting harder to get hold of.

Rbishop
06-12-2012, 6:00 PM
Nothing like an Oscar tank for limiting bad genetics and keeping the price up......

Nepherael
06-12-2012, 6:51 PM
Nothing like an Oscar tank for limiting bad genetics and keeping the price up......

If you mean for feeding then I agree. I would rather feed a fry to something then just kill it (obviously not if it is diseased) but I'm not sure what you mean by keeping the price up?

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Rbishop
06-12-2012, 6:53 PM
limiting volume...looking for color only...low supply..high demand..higher price