Water Testing

[Cribbinator]

Hello,

I have a question. Can anyone recommend a good water testing kit to purchase and what the proper steps are to test your water ? I've heard you should test your water regulary and always before adding fish, is this correct ? I'm a newbie aquariumist so any help or information would be appreciated.

Thank you!

Jim

[silentskream]

i suppose you mean you haven't started to put fish in the tank.

so, even though you didnt ask for it, i urge you to go here:
www.angelfire.com/nc2/Tastytracy/fish/fishpage.html

i think that should help you get started, and at least give you an idea of what you should be looking for.

hope that helps.

[LittlePuff]

I really like Aquarium Pharmaceuticals' liquid tests. One of the most accurate, quick, and very cheap (per test) compaired to others. :cool:

Kim

[OrionGirl]

Ummm...That link is not the best source of information. Sorry, but the 'guidelines' for fishless cycling there are wrong, and lack enough detail to be at all useful.

There are several links listed in cycling sticky in this forum for cycling information and techniques.

On test kits: I prefer the liquid kits. Masters is nice--it includes ammonia, nitrite, pH, GH, KH. Nitrate can be purchased individually. The strips aren't always as accurate. For a cycling tank, KH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are important. With an established tank, nitrates, KH, GH, and pH are the ones you'll need most often. Ammonia and nitrite are seldom used, unless there's been an 'event'--fish health issues, deaths, sudden changes to the system. Knowing about your water source is also important, and you can obtain a detailed report from your water utility; often this can also be found online.

[trancecommander]

I'm relatively new to the hobby myself ... I've had my tank cycled and running for about 3 months now. I've tried plenty of testing kits and finally have settled on one that I'm extremely comfortable with ... its the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Test kit. The tests include freshwater pH, high range pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Its the test tube kind of kit as opposed to the strips. You can order it from Big Al's online and it costs only $12.99. The link for it is as follows:

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19383;category_id=3233;pcid 1=;pcid2=

If you want a brand name for the test strips ... I've used Mardell and they worked pretty well.

I personally prefer the liquid tests. I feel I can get a slightly more accurate result from those and the strips. And it doesn't take ALL that long as some people might think. It takes me literally 5 minutes to complete the tests and another few minutes to wash the tubes out.

Hope this helps!

[Cribbinator]

Thanks for the replies.

So what do I look for in the water tests ? I assume they have some guidelines and ranges to look for ? Is there something specific I should test for on a regular basis and other tests that are usually done every couples of months ? Thanks again.

Regards,

Jim

[silentskream]

they lack the detail because there's a link to tomgriffin's site which has all the details. the summary just gets the main idea out, so that one can get an idea of which options they might be interested in. but thanks for the input, i'll try to make it a little more reader friendly.

i use jungle test kits, but they're not that great for fishless cycling because of the magnitude of some of the spikes.


if you plan on doing a fishy cycle, then they would probably be fine to use.

[OrionGirl]

The ranges on most of the kits available are pretty standard. The only one to worry about will be pH. There are usually high and low range kits, and which you'll need will depend on your tank. Low range works for most tropical setups, but some areas have high pH water naturally. The high range kits are needed for many African cichlid and marine setups. My test kit included both.

In terms of how often--if the tank is cycling, you'll want to test KH initially, and ammonia and nitrites as they spike and decline daily. Testing for nitrates once nitrites start to decline is useful to see how the bacteria are progressing. Start testing Once the tank is established, testing weekly for nitrates and pH, as well as regularly for GH and KH will help you get a feel for how often and wht size water changes are needed to keep the tank stable. Once you are comfortable with your routine, testing should be done regularly, or as needed if you suspect a problem, or when you make large scale changes to the setup or stock.

In terms of the results, ammonia and nitrites should always be 0 in an established tank. Nitrates should be kept low--how low is debatable and will vary with the setup, but under 20 is great, under 40 is acceptable. For pH, stable is better than a particular value for most community setups. GH and KH--the test kit will give you an acceptable range (there are some variances in the type of reasing, so giving a set value is tough).

silentskream--that site also says that fishless cycling should take 2 weeks, which is false, and that going fishless allows you to add more ammonia to increase bacteria growth, which is also false. Increasing ammonia will not speed the rate of growth, and excess ammonia can inhibit the bacteria.

[silentskream]

you do add more ammonia than in a fishy cycle though?

so you get more bacteria.. isnt that why you can add a full bioload at once?

in addition, i've restructured the links so that they are in the title of each section instead of at the bottom of the page, hopefully that will be a little more userfriendly, and people can look at the specific directions if they're interested, but not have to read the big long thing about fishless cycling if they dont care.

[trancecommander]

If you use the liquid test kits, you basically take a sample of the tank water ... add a certain number of drops (instructions will be included in the kit) ... and wait for the color to develop. Then you compare that color with the cards that have the color chart (also included in the kit). Each color (or shade of a particular color) represents a certain level which you'll be able to read off from the card.

The strips work pretty much the same way ... you dip the stip in the tank water, wait for the color and compare it to the chart that they give you with the kit.

As far as what to test for ... take a look at OrionGirls' post above ... that pretty much sums up what you need to test for when.

During the cycling process, I used to test every other day and kept a log of the readings. Once my tank cycled, I eased off on the ammonia and nitrIte testing ... I only check the levels once every 2 or 3 weeks or so now.

Good luck !!

[OrionGirl]

In fishless cycling, the total amount of ammonia is greater than that available from a fishless cycle. However, you don't just pour it all in at once, and specific levels are the goal--while in cycling with a fish, the ammonia levels can far exceed the goals of fishless cycling if regular, preventative water changes are not done. The size of the bacteria colonies established in fishless cycling is greater than a full load of fish, but doesn't develop any faster than from cycling with fish. The benefit of fishless cycling is not that it happens faster, but that no fish are killed or injured during the process. If no seed media is used, the time needed for cycling can be close to the same, no matter which route you go. The caveat--cycling with fish means that fish must be added gradually, while the tank can be fully stocked after a fishless cycle. However, if a fishlessly cycled tank is stocked with 5 fish immediately, and then 2 more are added a month leter, there will still be a mini-cycle.

[silentskream]

so then yes, there are more bacteria in the tank after a fishless cycle than after a fishy cycle BECAUSE you can add more ammonia. and so yes, that means more bacteria grows faster, because it has more food to eat because you're not worried about killing your fish. whereas in a fishy cycle, not as much bacteria grows as quickly because there's not enough ammonia to eat, so you have to add one fish at a time or so. so it can cope with the change in ammonia levels.

it never says add the ammonia all at once. in fact, there's a link there to tomgriffins website which has the details necesary to do a fishless cycle, thats why the link is there by the summary.

[OrionGirl]

The growth rate of bacteria is not linked to the amount of food available.

[silentskream]

well then why is there more bacteria in the tank after a fishless cycle than after a fishy cycle?

[OrionGirl]

Because there is more ammonia provided over the full course of the cycle process. The growth rate has nothing to do with the final colony size.

Look at it this way. If you have 2 rabbits, and give one twice as much food as it can eat each day (ie, half the food is leftover), and one is given precisely the amount of food it needs each day, will one grow faster than the other? Of course not--they are both getting the same amount of food, and grow at the same rate. The bacteria are the same in this fashion. With rabbits, of course there is a set size they can reach, but with bacteria, given more time, the colony size can double if there is food available, right? In the fish cycle, the amount of food is limited--a given number/size/species of fish only produce X amount of waste, so the bacteria colony develops to the point where it consumes X amount of waste. The bacteria keep dividing, but those that don't get food die off. The rate of growth--ie, how many new bacteria are produced each hour--is the same for a fishless setup, but the number of bacteria that survive is greater because there is more ammonia.

[silentskream]

The bacteria keep dividing, but those that don't get food die off.

so that means that the colony doesnt grow as large as fast as it would in fishless cycling because there isnt enough food. like i said.

[OrionGirl]

:rolleyes: The growth rate is the same. The survival rate is the same up to the point where all available ammonia is being processed. There is a difference between growth rate and survival--the time needed for bacteria to divide does not change based on the amount of food available.

[silentskream]

if the colony doubles. then half of it dies b/c it has no food. it's not growing. its staying the same.

if the colony doubles and lives because it has food. it's growing.

the website is for people that dont understand anything about fish, its general, and it provides summaries of the options available. if they choose that option, they can click the link to take them to a detailed plan, and then the plan will work to their purpose. there is no need to be so picky about the difference between growth and survival, because most people see a colony doubling and living as growth, and a colondy doubling then having half of it die off as NOT growing.

if you really think its going to make a huge difference in the outcome of anyones fish success, i'll change it, but i dont see how it could possibly be a problem.

[JSchmidt]

Personally, I haven't noticed fishless cycling to be any faster than cycling with fish. I also haven't noticed a lot of difference in the amount of time it takes to fishlessly cycle a tank dosed daily to 3 ppm vs. a tank dosed to 4 or 5 ppm. Once a population of bacteria able to process 3 ppm in a day exists, the amount of growth needed in the bacterial population to process 4 ppm isn't that great, proportionally speaking.

As long as there is any level of ammonia in excess of what the existing bacteria can consume, they will mulitply. It doesn't seem to matter if the extra ammonia is in a concentration of .5 ppm or 3 ppm.


What really seems to take time is the growth of the second stage (nitrite consuming) bacteria, in part because they're dependent on the first stage bacteria to start producing nitrite. There was some talk here a while back about dosing the tank initially with both ammonia and nitrite, but I don't recall ever seeing results of that effort.


HTH,
Jim

[silentskream]

how would one go about dosing the tank with nitrite? would you just get it from another tank that is high in nitrites? thats an interesting idea.. would make for a fun experiment.

[OrionGirl]

It's a matter of accuracy. I'm not in favor of being inaccurate because it might be 'easier' for people to understand. Once you start down that road, you might as well just call it all magic.

[JSchmidt]

I cannot remember the details of the discussion about adding nitrite... I do recall considerable discussion about how exactly to get nitrite for dosing, but I don't remember if that was resolved.

Re: O-girl's point, I have to agree. The whole point of these forums is to better understand what occurs in our tanks so we can become better aquarists and to help others do the same. The more precise we are in our descriptions and explanations, the better they can be challenged, accepted or disproven. It might seem like quibbling on the surface, but I don't think it is. It's being precise in our meanings.

Jim

[silentskream]

see if this is better:


Since there are no living beings that you might kill, you can put in a SPECIFIC deadly high amount of ammonia (see link above for details) that will keep the survival rate of the bacteria much higher than in a fishy cycle, which means you can usually put all of your fish in at once.

[OrionGirl]

How about "A fishless cycle allows for the development of beneficial bacteria colonies without exposing fish to the toxic levels of ammonia and nitrites common in a cycling tank."

[silentskream]

its been updated now