View Full Version : What a terrible start to new hobby...
Started with a new 15g tank, juwel filter, heater, fine gravel substrate, three live plants, and an airstone, plus a few decorations (stones etc..)
Cycled the tank, got the levels down, added a bala shark, let it run for a week or so, and I know the bala will grow, but I have a deal with my lfs to bring it back when its too big, evrything ok so far, no major hickups....
Right added a few more fish, two catfish, and three mollies, one female two male, right two days after adding the mollies, one male had fin fungus and died over night, so i took the other male to my lfs, tested my water everything still ok, but did a water change and added to fugus med my lfs gave me, some of his "own stuff"!?!? anyway, everything ok so far, or was it....
Got up one morning and removed one of my plants, the fern, it was looking quite bad, nothing to bad there, well my bala shark went beserk! flying all over the tank, really gasping for breath, but settled after an hour or so!
Right got up this morning, everyone is still there, but there seems to be an outbreak of ick, or white spot, marvelous!
So I havbe added some salt, gradually and increased the temp slowly to 80 and everything is ok so far, so its a trip down to the lfs tommorrow to see if i can get some cure for the ick, thats if the bala shark, the female molly and the catfish make it through the night!
Well what a start to this hey............!?!?!?:( :( :(
Pootspete
12-31-2002, 4:24 PM
Wow, you said a mouth full there. You seem to be doing everything right and getting the right meds to now treat your outbreak of ich.
Well, hopefully the New Year will prove to be better for you and your fish.
Happy New Year anyway!
Thanks for that, hopefully my lfs will sort me out with the right meds!
Happy new year to you to!
Fishiebusiness
12-31-2002, 4:37 PM
Even if you have an LFS to give the bala shark too, its still not good to keep fish that like to swim around in a tank as small as 15 gallons. Those catfish may also get too big, if they aren't in the corydoras genus. Also, how long and how did you cycle the tank and what are the exact levesl? Perhaps different fish selection would alleviate many of your problems.
125gJoe
01-01-2003, 1:40 AM
A major cause of Ick is when doing water changes, people forget to check the water temperatures. Make sure the temperatures are the same. A 2 degree Celcius change is not good and stresses the fish. Inexpensive digital cooking thermometers work great for quick temp checks.
Well that sounds like what may have happened! I did a water chnage as suggested by the lfs sue to the fish dieing and then got ick! Whats funny is that one of the fish rubs itself on the plants, but the way it does it is so weird! its actually cool! if i can say that, but i zooms upto the plants and then changes direction just as it hits the plant, getting the relief i suppose its after!
But will hopefully sort it today!
Faramir
01-02-2003, 7:08 AM
Have to disagree. A two degree difference when changing say 20% of water will only result in a .4 degree change in water temperature. I don't think this will overly stress the fish. Do fish in the wild get ick everytime they swim past a mountain stream tributary into their river?
Mollies are not good fish for new tanks. They tend towards the delicate. Established, well run in tanks are best for them. They are not available in large numbers because they are easy fish, but because they breed like rabbits.
I think i have to agree with you there, people say that mollies are easy to keep, but infact the requiremtents of keeping mollies are very different to a community tank, so like you say there are loads around because they breed quickly!
Anyway, had something funny happen, i was medicating the tank with a whitespot cure, that is a funny green colour, and contains formalin, as i was adding it to the tank, one of the bala's jumped right out of the tank and into my shirt pocket, its a big pocket! but what a thing to happen! truley amazing!
Anyway, put it back in the tank and is doing ok now, and so are the others, everything seems to be going ok so far! fingers crossed....
:)
125gJoe
01-02-2003, 3:51 PM
Originally posted by Faramir
Have to disagree. A two degree difference when changing say 20% of water will only result in a .4 degree change in water temperature. I don't think this will overly stress the fish. Do fish in the wild get ick everytime they swim past a mountain stream tributary into their river?
And, I have to disagree. Using different temps of water for water changes is not good - at all. There are articles on temperature change and stress. Why take a chance with your fish and possibly kill them, when one can easily check and make sure the 'new' water you put in your tank is the same temperature as the existing tank water. It's not that hard to get a digital cooking (or similar) thermometer and check, at the tap, and tank, and make sure they are very close. (one article is in Dr. Foster Smith Aquarium Outfitters pg. 84)
Faramir, perhaps you are 'trickling' in new water to your tanks when doing water changes? This may work fine, given the time to do that. I think most do not have the time for that. Most likely, people 'pour in' the new water during the water change process.
Maybe your tap water and tank water are normally the same temps, or within a degree, which is good...
It has been proven that temperature changes of just a few degrees will cause an 'ich' outbreak. Ich can stay dormant until stress weakens a fish... Why take that chance?
As far as a mountain stream (very cold..) flowing into a (cold) river.. well, I think those native fish know what is normal to them, and do not purposely stress themselves out. Right now I'm trying to picture an aquarium emulating a mountain stream tributary flowing into a river.. I can't picture it.
Just my advice.. I'm no 'expert'. But with temps - I won't chance it! :)
wetmanNY
01-02-2003, 4:15 PM
I'd never stir up the substrate, but glug glug glug I sure stir the debris right off the top of the substrate, up into the water for the filter to take up....
I just finished doing a 40% water change for some Black Ruby Barbs coming off a salt bender to cure their touch of fin rot (it did the trick). Cool water about 70o right into the tank glug glug glug. Of course they're not Licorice Gouramis or anything, but they like the cold water shower so much they're ready to swim up the stream into the 6-gallon jug.
A coldwater shower puts Corydoras in the breeding mood...
But saltwater fishes are very sensitive to temperature changes I read...
I guess the answer to everything is "it depends."
125gJoe
01-02-2003, 4:15 PM
GSM,
Nice 'signature' - "Life is full of ups and downs!"
Don't let your water change temperature be full of ups and downs! :)
Misskiwi67
01-02-2003, 4:24 PM
A word to the wise, the bigger your Bala Shark gets, the more he's going to freak out. One of these days he's gonna jump out when you aren't around, or else he'll bust himself up on the glass every time something spooks him. I had 3 balas in a 55 gallon, and had to give them up within a year.
They're gorgeous fish, and highly entertaining, but they were not meant for the average aquarium. I wouldn't recommend any bala shark to a tank smaller than 100 gallons. They're just too large, too spooky, and need company from other balas.
You'll save yourself a lot of heartache if you take them back now and get something more well suited to your tank size and skill level. Balas are hardy, but need more space.
Corydoras, a betta, and hardy tetras would be my recommendation.
OH, another note, unless your catfish is a corydora, he'll be big enough to eat the rest of your fish within 6 months. I lost a fish a night once mine learned they were edible.
Thanks 80g, well life is full of ups and downs, but my water changes, well i try to make sure they are not, only done a few so far!
The balas, well after the amusing and shocking experience of one landing in my pocket, I have to agree with people they are meant for bigger and better tanks, so i will take it back to the lfs and see what else is on offer, once i have done treating the ick!
I have to say though, I find this "hobby" very peacefull in many ways, I sit there for very long periods of time just looking at the fishes and observing their individual activities!
A bit of a change from my job as a paramedic!
Well I hope I can learn more and get to grips with keeping fish, I have always wanted to do so for a very long time, and finally got round to it!
I am sorry for boring you so i will shut up now!
:rolleyes:
Misskiwi67
01-02-2003, 5:02 PM
boring us? Nope, just a reminder of what we've all done too. I'm very experienced with Balas and catfish in tanks that are too small...:o The reason I'm here is to share my experience, and to put a break in the boredom of work... hehe, covering for my dad's office manager is SOOO fun. There's a huge pile of stuff for her to do, but nothing that I can do except for answer the phone...
So anyway, welcome to AC, and the fishkeeping hobby in general. There's a wealth of knowledge here (its where 99% of mine came from :D ) and the more time you spend here, the more you learn, and the more enjoyable fishkeeping will be.
A suggestion for when you do get more fish... you really should set up a quarentine tank so you aren't exposing your current fish to any "badies" coming in from other tanks.
And imo anyway... for the ich.. any thing can stress a fish and allow ich the footing it needs to attack. Even you reaching in to remove the plant can tbe enough of a stressor for some of the more skittish fish.
Good luck and welcome to the addiction. :)
Again thanks for the help, and I have to agree that even a little stress will cause any problem, not just ich to get a hold, and this is what disturbs me a little, as even though you may have the biggest tank you can afford or accomodate, even though the chemical balance may be harder to change suddenly, there are many other factors that could cause stress, such as external factors, like you and me and other pets etc...
So its just a case of learning as you have so rightly said!
By the way just though i would mention the genus of the catfish, it is Corydoras so i should be ok with that in my tank! well at least i hope so!
Faramir
01-03-2003, 4:41 AM
I pour. I ensure the water is about the same temperature, but I don't obsess about it. I agree that large temperature changes can be a stressor, but I think the danger is overemphasised. I especially disagree with the assertion that this is "a major cause of ick". The major cause of ick is introducing new fish that have not been quarantined. I have seen ick in fish on a number of occasions, and it's always been after introducing new fish, never after a water change.
I cannot find any evidence anywhere that ick can lie dormant for more than a few days. What I think can happen is that fish can be infected at a low level - flashing occasionally but no external symptoms, and a stressor can allow a pre-existing ick infection to become more serious.
OrionGirl
01-03-2003, 8:52 AM
I'v never had ick in my current planted tank. I am very cautious about what fish I add, and make sure each added fish is healthy. I don't mess with the temp of my water when doing changes--it's roughly 60-65. So, about 10-18 degrees different from the tank water. I do changes of about 20-25% weekly. Never had a problem with it.
Do you think fish get sick/stressed everytime there's a rain storm?
We do bring the temp up for the SW tank, but only for changes. Topoff water is from the same bucket I do my changes from. Never had a problem there, either.
I think i can agree with both of you hear, i suppose if a water change of 50% + is made it will cause an big change in the temperature of the tank, which could in turn lead to complications such as ick or others, for example if a person has an infection they are more prone to other ailments, secondary infections etc..
But when a change of under 25% is made, i dont think that it would cause a great change in the total water difference, not enough to stimulate a possible infection or parasite.
But that said i may be wrong as i am new to this game, so i am looking for guidance on this
125gJoe
01-03-2003, 3:50 PM
Originally posted by OrionGirl
So, about 10-18 degrees different from the tank water. I do changes of about 20-25% weekly. Never had a problem with it.
Do you think fish get sick/stressed everytime there's a rain storm?
First, a rainstorm will most likely never replace 25% of a lake, probably not even 2%.. Second a 10 degree change in water temps is a big difference. I learned here, and reading that I should not chance it... Overcautious? maybe..
It is good to hear your fish have not been affected by such varying water change temps.. :)
OrionGirl
01-03-2003, 3:58 PM
No, a rainstorm won't change 25% of a lake. But it will change that much in a stream...And many fish available live in a stream at some point in time.
These changes kick off spawning behavior in many species.
125gJoe
01-03-2003, 4:04 PM
Originally posted by Faramir
I pour. I ensure the water is about the same temperature, but I don't obsess about it. I agree that large temperature changes can be a stressor, ......
I cannot find any evidence anywhere that ick can lie dormant for more than a few days. It is good to let others know to keep the water 'about' the same temps. That's the point I'm trying to make. A temp gage helps out with this....
Ich can be dormant in gravel, or the fish. A weakened fish is an easy host.
Of course this is just what I have come to understand.. And, not by any means 'expert advice'. I'm always learning. :)
Now now, lets not fight!
Lets agree to disagree!
:)
125gJoe
01-05-2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by OrionGirl
Do you think fish get sick/stressed everytime there's a rain storm?...... Rainstorms do not 'replace' or add 25% to a lake...
I'm just cautious about the temps. From most of what I have read and heard here about it, it's a good thing to keep the temps very close to the same.