Read this before using the inch/gallon "rule"

[Richer]

Lately, I've been seeing a few people using the inch/gallon rule when it comes to stocking fish. This "rule" is a myth. I don't know how it came about, but this "rule" is no where near acurate when it comes to stocking a real life aquarium.

Think of it this way... if the inch/gallon rule was true... then I would be able to stock 6 fully grown convict cichlids in a 30 gallon tank, and they should all be happy. Is this true? Not even close. In reality, putting only two fully grown convicts in a 30 gallon tank would be pushing the tank's limits.

Why do you ask? There are a few things to consider when stocking a tank:
1.) Fish behaviour. Not just their everyday behaviour either. You need to consider how the fish acts when it eats. How it acts if it breeds. How it reacts to its environment (ie. planted tank vs. non-plant tank). You also need to consider how the fish will react to other fish you might be into the tank (ie. putting fish that nip fins with fish that have long fins). Whether the fish is an active swimmer or not also comes into play.
2.) Fish diet. Fish don't all eat the same things. Some fish require higher amounts of protein in their diet, while others cannot have much protein at all. The list goes on, but you need to insure that either you can feed the individual species of fish correctly, or that the diet of all the fish in the tank are compatible.
3.) Fish size. Yes, fish size is important as the inch/gallon rule suggests. However, what the inch/gallon forgets to mention is that fish are 3 dimensional creatures. There are more to fish than just their length. One inch of neon tetras cannot be compared to once inch of a convict cichlid.
4.) You also need to put into consideration what kind of filtration you have running. Generally, tanks with a higher stock of fish will have more filtration, compared to one with less fish.
5.) Tank shape. You also need to consider the surface area of your tank. Generally, its better to have a longer and wider tank, compared to a deeper tank.

There are many variables when it comes to deciding what to stock your tank with. Clearly, the inch/gallon rule is flawed in more than one way. The only way to really know whether or not your planned stocking will work is to do some work yourself. Research like crazy, and afterwards, ask questions.

-Richer

[RTR]

Good post, Richer.

[aquariumfishguy]

V good. I bookmarked it for future reference if you don't mind. :D

[daveedka]

Thanks Richer, It's so hard sometimes to get people to understand what it really takes to keep comfortable fish. Especially when they have the inch per gallon rule beat in to their head by so many books and LFS's

[roliva]

Here is an interesting article about tank size for fish:

http://malawicichlids.com/mw01019.htm

[WildFrisco]

Yeah I definitely agree with your disagreement of the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule. There is another factor that can complicate things. Fish metabolism. Some fish are like living playdoh poop factories. This fancy swordtail I picked up excretes more than my 3 guppies and 1 beta combined. If I used that rule of thumb for swordtails I'd be changing the water in my tank everyday or every other day.

Know where it came from? I've seen it in many older and some newer fish books. The info in most of the books are narrow and outdated anyway.

[TKOS]

Perhaps it should be called the neon tetra rule as that is one of the only fish that can possible use it.

Good post.

[mickeymacleod]

Awesome post. I really wish I had been told this before I started collecting fish, I'm sure my goldfish wish the same thing. :)

[RobUK]

It must have came about many many ears ago when all you could get hold of was neons LOL :)

[hcgirl80]

I Always Heard That The 'Inch/gallon' Rule Was Only True till The fish got over 3'', Then It Got Different.

But Hey, I'm Just A Newbie ;)

[tpl*co]

Recommendations I've read for tetras (larger ones, not just neons). They have a small minimum tank size, say 15-20 gallons, and then say get at least 6!

I wonder, if you do have good filtration since tetra's are highly community schooling fish, that you can put more in a tank as long as the water is kept up (and the fish have room to swim, LOL). I have 5 elreys and 6 yellow tail congos in my 46-48 gallon tank with my other fish, and they all move in unison! (they are completely happy. In fact when I had less they were more stressed and nervous and hid. Now I agree having a type of fish with an attitude and anti social behavior would probably be less fish in there.

[aquariumfishguy]

Originally posted by hcgirl80
I Always Heard That The 'Inch/gallon' Rule Was Only True till The fish got over 3'', Then It Got Different.

No, that is yet another modification to the myth. It has much more to do with the width of the fish, and the overall mass of the fish. For very slim bodied fish such as Neon’s or other Tetra species similar, the one inch per gallon "rule" usually works... provided you start with a 10-15 gallon aquarium.

However, it’s much safer to look up the individual specie than to assume they fall under a categorical placement of "___ inches per gallon", as it is usually much more complex than that.

[tpl*co]

Mine are high bodied, but slim otherwise as volumes go. I wonder if the inch per gallon would apply?

[Faramir]

I'm not sure how relevant the metabolism of the fish is. The total ammonia produced can only equal the total nitrogen of the food you put in there. It doesn't really matter whether that nitrogen has been processed by a swordtail or an angelfish - or just by the rotting of uneaten food; neither can actually manufacture nitrogen atoms, so neither can actually "create" waste as if out of thin air.

I seem to find people quoting this rule a lot. I suppose it's nice and easy - but what's the point of being easy and wrong?

I disagree that it's the "neon tetra rule" - I suspect you could easily double or even treble it with neons. To my mind, it works for fish at about two inches. If they're normal fished shape. And they aren't aggressive. And they don't have special needs. And... and... and.... ;)

[jamzwayne]

Well, I personally wouldnt want too many fish in my tank. I like a calm, quiet, peaceful looking setting. Too many fish make the tank look "busy". To me, thats not peaceful. IMO

As far as the 'Inch/gallon' Rule....It doesnt make since to me, because you can only guess at the size your fish may grow.

When you start your tank with an Oscar in a 10 gallon all by himself, he will or should be fine until he grows up and becomes a big boy. - Am I right on this?

[roliva]

Some people say that if the fish is too big to turn around, then it's time to get a bigger tank, as in the 10 gallon situation. I however would not start an oscar in a 10 gallon tank, the growth rate is very fast and being confined to such a small space, the growth would be stunted before you even know it.

[jamzwayne]

I was using the Oscar in a 10 GAL as an example, but you know what I mean, right?

[OrionGirl]

Still not accurate. If you make frequent, large water changes on that 10, then yes, the oscar should grow sizable, without major problems--but will still need to be upgraded, and likely long before it's size hampers movement. The problem is that all growing fish produce hormones. These hormones work in many ways--in nature, they work to suppress the growth of other fish, minimizing the competetion for food. The largest, most successful fry produce more hormones than weaker fry--resulting in more food for the larger fish. In a tank, these hormones are still produced, but can't diffuse as easily as they do in a lake or river. The result--a single fish can produce enough hormone in a small tank to stunt it's own growth.

[mechanic]

The perfect example of why the inch/gallon rule dosen't work.
"You mean to tell me my 14" Oscar isn't doing fine in his 15 gallon tank?" :laugh:
later
E

[gonefishin]

I've heard the inch per gallon rule used as CUBIC inches of fish per gallon. We know that mass increses exponentially with an increase in length. that is to say (using a perfectly cubic fish) a 1"x1"x1" is 1" cubed an would need 1 gallon of water. a 2"x2"x2" fish would need 8 gallons of watter etc. I have a one gallon tank for feeders and i use the rule quite often for this. usually 10 small goldies or 30-40 guppies look like about 1 cubic inch and willl do fine in that tank. I think if we look at the rule again at its origin (which i've yet to find here) rather than its assumed meaning we will find it's more accurate than stated above. This is not to say the rule is law, it's a general estamate and of course some species are exempt(every rule was meant to be broken).

[roliva]

That 'cubic' theory is very interesting. Although it may be a little difficult to estimate the cubic inch of fish since the geometry is not symmetric.

[gonefishin]

I cut class the day they told us "the formula for the mass of a fish". I'd figure in my head 60-80ci for a healthy oscar of 14 inches which is about what you see here for recomended tank size. I'd love for someone to measure thier fish (using the displacement method) and find out for sure. I don't have any large fish to try it on(I think at least 10" long would be easier to get a good estamate). Fill a container FULL with water and put it in an empty, larger container. Put the test fish in the water then measure how much water spills out.

[tpl*co]

My tetras seem to feel (the more the merrier) even when I think there may be too many, they seem very comfortable with the number (9 yellow tail congos, and 7 flame tetras). I had some (5) elreys before the flames but thought I had too many tetras and traded them. The congos seemed not as secure as before until I put in some flame tetras (seems like anything over 14 is a good number for them). I think tetras are like party animals at a New Year's eve party :D

Now some fish are more loners and want their elbow room :). I think it depends also how much maintanence you're willing to do too. More fish in a given space, more maintanence, more water changes to keep everything stable.

[DAN66]

Hi,

Good post richard, I agree 100 PERCENT that the inch per gallon rule is not worth the paper it's written on!!!!

Cheers
Dan

[chocstrwberry]

Ok, people have told me that my tank is overstocked. But when I had less fish in my smaller tank(2 1/2 gallons) they were unhappy. If you do have neon tetras what is a good rule of thumb. I tried the link above, but being a newbie, it really confused me. This is what I have...1 small Africain Dwarf frog (about 3/4 of an inch), 1 placostamus About 1 1/2 in.,2 spotted cories about 1/2 in., 3 neon tetras,1 spotted tetra , 1 tetra of some kind (1/2 inch). Until I put the 2nd spotted cori and 2 more tetras in the tank, the tetras I had would nevr "light up",now they are always bright. They look as if they have plenty of room.

[tpl*co]

:p Tetras seem to be from a club of "the more the merrier" and actually are unhappy and languish if they don't have enough of their fellow tetras. I have yellow tail congos and had to get 9 of those, which was OK, but they became the happiest and showed off breeding behavior when I added 7 von rio tetras to the mix (seems that their magic number for mine is anything over 13 tetras). They only feel really comfortable and show off in a group and I've heard neons have to be at least a group of 6 minimum. Of course then you have to make sure you have tank space. My tank is pretty heavily stocked, but with routine maintance, water changes and lots of filtration, my water in the tank is fine :).

[stunt 101]

yea dont try and tell me that a 10" koi would be happy in a ten gallon. :)

[PumaWard]

Ok, people have told me that my tank is overstocked. But when I had less fish in my smaller tank(2 1/2 gallons) they were unhappy. If you do have neon tetras what is a good rule of thumb. I tried the link above, but being a newbie, it really confused me. This is what I have...1 small Africain Dwarf frog (about 3/4 of an inch), 1 placostamus About 1 1/2 in.,2 spotted cories about 1/2 in., 3 neon tetras,1 spotted tetra , 1 tetra of some kind (1/2 inch). Until I put the 2nd spotted cori and 2 more tetras in the tank, the tetras I had would nevr "light up",now they are always bright. They look as if they have plenty of room

Tank size is important to whether your tank is overstocked or not. But, I do see one fish that will get too big for anything less than a 75g, and that's the pleco. Plecos can get over 18'' in length and should grow fast if given the proper conditions.

[chocstrwberry]

I know that the pleco will get to big, I am going to give him away when it grows bigger. Since then I have upgraded to a 5.5 gallon tank. My mom has given my son more fish for the new tank. So we now have...

1 pleco
4 neon tetras
1 some kind of small freshwater shark 1 inch bigh with black fins
1 spotted tetra
3 spotted cory
2 yellow clawed crabs
2 Africian dwarf frogs
3 small striped fish long and skinny?about 1/4 in big

[FISHLORD_8]

so true , so true :rolleyes:

[anxsar]

Well Risher, you have made some valid points but have mis-stated the original rule. If stated in this manner.. "one inch of adult sized fish per gallon of water" For you to follow this rule, almost requires you to have some understanding of the fish you intend to keep before you ever put it togetherl

Consider this. 10 gallon tank = 10 inches of adult sized fish.. NOT 10 - 1" convicts. though it can certainly be done..

Anyway, Everyone should understand the rule is a general tank maintainance rule and NOT a compatibility rule. ANother part of that rule might be added as..

Every fish is AT LEAST 1 inch long..

Now state it this way...

a comfortable stocking level for a tank for the purpose of tank maintainance is one inch of adult size fish per gallon of water and every fish should be considered at least one inch long for stocking purposes. That means a MAX of 10 fish in a 10 gallon tank.

This is also a beginners rule.. people with experience and having done the reading that is so important for these animals.. you should be able to learn where you can cheat and where being conservative is more important. That is where your statements become true.. It is a good rule and should show the extreme limitations of small tanks.. which goes to rule number 2.. Get as large a tank as you can afford and have room for.

Smile all

Anchor

[OrionGirl]

One 10 inch fish still won't work in a 10 gallon tank.

[anxsar]

One 10 inch fish still won't work in a 10 gallon tank.

I did not make the claim it would.. I stated it as a NEWBIE rule..

most all of everyones statements are going way beyond the simplicity this rule is supposed to state. Most newbies wont .. actually I was going to say they wont put a 10 inch fish in a 10 gallon tank.. I have seen it done (unsuccessfully)and know that to be wrong.. but I am sure you know what I mean.. .. OK I want to believe you understand.

I look at it this way.. Most rules are set up as generalities.. I can make and break every rule I can think of on a regular basis. We are however taking a simple stocking rule and sending it way out in left field. This thread as it has been moving along does not belong on this forum.. Newbie freshwater questions.. etc.. ALmost any question of this type should be prefaced with

"There are exceptions to every rule"

I personally have kept about a dozen 2 to 3 inch goldfish in a 10 gallon tank successfully for many months.. BUT.. it did require more than would be considered normal tank maintainance.

OK new rule.. "Never expect an aquarist to show common sense in the face of GOTTA HAVE IT conditions".

So, the inch of fish rule should have the following prefaces to be correct..

Given the knowledge to understand the characteristics of the fish involved, an appropriate stocking level for maintainance purposes is about and inch of adult fish per gallon. Thus it means you should know the adult size or eventual size of the fish you are getting before you put them into a tank..

Without some knowledge of your fish, you will have troubles, especially as a newbie.. and I bet everyone on here can attest to that.

Anchor

[roliva]

I did not make the claim it would.. I stated it as a NEWBIE rule..
Anchor

I thought that's what you meant too. Thanks for clarifying. Of course, that's the whole purpose of this thread - to break this 'Inch/gallon Newbie rule'.

[robmit87]

Being fairly new to this kind of stuff, this post really was helpful. I've had too many pet stores try to sell me this "rule" when I've seen my fish kill eachother, and the stores were just stunned. Thanks for the advice.

[anxsar]

I thought that's what you meant too. Thanks for clarifying. Of course, that's the whole purpose of this thread - to break this 'Inch/gallon Newbie rule'.

Well, If you break this rule, or omit it entirtely, how do you explain maximum sticking to a newbie. I guess everyone arguing it as a bad rule shoulld tell me maybe it is .. but .. without it I only see chaos.

When I have sold fish to a new person some years ago, I would usually explain that every fish is at least one inch long. A 1.2 inch fish is 2 inches.. a 3.1 is 4 inches.. etc. It brings maximums down some.. The idea is to promote good tank maintainance and to not over stock a tank to allow for good growth and good health.

It helps to avoid complex mathematical equations, like some of the posters were suggesting, in trying to help a new person out. Also not everyone has tanken classes beyond basic math. Anyway I hope you understand, though it can be confusing, it is not a bad rule.

Anchor

[MikeO]

I would think that one should use all the rules you can find, find out how many fish each rule will allowe and take the lowest number of all the rules.

For instance (assuming i did the stuff right) some one posted a link to a artical that had this long drawn out prosesee to do to find out how many fish you can have (and I assmumed that the fish I am going to keep were 3x1x.5 all in inch, then I converted that to metric because the artical was in metric, the fish in question was a Red Eyed Tetra and I upped the size a bit just for safty) using that site I came up with 23 fish (huh!, that is way too many!) If any one wants I can forward the excel file I have so you can double check my work.

Some one said 1 sq in per gall if I used that I would get and I get about 13 1/3 (13)

if I use the 1" per gal (and go with the normail 2 inch that Red Eye Tetras are usally labled to grow to) I get 10.

So I figure 10 is the correct number, Yes I would love to get more, but I don't think the fish would be happy.

Also I know fish are not boxes, but it helped in the calculations to just assume them as boxes.

[TKOS]

The major problem is that all fish are different. They all need to be looked at as individuals. An oscar can easily fit in a 40 gallon tank when grown, but that is not nearly enough tank for it to thrive in. Zebra Danios can easily fit in 5 gallon tanks but that doesn't take into account their need for large swimming territories. A single clown loach goes great in a 30 gallon tank, but since they really need to be in groups a 75 gallon tank minimum is generally suggested.

Maximum size is only one considration when stocking a tank. So any rule that ties an adult fish's size to a tank size just won't work for 90% of the fish out there.

[MikeO]

Agreed. But it 1 factor, agreed that temperment and activity leavel probably are just as important. And tank shape probably takes a good looking at. I would think a long tank would be better for some fish, and for others you should have a deaper tank.

[greaypalomino]

ok, so do i have too many for my tank?

i have a 10 gallon with 2 small blue rams, 1 small columbian cat shark, 2 small (feeder) goldfish, a snail and a sucker fish.

we're planning to get a 55 gallon tank in a month or 2...should be get one sooner?

thanks!

[waterdawg]

Yes...I think you are overstocked or at least you will be (depends how big these fish actually are). If everbody is very small right now you are probably ok for the short term. Do frequent water changes and monitor water quality until you get your 55 up and running.

[Bobafish]

I'd never heard it like that b4. Will take into cosideration, thx!

[squeek]

What do you think of the "at least 10 gallons per goldfish" rule.....

[Mike Rathnow]

Yes, it is alright to keep, lets say 10, 1in. fish in a 10 gallon tank. "As long as the fish don't grow over that 1in. mark." And you don't want to try keeping a fish that when it grows lets say over 6" or bigger in a small tank like a 10gal. People need to use some kind of common sense when it come to housing fish. No, you're not going to want to keep a 10" oscar in a 10gal. tank. This "isn't" where the rule applies. The best rule of thumb is the bigger the tank the better for the fish. The best thing for newbies is to read up on the fish they want to keep. Find out what water conditions the fish need, and what is compatable with each other. You don't want to keep African cichlids with South American cichlids. Or decide to keep a Red devil in a well planted tank. When starting a community tank. You don't want to keep lets say Barbs with any log finned fish like bettas. In the 40 some years I've been keeping and breeding fish. I've found it best to keep fish with their own kind. And fish that are territorial keeping one male to 2 or 3 females work the best. If you even think your tank is getting over crowded, 9 times out of 10 it is. Don't make keeping fish hard. When starting a new tank, start out slowly. A new tank needs time to build up the proper bacteria's and water quality before you can introduce the fish you want. Get some feeder guppies and raise them in the tank for a couple of months before you go and introduce other fish. If the guppies don't make it, then something in the water is wrong, and you're not out a ton of money. All tanks need to be seeded correctly first. Oh well I ranted enough. Good luck to you all.

Mike Rathnow

[blasterman]

Fish metabolism. Some fish are like living playdoh poop factories

Yup, a single large tinfoil barb can/will excrete more ammonia than 10x it's length in fish like Gouramis or tetras.

[firefly]

I work in an LFS (actually it's a chain, but our store is one of the better ones in our area, better even than some non-chain lfs. IF all our stores followed the necessary rules for keeping up our animals and/or tanks, they'd all be great, but I know not all our stores do..., oh and we're way better than our competitor chain), and I"ve gotten customers who come in with a new take on this rule that is even worse. They say "Now, the rule is, one fish per gallon of water, right? So, I can put ten fish in this ten gallon tank?". YIKES!! The bottom line most of our basic fish newbies want to know is how many fish they can put in one tank. (usually, how many fish can I have in this 1 gallon tank?). So, I say, actually, the rule you are thinking of is most likely "one inch of fish per gallon of water" and this is a huge generalization and doesn't work in all circumstances. I also explain that many fish have a minimum tank size required. And, that even though there is a minimum tank size, it doesn't mean you can only put one of those in that size, but rather you can (and often should with schoolers) have many of them in that size tank. (and/or other suitably tempered fish). (also, the one inch per gallon rule is much more for bioload(and still not always helpful, though usually fine for smaller thinner schoolers) rather than temperment, and that also must be taken into account) We reccomend that beginners start with no less than 20gallons, though many want to start smaller and get larger only if they have luck keeping fish alive. It's hard to get them to understand that it is actually easier to keep fish alive in a larger tank. (of course, we also have to explain that larger tanks are really not a huge pain to care for, because you don't want to remove all the water and wash all the gravel regularly...). Most of the time, our newbie customers feel as though we are trying to sell them more than they need with larger tanks and fancy filters. However, those who have done some research know we are setting them straight and usually are happy with our advice. We do get newer associates that have less fish experience than those of us with 7+ tanks, they however, will explain some of the basics, and say "I don't know" if they don't know an answer. They also don't hesitate to find someone more experienced to answer a question. So, at least we try very hard (with few exceptions, but those tend to weed themselves out of our business) not to provide misinformation. IT just gets tough to correct all the myths out there, and often we do have to sell fish to less than ideal environments. (though for really bad situations, we can say NO.).

So, for someone who wants to put one fish per gallon, getting them to think about size of the fish (and not just current size, but future size as well) is a major breakthrough.

If everyone would just do their homework :read: , we'd be far better off!

Emily

[fishy56]

I have a 10 gallon tank with 4 platys and 4 guppies (2 bottom feeders) and there are 4 week-old fries still alive. They aren't bothering each other and the platys like eating lower in the tank than guppies. Is this ok in your opinion? fishy56 :D

[razor]

i have a 30 gallon tank could i put 2 yellow labs 2 convicts and 3 loaches in the tank -all 1 inch

[mdbaskett]

The problem with a rule is that people think if they follow the rule they can't go wrong. My fish are unhappy? Not my fault! I followed the rule! If people would use some sense instead of sticking to a rule that may or may not apply to their situation we wouldn't need to have this conversation.

The problem with a rule such as the inch/gallon rule is that it is geared for a specific audience and open to interpretation. As a rule for beginners its not really informative enough. Experts, on the other hand, shouldn't need a rule. They should know enough about their fish to create an appropriate environment for them.

Some newbies run out and get tank and fish without really taking the time to research and plan. Some newbies overplan and get paralyzed by all the conflicting information. I think a happy medium is preferrable.

Keeping a 10" fish in a 10g tank is cruel. Keeping 10 - 1" fish in a 10g tank may or may not be, depending on the type of fish and the keeper's attentiveness to the wellbeing of the water and its inhabitants.

I think a better rule would be that newbies not be allowed to buy tanks smaller than 20g without first passing a written test on aquarium cycling and maintenance.

That being said, keeping 11 - 1" fish in a 10g tank may not be ideal but it doesn't make you a bad person.

As for me? I was in a hurry to enjoy the hobby so I ran out and got a tiny tank before doing the research. Then I started reading, and reading, and reading. Before I bought fish I set up the tank, played with the filter, set up the heater, played with the heater, bought a new bulb, planted a few plants, tested the water, changed the water, played with the gravel vaccuum, went to the store and looked at fish and asked a lot of questions, fertilized, went back to the store to visit the fish, read some more and finally, after about 3 weeks, bought a few fish (I'm fishy cycling, gently).

As soon as I bought my little 5g tank to start keeping fish I started saving for a bigger tank. Hopefully by the time my tank is crowded due to growth or my inability to leave the store without a new pet, I'll have set up a nice large home for the current inhabitants to move to and my 5g will make a nice quarantine.

Misty
brand newbie (planted for 2 weeks, added fish yesterday)
5g tank
3 glowlight rasboras
1 amazon sword
1 ozelot sword
1 dwarf grass

[bubbles42151]

:hang: it's always better to understock your tank any way! :hang:

[marlihen]

...How about forgetting the "inch per gallon" rule, simply because not all fish swim at the same levels? If I have too many bottom feeders and nothing else, well, what a boring set up! And, unhappy fishes as well. The same goes for those on the surface: here, let's put 10 African Butterfly fish in one tank! Hmmm....I am thinking CARNAGE! Every fish has it's own pesonality, space requirements, companion preference, etc. But, at least in my experience, people who 'have' fish are not interested. People who 'keep' fish are the ones who make sure they (the FISH) are happy, healthy, and well cared for. Rant off.
~steps down from soapbox~

Smiles, marli

[Larissa]

well, i read this whole thread and all most people said was don't use the inch/gallon rule and research your fish. Well, I've researched the fish, I know the adult size of what I have and I also know the max size tank recommended for each type of fish I have. That still doesn't tell me how many fish I can put in my tank.

[mt_marcy]

Ok, so I understand the 1 inch per gallon rule is un reliable....Who and how did this myth get started/come about? If it's such a myth, then why do employees at the lfs's, as well as books and articles on the net(for notes on the net, i know that is to be taken with as "grain of salt") explain/state this rule to use? They make it sound so factual....That's propably how employees at the lfs's got it from, by researching in the books...Anyone know how this myth got started, so that people who write books on fish keeping refers to this???
mt_marcy:)

[RTR]

In the same manner that adding salt to FW tanks became common. Someone wrote it down, others copied that to seem more "knowledgeable" than they really were, and it bacame another aquarium myth. But it does work for small, slender-bodied fish to some degree, provided that the maximum size of the fish involved is used (not the LFS purchase size). Nothing beats knowing what the fish needs and what size and activity level it will show.

[poysen]

That rule is in place as a guideline, but how does one know where in that guideline you fall. You say do your homework.

I did that for MONTHS before buying/looking at fish. All I saw was one site after another contradicting what the last site said.

NO help at all.

I asked at local shops. To verify information.

THEY gave me INCORRECT info. (I was new, I didn't know they were full of it) Now I'm down to 2 fish out of 5. One of them is still sick and probably won't pull through.

Is that my fault? I did everything right. But the end result (bad advice from not one, but TWO local shops) is why I and maybe my fish are currently in hell.

I asked around at locally owned pet shops, but 2/2 have both gave me critically bad advice and information. One blames the other one for having sold me sick fish and claims my tank is contaminated. (Fish all looked healthy when bought.. but my expereince has shown they don't always look sick until close to death) Nothing and no one says the same thing as anything else.. so one, such as myself spending months, and hours on end looking for info is not much further ahead than the one not having researched. I tried.. I failed.. not fully my fault, but I'm to blame too I guess.

My point.

Where do we get ACCURATE info? And where can we learn what is and isnt accurate before it's in a situation that I'm in now? I'm not a cruel person. I don't want any creature to suffer. And it breaks my heart seeing them sick/dying. Like I said I lost 3 swords in 2 weeks. One left is ill. May or may not pull through. I've already begun looking for a NEW shop and will NOT use either shop again for stocking any tank. I did all this 'homework' hoping to avoid the very disaster I'm in now.. and it got me nowhere.

Just like it's frustrating to you all to see people dive into this fishkeeping uninformed, it's just as frustrating on my end to do all that and still falter. I in no way neglected my tank. I did daily changes, daily tests. I did all the maintaining correctly. The critical stocking stage was all that got marred and what did me in. I ALWAYS research ANY living creature I care for. And never ever had any issues.. even with 'exotic' pets. To me this disaster is devastating and heartbreaking. I don't want anymore sick fish.. but am afraid tank might truly be contaminated. Any suggestions? (main tank was treated with Fungus clear too.. at which point to treat all fish since all looked iffy. Guppy appears healthy and might make it)

Please excuse my venting my frustrations. It's not easy learning the trade when you have shoddy informative sources.. or plenty of contradictory ones. Just kinda pointing out that those that are in a bad situation are not always those to blame..

BTW. I was told that if my fish (both the 2 I have now) do not make it.. that I should break down tank, wash with bleach and start back at square one. Anyone else think this would be necessary? (If I restarted I would be using Bio-Spira to cycle tank and to not loose all the time I took to naturally cycle my tank in the last 6+ weeks.)

[SnakeIce]

Here (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=279331&postcount=3) is a replacement considering just biological room needed for a combination of fish.

research is still needed since you would need to know the adult size of the fish desired for it to do any good. The rest of the article addresses 2 more variables that would be first encountered when starting an aquarium.

[poysen]

Thank you SnakeIce. I bookmarked that for any future references.

Yeah, I know most adult sizes of fish.. I swayed myself from putting the 2-3 clown loaches in a 10 gallon tank that my LFS said could be added and be 'just fine' to live. (I really have to have the WORST LFS's in my area.) LOL. So, I actually with hours of research knew better than that (thank goodness for the fish's sake)

[jonsnow13]

i am fairly new at this myself. i am finding that it is easy to become overwhelmed at the amount of information out there.
info is often conflicting or just plain wrong. every1 has an opion, the only 1 that really counts however, is the fish's. so it is important to find a few good sources of info and stick with them to get u through the early learning phases.
i too fell for the 1 inch per gal rule and now have 2 clown loaches, 1 red tail black shark, 1 gold gourami, and 1 african dwarf clawed frog in my 30 gal. right now it is a happpy healthy well balanced tank but i will eventualy need a much larger tank. wait till one of ur fish is choking :eek: . try to find info on doing the heimlich on a fish :look: . lol. this happened to me yesterday. my smallest loach was choking and i had to do something and it worked. the only info i could find suggested that i take a pair of forceps and remove the obstruction. lol, 1 blade of the forceps i have r bigger than his mouth. anyways all i am saying is that sometimes the info that is available to us is not always the best or is good for 1 situation but not another, and that the best way to learn these things is to just keep at it.

[poysen]

I agree Jon. I'm trying not to get too discouraged or frustrated.. and if it weren't for my son being so in love with the fish I might have given up on this... then again it wasn't a cheap setup lol.. maybe not. Anyway.. I'm trying to learn from the mistakes and aviod anything that I can to make it not happen again.

Step 1. No more swordtails. Ever.
Step 2. Never buy fish from the 2 shops I got mine at. I cannot determine what, if any shop sold me ill fish, but both shops have no clue on the care for them and that is enough on its own to go elsewhere.

The good news.. my tank is at least cycled.. and the fish that remain at least have stable waters to live in now.

[telecubby]

Good post, Richer.
you have a good point but CONVICT CICLID is a bad example.

Left alone they will breed out their environment ,(like guppys) Put 4 1 inch convicts in a 30 gallon tank & in 2 years it's Mayhem.There would be hundreds of fry & could be 100 breedable adults without noticeable losses(though they take care of those themselves) A fullgrown Ciclid would be unnatural from wild or large tank to a small 30 gallon.They will only grow as big as the tank will allow ,so if you let them grow out in a 30 they wouldn't exceed 6inches thereabouts.Most other fish would be happy in that size tank without over breeding their own environment crashing their system without human intervention.

[OrionGirl]

telecubby--fish that don't reach their normal adult size are stunted, and not healthy. It's a total myth that fish grow to the size of their environment with any health.

For what it's worth, I still think there's a lot of value in this thread. To prevent it from being even further buried under 'other' topics, I'm locking it.