Mystery Tetras

[Betty Betta]

I got the chance to get some free equipment for my new JBJ Nano Cube yesterday. I thought, wow, how great to get some seeded stuff --filter media!Gravel! Plants! Driftwood! A Rock!--to start my fishless cycling. I arrived with two buckets to get a couple of plants and some gravel, and assorted odds and ends, and was shown the nastiest opaqe dark green tank with an unhooked filter (so much for that idea, t hough I did take it home anyways). The owner had expected the employees to take care of the tank while away on business for months at a time. Right. :argh

Anyhoo, I started taking out bucketfuls of dirty nasty water, and I saw some wiggling. Two little fishies were still alive! The employees/murderers had stopped feeding them long ago and had turned off the filter, as I mentioned. :mad2

So now I guess I'm not doing fishless cycling. :sad The good part is that those are incredibly hardy little fish. So far they seem to be doing fine. I'll change the water every couple of days, and test the water constantly (My testing kit is on it's way from Big Al's).

One question on the stuff: the wood, plants, and rock are covered in algae. I cleaned most of it off the plants, but have left it on the other things until I got advice from you guys. Should I leave it, clean it off, or get some algae eating shrimp to eat it up?

I'm not sure what kind of fish they are besides being Tetras. They both have adipose fins. I'm pretty sure one is a Serpae Tetra, but the other is a tough call. It looks like a Silver Dollar Tetra but it's not eating up the plants and eats meaty flake food. It chases the other constantly; I'm not sure if it's trying to shoal, mate, or harass. It does a little wiggle when it is next to the Serpae. Very cute to see. It also likes to ride the filter outflow current, which is even more cute; it's own little roller coaster.

Oh, and I call them Jen and Ben, or Bennifer as a pair. :joke:

[LGooley]

Hi,
I have no idea what kind of tetras they could be but my thinking is that I would clean the water up slowly as to not shock them anymore. I had 2 black skirt tetras years ago that prefered the tank green, gross, stinky & nasty. When I cleaned it they would lay on the bottom of the tank on their sides for 2 days. Test the water to make sure ammonia doesn't skyrocket. Feed them small amounts as to not stress the digestive processes. Give em lots of love. Remember that they became accustom to living in a cesspool. I am sure that Bennifer will be just fine. Keep us posted.:D

[Betty Betta]

I'm not sure what kind of fish they are besides being Tetras. They both have adipose fins. I'm pretty sure one is a Serpae Tetra, but the other is a tough call. It looks like a Silver Dollar Tetra but it's not eating up the plants and eats meaty flake food. It chases the other constantly; I'm not sure if it's trying to shoal, mate, or harass. It does a little wiggle when it is next to the Serpae. Very cute to see. It also likes to ride the filter outflow current, which is even more cute; it's own little roller coaster.


Well, Ben is definately a Serpae Tetra. I saw them today in a couple of pet stores. He's what he looks like:

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/Fishpics/serpae1.jpg


And I figured out that Jen is a Short Finned White Skirt Tetra. (http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/characins2/a/whiteskirttetra.htm) aka, Petticoat Tetra.


http://freshaquarium.about.com/library/graphics/fw0005.jpg

Unfortunately, I see that they are the types unscrupulous breeders and dealers inject with dye to get neon colors. She is a pretty pink on the top third, above that spine thing or what-have-you. Oh dear. Well, she's a feisty survivor fish.

Note that I haven't lifted their skirts so I have no idea what sex either of them. But the page on About.com about them says this; "Female white skirts are generally larger than the males and have a rounder body. Males have a broader anal fin, and a narrower more pointed dorsal fin. " Hmm, I think Jen is a Ben. Maybe I should name her/him Matt (as in Ben 'n' Matt Damon)? Or Jerry (as in Ben and Jerry)? I must think...

It also says they are peaceful community fish. Right. :rolleyes:

And thanks for the advice on what to do with the cruddy algae covered wood and stone. I think I'm gonna do what you advised and leave them in for now. Bennifer has had enough trauma lately.



[Edited to correct poor grammar and sentence structure. And bad spelling.]

[happychem]

You might as well leave the algae that you couldn't remove by hand. A little won't hurt but treating the rock/decorations with bleach or whatnot will also kill off any beneficial bacteria you want to add.

You can pick up some algae eaters, but try to i.d. the algae first then buy something that a) will eat the algae and b) you want to have in your tank. Shrimp is a good call, they're neat critters and kinda fun to watch/look for. Malasian trumpet snails are also supposed to be quite useful for certain kinds of algae.

The reason I suggest these two are because they're not fish. I like to try to set up a mini-ecosystem composed of as many different levels of complexity as possible. Why? they help balance the tank. For example, I just watched my 1 surviving ghost shrimp eat some swordtail poo. What better way to keep the tank clean?

[Betty Betta]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by happychem
Shrimp is a good call, they're neat critters and kinda fun to watch/look for. Malasian trumpet snails are also supposed to be quite useful for certain kinds of algae...For example, I just watched my 1 surviving ghost shrimp eat some swordtail poo. What better way to keep the tank clean?

Oooh, ghost shrimp eat fish poo? Excellent, my LFS has a bunch of feeder ghost shrimp for cheap. Poor little mites, they might not survive for long in my cycling tank, either. At least they'll have a fightig chance. Do they eat algae too? And would a male Betta eat them?

I'm looking for a place locally to buy some Cherry Red Shrimp as they supposedly are more hardy than the Amanos, they're prettier--they'll look smashing against the black background and substrate-- and they are smaller, so their size and number won't overpower the tank; I don't want it to look infested. Don't they breed prolifically? What happens to their spawn?

You mentioned snails but I'm not so crazy about them, as I hear they also reproduce exponentially and few thngs eat them. Yuck.

[happychem]

Ghost shrimp will eat algae, but they're more scavengers, if there's something else, they'll eat that. Apparently fish droppings are better than algae:rolleyes:

I'm sure that the cherry reds will look fantastic on a dark background, but if you're concerned about your betta eating ghost shrimp, which are prodigial hiders, then something that sticks out in start contrast will likely be a quick snack. It's not such a problem, unless they're expensive;)

I've got 6 MTS' in my 10g. They seem to be seldom active, let alone breeding. But I've heard the same thing, that they breed exponentially. I was actually hoping that they would, just to increase the size of my clean-up crew.

Then I'd pick up a clown loach for snail duty.

[Betty Betta]

I've got 6 MTS' in my 10g...

Uh. What's an "MTS?" :confused:

[Betty Betta]

Uh, ignore that last post. I figured it out.

It's really early and I haven't had my coffee. ;)

[Copper]

I'm seeing a similar problem at work with a tank. My boss bought an 80 gal for her 10yr old son and installed it at the office. She expects him to take care of the tank. 1) He hardly ever comes by the office to feed them. 2) He doesn't know anything about caring, cleaning, or setting up a tank 3) Typical ADA-he's likely not very interested in it any longer.

They installed the tank with gravel medium, a handful of live plants, some decor, and 1 emperor filter unit...that's all. I would expect a tank that size would at least need an undergravel filter.

The tank cycled really bad and they lost a couple of fish, but most survived.

Currently it's stocked with 2 red tail sharks (1 constantly bullying the other) 3 bala sharks, and 3 catfish (uncertain of type).

I talked them into at least getting an air pump and some stones to improve circulation a bit...there really is insufficient planting to aerate(sp) the water.

I've taken it on myself to feed them regularly, and I'll probably spend more than one late afternoon at the office cleaning. I'd just hate to see any more of the fishies die because of the neglect of a young child.

Hopefully it won't end up looking like the tank you picked up...

[Betty Betta]

HappyChem:


Apparently fish droppings are better than algae

I thought it was funnier when you called it fish poo. :joke: (Ignore me, I have the sense of humor of a three year old.)

But I AM sorry to hear that Bettas like to eat cherry red shrimp. I don't want to imagine what seeing a 3 inch fish eating a one inch shrimp must look like. :eek: eww. And how about how expensive those critters are.
$5-7 PLUS $25+ shipping? Cripes. I should breed them and make a mint. Cha-Ching!

COPPER:

How great of you to take care of your neglectful boss's son's fish. Are you changing the water too? You are a saint. By the way, you mention getting an undergravel filter and plants. I just read another thread on the regular freshwater forum about them. The general consensus on them is not to use them, except maybe as a supplement. Here's the link if you want to read about it:

http://www.aquariacentral.com./forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1311

Rant alert :rant:

It sure sounds like another case of America's disposable culture; get something, get bored with it, and then neglect it or just get rid of it. No reponsibility. So sad to see that being taught to a kid. And why on earth did your boss put the tank in her office, where the kid can least see it and enjoy it, let alone take care of it? Kinda weird, IMHO.

End of rant.

[happychem]

Originally posted by Betty Betta
Rant alert :rant:

It sure sounds like another case of America's disposable culture; get something, get bored with it, and then neglect it or just get rid of it. No reponsibility. So sad to see that being taught to a kid. And why on earth did your boss put the tank in her office, where the kid can least see it and enjoy it, let alone take care of it? Kinda weird, IMHO.

End of rant.

I have my doubts that the number of people being classified ADD or ADHD really are, as well. I can't shake the feeling that a good chunk of them just lack dicipline and parental attention in general. Calling them ADD/ADHD is just (IMO) another symptom of our society that would rather medicate than treat. But now I'm pretty far :OT:

Betty, I don't know for certain that a Betta would eat a cheery shrimp, but they are carnivorous, I think. At that price, it doesn't sound like the experiment you'd want to go for. Try ghost shrimp, they're cheap. If they work out, maybe then invest in the cherries.

poo

[Copper]

B.B.

The tank is getting regular water changes...or will be anyway. I stayed yesterday and did a partial, vacuumed gravel, ect...

I mentioned the UGF just because it doesn't seem that 1 power filter on the far end of the tank is enough to care for an 80 gal. As I stated before, there is little circulation-improved a bit now with the addition of airstones for agitation (yes I know ya'll think they are tacky). Just seems like it needs more.

Still the tank seems to be doing well now. I haven't brought my test kit in yet to check the levels though, but everyone seems happy. It's their responsibility to get the equipment needed for the tank, I"m just caring for it with what is available.

I saw a pair of the Balas swimming up against each other and passing through the bubbles yesterday after feeding. Rather happy I think, considering they hadn't been fed for 4-5 days.

[OrionGirl]

The fish were most likely just fine in the tank. While we personally object to air we can't see through, fish are pretty adaptable to conditions that are not toxic--the tank, with such a light fish load and lots of algae, probably had very little in the way of ammonia or nitrates, and the fish were able to eat the algae in addition to the microfauna that populates green water and algae. I prefer to have a bit of algae growing in some of my tanks--means there are enough nutrients to support the plants, and provides a source of food for fish, as well as the micro fauna. So, not ideal, and certainly not the center piece fish tanks can be, but unlikely a death trap.

Bettas are safe with shrimp. They will pester the shrimp, but they do not have the mouth structures needed for eating a shrimp.

I understand people's objections to the way others maintain tanks. Heck, there are few people that I know that I would trust with my tanks. However--judging them won't change their ways, or help the fish. So, ask if they'd like help, point them towards some good books or websites.

[TKOS]

I have a betta with snails and amano shrimp. They are pretty small shrimp but the betta never really pays any attention to them. Ghost shrimp should be just fine. However, those tetras could pick at the betta's fins. Serpae are often known for their nippiness.

[happychem]

Originally posted by OrionGirl
Bettas are safe with shrimp. They will pester the shrimp, but they do not have the mouth structures needed for eating a shrimp.

Thanks for clearing that up OG. I was planning on putting a betta in my 33. I was a little concerned about the shrimp that will also occupy...

[Julia]

Originally posted by Copper
B.B.


I mentioned the UGF just because it doesn't seem that 1 power filter on the far end of the tank is enough to care for an 80 gal. As I stated before, there is little circulation-improved a bit now with the addition of airstones for agitation (yes I know ya'll think they are tacky). Just seems like it needs more.




You can easily replace an airstone with a sponge filter on the same airline; that lets you keep the bubbles and boost up the biofiltration. Sponge filters are pretty cheap, too, which makes them easier to argue for. :) I applaud you for taking a possibly unpopular stand with your boss.

:bowing: