Is this a good set-up?

[theevoys]

I am brand new to saltwater and I haven't purchased anything yet. I have read Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies and a ton of posts of different forums. So, with having absolutely no knowledge of any of this before, I figured it would be wise to ask all of you if what I am about to purchase is a good choice for a 55 gallon glass tank that will eventually have fish/live rock/live sand and hopefully adding inertebrates at some point.
Well, here's my list to start the cycling: :D

1 - 55 Gallon Glass Tank
1 - Fluval 304
1 - Protein Skimmer (any suggestions)
1 - Air Pump to Oxygenate (?)
1 - 250 watt Submersible Heater
1 - Salt Mix
1 - Test Kits (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, alkalinity, pH)

What kind of lights should I get (cost is a huge issue for me)?
What is a 50/50 light?
How much Southdown should I buy from Home Depot?
Oh, also... I never really figured out what a sump was instead of other filtering methods. But, people seem to prefer this option over anything else. Why? And do you have to build it? Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Jason :)

[M-pire]

Hey Theevoys, glad to hear you are trying saltwater...there is nothing like it! 55 gallons is a great size tank to start with, it is big enough to help stabalize the water, but small enough to not be too expensive.

From what you mentioned, you are doing a FOWLR setup (fish only with live rock). So you aren't doing corals correct?

If there isn't going to be any corals or anemones, then lighting isn't a big deal. The expensive lighting is needed to sustain corals and such.

In reef tanks most people have a combination of Actinic bulbs and 10,000k bulbs. A 50/50 is half actinic and half 10,000k...trying to get a little of both worlds. Again, not necessary if all you are doing is fish and a few crabs,

How much sand you need depends on what type of setup you want. Are you going to try to setup a DSB (deep sand bed)? DSBs are for nitrate reduction, which for a fish only tank isn't a big deal as long as you keep up with water changes. Anyway, for DSB you need at least 4" and if you dont do a DSB then as little sand as you want.

A sump is just a tank underneath the main, display, tank. Most people, myself included, use sumps to increase water volume, meaning more room for error and/or more room for fish...and to hide all of the filtration. I keep my skimmer and heaters down in the sump so you don't have to look at them above, but that is just preference. You do not have to build them, any tank will do...some people even use rubbermain containers. I built mine just so I could get the size and shape I wanted under the stand.

You really shouldn't need an air pump for oxygenation, anything that disturbs the surface of the water will add enough oxygen.

I would suggest a CPR Bak Pak 2 protein skimmer. This is what I have and it works great. It is considered to be one of the best and it isn't to expensive...$110 shipped online, and that is the price my local fish store sells junk skimmers for.

Hope this answered a few of your questions. Alot more people here are more qualified than me, and they'll chime in to help too!

Good Luck and Enjoy!!!! :)

[theevoys]

Thanks a ton for the input! Ok, so I still have a few questions.
1. With the Fluval 304 canister filter, isn't the filter system hidden down below already?
2. And I am not really sure how a canister filter functions (how the water gets the to filter and back to tank). Is it just the tubes and then the filter itself powers the water tranfser? It seems that with this option of a canister filter and the protein skimmer, there wouldn't be enough surface disturbance. Would a wand that produces bubbles along the back of the tank be sufficient?
3. As for corals... I don't think I'll have any. But, maybe an anemone later on or something. So, I am hoping to start the tank so that it won't be super difficult to add. I'll go with a DSB as it seems like it would be difficult to add that much sand later.
4. The sump sounds like a great idea now that I understand it! Would a ten gallon tank be sufficient for a sump? Then what would I use to disturb the water in the main tank?
5. What type of filter do you use in your sump?

It seems like I have more questions than before! But, I guess it's just clarification on the best options. :D Thanks again!!
Jason

[ben72227]

1. M-pire means that you can put your H.O.B. filters, skimmers, heaters, etc. in the sump below rather than having them in your main display tank. Here's a picture of a sump (http://www.aquatic-concepts.co.za/gallery/sump.jpg) so you can understand what we're talking about.

2. Do you already own the canister filter? If not, then don't get it. There's no reason to. If you already do have one, then just run it without filter media in it. It will provide some water movement.

3. What kind of light are you going to get? If you want an anemone, you should probably get some decent PC (Power Compact) lights.

4. Yes, a 10 gallon would be fine if you could fit everything in it. The return water from your sump that's going back into the tank would cause water movement (a disturbance). Most of us use special pumps called POWERHEADS to disturb water in our main tanks, so as to stimulate waves in the ocean, etc. Get some powerheads and get a maxijet brand if you can. AVOID RIO powerheads; they are very dangerous.

5. As for sump filtration, it varies by what type of tank you have (FOWLR, FO, Reef, etc.). If you decide to use a sump, then there are protein skimmers made for sump use that can be placed in the sump tank instead of hanging on the side, like most skimmers.

Suggestions for skimmers:

If you get a H.O.B. (Hang on Back) skimmer, then go with either a bak pak 2 or an aquac remora, the remora being a little better than the bak pak and a bit more expensive as well. As for in-sump skimmers, i can't think of any of the top of my head, but i know that aquac makes one...


I have read Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies

This is a very outdated book. I have it in my fish book library. It considers UGFs to be the best you can have and it says live rock is too much of a hassle.... Awful, outdated book.

theevoys, get these two books:

1. "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert M. Fenner
This book is considered by many of us to be the "bible" of marine fishkeeping. It's written by Fenner, who is one of the best in the world. IF YOU GET NOTHING ELSE, GET THIS BOOK!

2. "Marine Fishes: 500+ Essential-to-Know Aquarium Species" by Scott W. Michael.
This book can be considered as the "pocked-sized fish encyclopedia." It has all the fish that you will ever think about putting in your tank and it's great for when you have questions like, "Is my tank big enough for that?", "Will it eat my corals?", "Does it play nice with the other fish?", etc.

Both of those books are excellent to have, and i strongly recommend you getting them.

Also, here's a general list of everything you will need for your tank:

1. Heater - I recommend an Ebo*Jager heater (200 Watts maybe?)
2. Salt - I recommend Instant Ocean brand
3. Test Kits - FasTest, Seachem, and many others to choose from
4. Oolitic Aragonite Sand - Get some Old Kastle sand (walmart sells this as walmart playsand. look for old kastle on the packaging)
5. Hydrometer
6. A net
7. A tank background - black seems to work best for me
8. An Intermatic timer for your lights
9. A GFI (Ground Fault Interupter)
10. A protein skimmer (see recomendations above)
11. PC lights - I'd go with Coralife (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9871&R=17345&N=2004+113345+113565&in_merch=1), since CustomSeaLife has gone out of business.
12. A powerhead or two for water movement - maybe a maxijet 1200 or two 600s? (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4609&R=8948&N=2004+113040+113565&in_merch=1)
13. A thermometer
14. As Ray always says, you might get a Emperor 400 (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3619&R=7755&N=2004+22769+113565&in_merch=1) for filtration instead of a fluval. You can use them for water movement and put carbon in them when you need to clear up the tank of medications, etc.

Also, you will probably need some live rock and live sand. Look in the other threads for more info. about live rock.

[theevoys]

Thanks, both of you. I am not going to get the Fluval and I decided I am not going to use a sump with my first tank. I'm sure as time goes by I will probably begin to go that direction (the sump). For now, I am pretty sure I will go with the CPR Back Pak 2, the Emporer 200, 1 MaxiJet 1200, and the Ebo*Jager Heater. Now all I need to do is add it all up and convince the wife. :rolleyes: Wish me luck! Again, thanks for the help. I'm sure I'll be posting many more times as I start the set-up and cycling.
Jason

[as40]

Yeah, for your first setup you should be fine without the sump, as long as you set everything up right. I definately want to add that it is a very wise move to go with the DSB. Also, want to second (or third) the idea of geting some LR. Good luck, and welcome aboard!

[theevoys]

A few more things. I have been reading other posts and when talking about an FOWLR tank (mine will be 55 gallons) some people give very different opinions.

Here are three of the different opinions I have seen:
1. CPR Bak Pak 2 and MaxiJet 1200, no bio-wheel
2. CPR Bak Pak 2 + (2) Maxi Jet 600, no bio-wheel
2. Emporer 400 Bio-wheel + CPR Bak Pak 2 + MaxiJet 1200
3. Emporer 400 Bio-wheel + CPR Bak Pak 2 + (2) MaxiJet 600

What is your opnion on these options?
Obviously option #1 saves a bit of money.
Jason

[ben72227]

Ray Pollett (a senior member on AC) who owns a fish store (i think) recommends the emperor 400s for FOWLR. Personally, i don't have any experience with them, but according to Ray (correct me if im wrong ray) you can keep the biowheels in the emperor and it doesn't do any worse that if you remove them. Also, i think ray(again im not sure about this) uses the emperors instead of skimmers(for FO tanks).

I will let Ray explain this if he comes across this topic, as im not completely sure what he does.

I would go with 2 maxijet 600s, so that way you can get water movement in multiple areas of the DISPLAY tank instead of just one spot.

Also, I think you going without the sump is just fine. I don't have a sump myself (want one in the future) and with a FOWLR its not necessary to have a sump.

Really what you could do is just have a skimmer, the maxijets, and some live rock (with a GOOD clean up crew) to take care of your mechanical & Biological filtration. I'll let the other members comment more on this, as im not too sure about the H.O.B. filter thing.

[M-pire]

I had 2 Emperor 400s on my 72 gallon before I went to the reef setup. All I had was the two emperors, a heater, simple strip light, and a little live rock. No skimmer. I kept only fish, snails, and hermit crabs...they all did fine. However, I think it would be better to go with ben72227's idea of a skimmer and some powerheads. As long as you have a bunch of live rock and a good clean up crew, and dont over feed, everything should be great for fish only. Having the skimmer will help on down the road if you switch to reef. I bought the emperors and they worked great, but now that I switched to reef I had to buy a skimmer anyway and I put away my emperors. Its your call! :)

[ben72227]

yeah M-pire pretty much summed it up. You can either have some emperors or a skimmer. My advice - go with the skimmer, as you may want to have a reef tank on down the road and then you won't have to worry about getting rid of the emperors and having to shell out more money on a skimmer.

Also, for the skimmer, while bak paks are nice, i HIGHLY recommend a Aquac Remora. I know it's more expensive, but this really is an expensive hobby and you will be more pleased with the remora. But if you really are in a budget crunch, the bak pak would be fine.

Now that we have your tank figured out, any ideas on fish?:p

[theevoys]

Well, unfortunately I am VERY limited on fish if I buy them in town. We have a whole two stores with saltwater fish and they aren't what I would call diverse or extensive with their stock. Only one sells live rock that looks like crap for $9 a pound! So, I figure once I get started I'll take a trip to Phoenix, AZ to look for some other options of fish. I can pretty much get eels, lionfish, clowns, damsles, and a few other types depending on how the lfs guy feels at the time I guess.
Any suggestions? Does anyone seriously have fish shipped? Does it cost an outrageous amount? Would fish be okay for a 2 hour drive in the bag and start the acclimation process?
Jason

[ben72227]

Does the Petco in Prescott not have SW fish? Or do they just not have good selection?

My petco always has the basic fish stocked (clowns, damsels, some mandarin gobies, etc.) but they will order fish for you.

I don't order fish unless I just have to and the best site for that (if you're looking for "exotic" fish) seems to be LiveAquaria.

I would order the live rock from TampaBaySaltwater and have them ship it the airport in Phoenix (versus shipping it to your door)

[theevoys]

Yeah, Petco has some saltwater fish... for a while their sw tanks looked nasty. But, now they seem to be getting their tanks a little cleaner and a larger selection of fish here. But, most fish are barely in their tanks for a day or two before someone buys them which leaves no time to see if the good looking fish will are really healthy and hungry. Is this someting I really need to worry about? I guess I'll cross that road when I get there. Or I'll just cross the desert to Phoenix.

[theevoys]

Just an update:
After doing research for weeks and reading every new post on this forum (and just about all the old ones) I have made a list of items that I need for the tank. My list not only has each item I need, but is down to the model/brand item as well... so, I won't be convinced to buy anything stupid at the lfs. And it's not like I have a ton of money to fix my screw-ups if I don't get everything right. I already bought half of the stuff and I am on my way down to Phoenix, AZ to check out some of the stores down there. Anyone know of any good stores there?
Even though I have purchased half of the items I need, they have been pretty much the inexpensive items. :) I'll keep you all updated on the tank as I go of any of you want me to. If I forget something when I start the tank... please tell me! Thanks! I am noticing my initial list of items at the top of the tank is very different from the new one. Glad I read the stuff on this forum first!
Jason

[theevoys]

This is my new list. The stuff I bought has a star next to it. :)

55 gallon – Glass Aquarium
Tank Stand - Maybe DIY with Red Oak & Red Mohagony Stain
Hood/ Canopy - Maybe DIY with Red Oak and Red Mohagony Stain
Submersible Heater - 200 watt Ebo Jager
Powerhead - (2) Aqua Clear 402
Protein Skimmer - CPR Bak Pak 2
Automatic Light Control - Wal-Mart
* ¼” Sheet of Styrofoam - for the tank to sit on the stand
* Dry Sand - 100 lbs Quickrete Play Sand (there was no aragonite anywhere and no sand blasting sand either)
* GFCI Outlet - from Home Depot
* Lights - Jebo PC (4x55) on ebay. (yes I researched them and for the money they seem decent)
* Salt Mix - Oceanic 90 Gallon
* Hydrometer
* Test Kits (pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, aklalin) - Red Sea Kit
* Water Conditioners - Kent SW Start-up
* Background - Black
* Gravel Vacuum - Python 25'
* Algae Scrubber
* 2 - 5 Gallon Buckets
* Thermostat
* 2 Nets (small & large)

Of course a little live sand too, I'll get some lr and base rock later, then a clean-up crew, and then some fish. Sound good?
Jason

[Ray Pollett]

Originally posted by ben72227
Ray Pollett (a senior member on AC) who owns a fish store (i think)---Actually I own a maintenance company - I would like to open a reef store down the road but do not have the $750,000.00 I would need

recommends the emperor 400s for FOWLR. Personally, i don't have any experience with them, but according to Ray (correct me if im wrong ray) you can keep the biowheels in the emperor and it doesn't do any worse that if you remove them. Also, i think ray(again im not sure about this) uses the emperors instead of skimmers(for FO tanks). ---That is correct - For 55 gallon tanks (4 feet long) I use 2 Emperor 400 filters ( each is good for about 3 feet of tank length in my opinion). I used to remove the Bio-wheels as was reccomende by everyone. But being I like to try thing myself instead of taking everthing I hear as gospel; I left them in on a tank or two and saw no difference except for less salt creep. That is all I use on 55 gallon tanks - no Skimmers no Power Heads - even for soft coral reef tanks.

I will let Ray explain this if he comes across this topic, as im not completely sure what he does.

I would go with 2 maxijet 600s, so that way you can get water movement in multiple areas of the DISPLAY tank instead of just one spot.

Also, I think you going without the sump is just fine. I don't have a sump myself (want one in the future) and with a FOWLR its not necessary to have a sump. ---I never use sumps any more unless the customer demands one - Then I make them sign a waiver and charge extra.

Really what you could do is just have a skimmer, the maxijets, and some live rock (with a GOOD clean up crew) to take care of your mechanical & Biological filtration. I'll let the other members comment more on this, as im not too sure about the H.O.B. filter thing.

Ray