New to SW so I have some newbie questions

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Lazersniper

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Mar 9, 2004
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Hello saltwater world. My mom really likes saltwater fish as do I. So I convinced her to start purchasing things needed for a sw tank. I have a 20 long that I plan to start out with. This is just a tank for me to get familiar with keeping sw fish and the sorts. I have been keeping fw fish for a while but would like to start on sw as well. My plan is to eventually upgrade to at least a 90 gal.

In this 20 long my plan is to start out with a pair of clowns and a conch. My mom loves the shells. I have read through some of the 'newbie' threads here and I understand half of it, but the other half just shoots over my head.

I have a few questions on the set up of the tank. I know that the tank has to be cycled and what not. Right now I"m confused about the substrate, and when to add the salt. The guy I usually talk to a the lfs gave me some advise. I want to run it here to see if there is anything else I should know or if this is 'good practice' as I like to have many sources. I trust him as he's usually pretty consistant when compared to internet resources, as well the health of his fish is always very very good.

He told me that I should use an undergravel filter along with a hob filter. He also pointed me towards 'ARAG-ALIVE!" ARGONITE REEF SAND. It's a bag with what looks like small shells/shell particles and water. Is this a good start/idea? Wouldn't these small peices hurt/cut up the conch? I would like a sand substrate but I would like the very fine sand like at the beach. If I go to the local hardware store and get argonite sand wouldn't that go through into the ugf even if I mixed the two?

When do I add the salt? Do I add it in the water right away? before the sand? after the sand? after the cycle? Sounds like a no brainer but I just want to be sure.

Are the nitrifying bac. the same in sw as it is in fw. IE if I add some gravel from my fw tanks will it speed up the cycle? Should I wait for algae before I add anything to know that it's stable or should I trust the specs of a complete cycle?

Right now I have the following items to start with.

Tank
ugf
Arag-alive
hydrometer
red sea salt

still to get:

Proper hood
hob filter
heater

Is there anything else I need to get at this moment to cycle the tank? What other equip. do I need once I want to start adding the fish and the conch? I don't plan to add any LR or anything of that sort until I know enough to handle this tank. If this tank is a succuss I will eventually upgrade to the 90(+) gal tank and try some LR assuming I have the funds.

At the moment I have done nothing until I can get the hood, heater, and filter tomorrow. Any information would be greatly apprecieated. Thanks so much in advance. If I have made any mistakes already please feel free to correct me.
 
before I forget... how would I keep the sand clean??? Or will the conch do that for me?? I wouldn't have to vac it like I do with fw gravel do I?
 
First, there are many ways to do a tank. A lot of them can be sucessful. Second, your LFS only stays in business if they sell stuff and make a profit. I personally would not reccomend the LFS method. Third, chose one method and follow it. I've seen a lot of problems because people tried to take part here and part there and they do not always work out that way.

Here is how I would set up the tank given that this is a Fish only with Live Rock (FOWLR) tank. Buy Ply sand at Lowe's or Home Depot. A 50 pound bag cost about $3.00. It will do what the LFS expensive sand does. It just may not be the color you want. I put the Base rock or LR on the bottom of the tank. I then pour the sand into the tank around and over the rock till it is atleast 3 inches deep. I them put the heater in the tank hid by the rock ( not plugged in yet). I mix my salt into water in a bucket; stir it up till you feel no salt on the bottom and pour it into the tank over the rocks. Do more Buckets till tank is almost full. This will move the sand so it fills in better around the rocks. I hang my Emperor 280 Filter on the back of the tank and Start it and plug in the heater at this time. The tank will now have to cycle. You have to have patience and let it. If you do not see the amonia level start to climb in 2 or three days you will need to put 1 Shrimp ( fresh or frozen from the grocery store) in to help the cycle. Do you understand the Cycle? If so when the cycle is done let us know and we will take you the next step. It can take 6-12 weeks to get a tank ready for fish.

Ray
 
He told me that I should use an undergravel filter along with a hob filter

how would I keep the sand clean???
Click to expand...
When I set my first SW tank up in the 1980's, HOB + undergravel was the way to go. I put the two phrases together in the quote because they are related. If you do the UGF, then you will have a lot of work vacuuming it to keep it functional and the sand not covered with red slime algae. I have done that experiment several times. A conch simply won't do the trick. If you follow the method that Ray suggests, and use live rock and sand as your filter, the tank will actually be a lot easier to keep clean.

Depending on your tastes and pocketbook, you can either go with a HOB filter, as Ray suggests, or a HOB protein skimmer.

The conch will be quite happy digging in the sand. You can add the Arag-Alive shells and stuff won't bother the conch, if you want to add some to the playsand.

By the way, your stocking plan sounds good. A pair of clowns will be happy in a 20 with a conch. In addition, you will probably want to have a collection of snails, hermits and other little creatures to help keep things tidy.

Keep the questions coming.
 
ok here come more newbie questions

'Base rock or live rock' -- What is it and what does it look like? I think I have a misunderstanding of this word. To the outside person who has never done any sw, 'live rock' is like coral. I'm assuming it's a completely diff thing. Is it those larger rocks that have the tiny holes on it? or is it like a gravel type thing? if it is the larger rocks how many will I need?

mogurnda- ok so skip the ugf and just use the hob? How does sand and the live rock act as a filter? How does not using a ugf make it easier to clean? If there is a link that you could point me to that will explain all this to a newbie... assuming that it's newbie friendly it would be greatly appreciated.

This is I think the part that confuses me most. The substrate. ok So I first put in live rock, then the layer of sand, then the arag alive correct?? Then all I would need is a hob filter correct?
 
Base rock is dry rock that is very porous. Live rock is rock that is very porous, and in water when sold, so it is colonized with the beneficial bacteria that filter your water (search on the nitrogen cycle--bacteria are part of this, and hosting them is a big part of filtration) as well as good algaes and critters (copopods, snails, crabs, and sometimes a few small corals). This rock sits on the sand, so the fish can swim around, hide, etc, in the nooks and crannies, and so you can see all the cool critters (they are cool, really!). The rocks are bigger than gravel--anywhere from fist sized and up. They are sold by the pound, and you'll probably want 1-2 pounds per gallon in your tank--anywhere from 20-25 pounds will work just fine.

For setting it up--I like having base rock in the sand, to make a stable platform for the live rock. So, put in a rough layer of base rock, such as lace rock. Pour the sand/aragonite on top of this. Add water (pouring into a bowl set on the sand, so it doesn't stir up the sand will help). You can prepare the saltwater first, or add the salt directly to the filled tank for this initial time. Bring the tank up to temp, and cycle (fishless is my preference!) to establish the bacteria. Once ammonia and nitrites drop to 0, add cured live rock--wait for 3-4 days, testing for an ammonia spike, then add critters--fish, crabs, shrimp, the conch, etc.
 
Re: ok here come more newbie questions

Originally posted by Lazersniper


This is I think the part that confuses me most. The substrate. ok So I first put in live rock, then the layer of sand, then the arag alive correct?? Then all I would need is a hob filter correct?
Click to expand...

You do not need the Arag Alive. The LR does the same thing, so why pay extra for it.

After the cycle you will get a clean up crew and detrivores. They are life forms that help your tank stay cleaner and healthier. With them there is no need to clean the sand. Cleaning the sand is actually detrimental.

Ray
 
hope i'm not thread-hijacking here... But since we're talking about Arag-Alive, what does it do exactly? I saw a bag of it at petco and it just looked like sand and saltwater in a big plastic bag for about $30
 
Originally posted by ben72227
hope i'm not thread-hijacking here... But since we're talking about Arag-Alive, what does it do exactly? I saw a bag of it at petco and it just looked like sand and saltwater in a big plastic bag for about $30
Click to expand...

It containes the bacteria you get when you cycle. But even if you use it you will see a cycle. Probably lower levels and maybe quicker; But as yet from what I've heard not by much if at all.

Ray
 
ok so it goes like this right??

1 base rock
2 sand
3 salt water
4 cycle
5 live rock
6 eventually add a few critters

or does the live rock go in before the cycle?

layer of base rock-- just enough to cover the bottom??.... inches?? sand should be at least 3-4 inches above this right?

Please forgive my 'newbieness' I would like to attempt to do this right from the start.
 
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