Getting started with CO2?

[scottracy]

What do I need to safely and effectively deliver pressurized CO2. I am not much of a DIY person. I have read many related threads but I am not sure about some things like solenoids, ph monitors etc. I want to start but would like to keep the cost down.

Scott

[happychem]

Never done pressurized myself, but from working with tanks in the lab, you'd need:

tank
regulator - to control pressure to the line
needle valve - to control flow rate

There have been a few brands suggested, I think that DJLen had a brand for needle valves that are cheap but reliable and of good quality. Perhaps you should pm him for details.

[promethean_sprk]

a couple months ago there were full co2 kits on ebay for $89. All you'd need is a tank then. You can get lots of old kegerator tanks from your local classifieds.

Your best bet is to get a fully assembled system to avoid a lot of learning about npt, mpt, fpt, nps, mps.. pipe fittings and needle vales, ect.

[anonapersona]

I suggest buying online from Aquabotanic or Aquatic-store, order everything you need from one place but get the CO2 tank locally.

I got the Milwaukee All-In-One regulator+soleniod+bubble counter+needle valve~$90 (I also have a similar JBJ also very good), add CO2 proof tubing ~$10, add a diffuser or power reactor - your choice there.

The Plant Guild reactor ~$50 is great if you are OK with stuff in the tank. The Eheim type diffuser works well also, I've got one of those now and I have not had any algae issues but that can occur I've heard. I've got both. Out of tank options exist but I have not tried them. Cheapest is to use a Hagen lader ~$11+shipping but that would be from a different place. It is pretty nice to open the box and put it all up at once.

Get the tank locally, call around to welding shops, a 10 lb tank ought to be around ~$75ish filled. Ask for a washer when you get it, or several.

Be sure to have a strap of some sort to tie the tank to the cabinet or stand, you do not want to risk it falling over if the cat or young nephew gets a hold of it.


I spent about $225 for a filled tank, All-in-One, tubing, reactor. Very easy to do, required one good wrench to tighten the regulator.

I bought one set slightly used for $150 locally.

[Richer]

A barebones CO2 system will need:

1 CO2 tank
1 Regulator
1 Needle Valve
Silicon tubing
1 CO2 Reactor (can be anything ranging from a simple airstone, to a reactor powered by a pump)

Some optional things you can get are:

CO2 tubing - apparently this kind of tubing lasts longer than silicon, and lets less CO2 gas escape compared to silicon tubing

1 Solenoid - This is basically an electrical valve. You can set it up and hook it up to the same timer as your lights. When the lights shut off, the valve closes. This helps double the life of your CO2 supply, and can also prevent potential CO2 poisoning of your fish during the night.

1 Bubble Counter - This allows you to physically see the CO2 pumping into your tank.

I bought all of my stuff through stores in my city. I got my tank and regulator from a welding supply store, and I got my needle valve from a specialty valve store. The bubble counter I got was a gift from my parents who visited a fish store in another city. I think the counter is made by Sera. The power reactor I'm running is something I cobbled up from some vinyl tubing, a plastic 90 degree elbow, an Aquaclear 802 powerhead, a gravel vac tube, some bioballs and a sponge. I'm not much of a DIYer myself, but I think my system turned out quite well :).

HTH
-Richer

[bobalston]

Take a look at my web site for pressurized co2 information.

Bob

http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2

[scottracy]

-1 sms 122 co2 automatic shutoff made by milwaukee
-1 CO2 Regulator with needle valve, solenoid valve, and bubble counter.
-Dual guage regulator displays output pressure and bottle pressure. Standard American CO2 bottle connection made by milwaukee
-1 Reactor 1000 co2 reactor Aqua Medic

Found this at http://www.co2-canisters.com/ for about $180. I called several local welding supply companies and the cheapest tank was a 5lb. aluminum for around $80. Online around $50-$60 but shipping cost might factor in. I will probably go with this combo.

Scott

[djlen]

Scott -
You can get a decent system for less money than that.
If you check enough of your local welding shops(not necessarily "welding supply shops".....there is a difference) you can probably find a 15 - 20lb. used bottle for $50 with gas in it.
Most places that re-fill bottles "swap" them. In other words, you come in with your empty bottle and they give you a full one, which will be used, for anywhere from $9 - 20. And most of the time it won't be aluminum.
There is no point in paying for a new bottle, especially a shiny new aluminum one for more money and then trading it for a used steel(not so shiny) one when you go to fill it.
There are places that fill on site, but in many cases you have to wait to get them filled.....sometimes for 5hrs....sometimes a day or two. While you're waiting for your gas, you pH is going up and the CO2 level in the aquarium is going down. Better to go in, set your oldie on the counter and pick up a full oldie and go home without losing a beat.
Just recently, I was looking for another bottle. I called around and found a welding shop that had an old 15 pounder with approx. 12lbs. of gas in it which I bought for $50. Look around before you drop more bucks than is necessary.
Here's a link to a needle valve that I've used for years and find them to be excellent:
http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=MNV-2
If you buy it from Clippard through the mail it will cost you almost $20 with shipping. If you click on Clippard's Distributors list on the left they will give you the addresses of a place local to you that will sell you the valve for $4 - $5. Hmmm.....the choices!!!
I also have years of experience with this regulator:
http://rapidswholesale.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=9T852
It's a nice reg. for the money.
Add to that a power head like the Aqua Clear Richer refers to a in his response, for a reactor, and some CO2 resistant tubing, and you're in business.

Len

[bobalston]

Last time I checked the clippard valve was $10-11 direct = Plus shipping.

Bob

[TFo]

I'm considering CO2, but I don't want to work at it.

What about something like the fully automatic setup at DrsFosterSmith (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9933&Ne=40000&R=18847&Nao=9&N=2004+112954) ? Is this just a whole lot of overkill? I like the idea of not having to worry about the PH as well as the external reactor.

Any opinions on this type of system?

[scottracy]

On ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=118&item=3290557445&rd=1 I found this. Its an 18 inch tall tank (5lb?) and a single gauge regulator. How important is a two gauge? I called about 10 welding shops here and around Houston and the cheapest was $65 for a 5lb. full tank. What are your thoughts on the ebay item?

Scott

[Richer]

A duel gauge regulator is nice, because you can see the pressure going out of the tank, and the pressure inside of the tank. This can allow you to see how much CO2 is in a tank. However, I've noticed that tank pressure doesn't drop until the very end of the tank's life... or maybe I'm just not observant enough. A single gauge regulator only shows pressure going out of the tank. This will work in a pressurized CO2 system without a problem.

HTH
-Richer

[anonapersona]

First, you don't want to buy a tank online, the shipping is too high.

Second, I've read many times of folks getting parts from several places and then spending a lot of time trying to get the right connections between the parts. More connections, more chance for leaks.

The All-in-one types are so simple. ~$90 online +shipping and you have everything; dual guage regulator, soleniod, bubble counter, needle valve, all hooked together and ready to go. Add tubing and a reactor of your choice.

You can get a JBJ set locally from Pet City if you don't want to order on the internet. There's lots of places to get CO2, tons of welding shops here. I paid $75 for a 10 lb filled at Aeriform, on the NW side of Houston. Check home brew shops also for tanks and refills.

If you can fit the 10 lb, why get half the volume to save $10? Not worth the trouble to drive to refill twice as often.

[scottracy]

I was just out on the NW side today. I will give Aeriform a call Monday and see what they have. Where is Pet City? Have you ever been to Aquarium World? Thanks for the advice!

Scott

[anonapersona]

Originally posted by scottracy
I was just out on the NW side today. I will give Aeriform a call Monday and see what they have. Where is Pet City? Have you ever been to Aquarium World? Thanks for the advice!

Scott

There are millions of welding shops in town, just get a phone book and see what is closest. The $5 you save now by shopping around will be $5 you'll gladly spend to not have to rush across town to get the tank filled up again. Call around and see what the tank and refills will cost. AirGas is all over town, welding shops, fire stations, many choices. The big thing is to deal with someone close. Decide if you will trade tanks or buy a new one and wait to get it filled and see if they will accomodate that.

City Pet (sorry for the confusion, I get more and more dyslexic) is on Beechnut at Beltway 8. Good plants, cheap fish, best prices on aquariums. Cheap Flourite.

I stop in Aquarium World pretty often, it is close to my part of town. I had been trading in plants to them but the last deal was not good for me, I'll find someplace else.

Also, on the south side, see Fish Ranch just off the 59 feeder road on Larchmont across from Gulfgate mall(?). They are stepping into planted tanks in a bigger way and that will be a great store soon.

More central is Village Tropical on S. Shephard at Richmond near 59.

You should join the Houston Aquatic society, our next fish auction is June 27th. All things fish related.
Houston Aquatic Society (http://www.houstonaquaticsociety.org)

[promethean_sprk]

That system is way too much. Really the only issues for connections are from the tank to the needle valve. After that it's all 1/8" hosing, which is very easy to connect how you want. You just plug the solenoid into the PH controller, so that connection is trivial too.

Probably it's best to get the high pressure components in one kit, I see that for about $100. Then another 50 maybe for a reactor and 100 or so for a ph controller. Add a co2 bottle for another 50 and you've got a complete system for 100 less than their package which doesn't include a bottle.

I got everything but a co2 controller for 140 on local ebay, including a 5lb tank. The needle valve turned out to be junk, but that was cheap to replace. Of all the high pressure equipment only the needle valve is important to get quality out of. The guages and solenoid are very simple and reliable, standard issue industrial equipment. It happens that the needle valve is the cheapest part too.