mixing goldfish and tropicals

[Bugman]

I have always heard you shouldn't because of the amount of ammonia goldfish put off. But I was wondering if your bio-filter is working this shouldn't be a problem. In the tank I'm cycling any ammonia I put in is gone rather quickly. My wife wants tropicals but has 3 fancy goldfish she wants to keep too. Just thought I would ask for your thoughts and opinions.
Thanks

[tomm10]

Actually, the first big concern is temperature. Goldfish are coldwater fish and most tropical freshwater fish are warm water.

Biofilters will grow to meet the food supply so that wouldn't be my first concern. goldfish get pretty big though so you'd need a pretty large tank for three of them.

Tom

[Harry Tolen]

Tomm10 is correct; the biggest compatibility issue is with preferred temperature ranges, although their large size and considerable waste output make it difficult to combine goldfish and most tropicals as well.

What size tank do you have, what kind of filtration are you using, and what other fish did you have in mind for this combo tank, by the way?

[silentskream]

i did keep zebra danios in with my goldfish for a while, but they ended up getting eaten. zebra danios can tolerate room temp water for a little while, so i thought i would be alright with them in there. but yeah, pretty much all tropical fish need a heater, which is a big no no for goldfish, unless they're in a pond that needs a winter time heater so it doesnt freeze solid. and even then, its not heated very much.

with 3 fancy goldfish you're going to need a 40 gallon tank give or take, depending on the type of fancy goldfish. if you want any more fish, you'll need a bigger tank accordingly.

[Dangerdoll]

here's thought just to toss one in there........ I know ordinary goldfish prefer a cooler temp environment but I've read on several different sites that the fancy types prefer between 70 and 80 degrees.....now, with the higher temp....say bout 76 - 80, wouldn't it be possible to keep both tropicals and the fancies together, provided there is ample tank space and maintenance/filteration?

[silentskream]

it's true that fancy goldfish can tolerate warmer temps, but keeping them in warm temps for extended periods of time will severely impare their ability to stand up against disease, parasites, etc. so yes, its possible to do it, but your fish wont exactly be comfortable. and you'll be inviting problems into your tank.

if you could keep the temperature in the low to mid 70s (farenheit).. from 72*F to 75*F, then i think you would be alright if you can find tropical fish that can tolerate those same temps.. providing ample room, and also remembering that when the goldfish get big, they may very easily eat littler fish.

[kikuchiyo]

But why? Troopical fish tend to move differently than goldfish and aesthtically they clash.

[RobUK]

I have heard from a few people that coldwater fish gradulally intorduced to warm water will be fine, The only prob being that they can never go into a pond as there metabloisms adjust to the new enviroment with about a week or so and they think its 24/7 summer.

As aleady said major problems would be territory problems and the Goldfish eating any tankmates that fit in there mouth

Shame really as the fancy goldfish are very attrative if a little strange (puffer eyes being very strange indeed)

[aquariumfishguy]

silentskream- You said, "but yeah, pretty much all tropical fish need a heater, which is a big no no for goldfish, unless they're in a pond..."

What I am about to say is in very high regards to you, and with great respect - but that is all mis-information. It has been proven (fact, not opinion) that Fancy Goldfish which normally have swim bladder issues and digestive issues had minimal problems when in temperatures between 73-76 degrees F. If someone has come across the website which had the study, or if you know the website PLEASE share it with us. I hate telling people they are wrong without prooving myself, regardless of whether I need to or not.

Anyway, keeping any fish in a tank without a heater is foolish IMO. Goldfish, just like any other fish, require a stable temperature. We aren't talking about pond fish here, these are indoor aquarium fish. Heaters can actually prevent many diseases and illnesses from occuring, rather than supposedly "causing the problems". Did you know most problems newbie face with fish illnesses is due to A.) water quality and B.) Unstable Temperatures? Its very true.

This topic has been brought up many times, and frankly I am shocked that a member who has been here for any amount of time would recommend no heater. Sure, Goldfish can survive without a heater, but they can also survive 90-100 degree heatwaves too... it doesn't mean thats the ideal situation. :o

[aquariumfishguy]

Oh yeah... problems with tropical fish and goldfish....

1.) The goldfish will eat any fish he/she can catch and which will fit into his/hers mouth.

2.) There is a slight temperature difference: I wouldn't keep Goldfish at 80-82 degree temps year round if avoidable.

3.) These fish eat different foods, and the methods of "catching" their foods may be different too.

4.) Goldfish can be very aggressive when need be. Eating all of the food which you dump into the tank comes to mind firstly.

5.) Tropical fish which are "nippy" could hurt the Goldfish. Many smaller fish can move faster than Fancy Goldfish, which means they can often times torment the Goldfish.

6.) Yes, and Goldfish do produce much higher volumes of ammonia which some tropical fish may or may not be able to handle.

[kikuchiyo]

To further elaborate on a couple of aquariumfishguy's points, goldfish are herbivores, many tropical fish are carnivores of one sort or another. That won't stop goldfish from eating other fish or their food, but it's not good in the long run.

Fancy goldfish are slow and fragile, especially the especially freakish bubble and celestial eyes. With most types of tropical fish, even if they take the same temp (which I doubt - even bettas are best off at a higher temp than goldfish can take) they'll most likely take some damage and be unable to compete for food. The only tropical fish (other than White Cloud Mountain minnows, which are not tropical) that come to mind as being ok (not even great with goldfish) are zebra danios. I was going to add paradise fish, and though they can stand cooler water, they're really aggressive as well.

And this, perhaps, is not a salient point, but as I mentioned above goldfish colors and other fish colors don't go together. They look awful together.

[anonapersona]

Not only should goldfish not be kept with other fish, but different types of goldfish need to be kept apart. Fancy eyes with fancy eyes. Long bodies with long bodies. Round bodied with round bodied. This is because of the risk of eye damage and the risk of not competing for food.

Goldfish can be kept at 85degrees, this halts the spawning that can be a hazard to health - rough bumpsng and shoving, damaging eyes and slime coat, opening fish to infection.

See the Puregold website for info.

puregold (http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/home.html)

[aquariumfishguy]

Fish shouldn't be kept at 85 degrees period. But I agree with the general idea that tropical fish and goldfish do not mix. And kudos to the poster which mentioned goldfish even need to be broken down into groups. Comets (common goldfish, "pond" fish) could do major damage to fancier varieties... good point! :D

[Auren]

I have been succesfull in keeping Goldfish with tropical fishes, the reason is that I have an outside concrete pond (1000 liters aprox) and the shape is circular, with the front end of the pond being more shallow. I keep the temperature at 26 degrees celcius, a PH of 7.2, a pump conected to 40watt UV sterilizar and a Hagen 404 filter with sponge, bio balls and activated carbon. There is enough space for them all and the goldfish are fine, their protective coat as well as their fins are intact. I think if you experiment you can achieve unpredictible things, yet I must admit that at the beginning it was very hard do to my lack of knowledge and i dont keep very fancy goldfish like bubble eyes.

If you have the space, plenty of hiding places, good PH, and temperature where they can adapt, you have no problem, at least from my experience

[125gJoe]

Looks like good advice on this thread but, what about tank size for Goldfish? I'd say a 55 gallon might be a good 'starter' sized tank.

What do you think?

http://www.drewbrophy.com/images/merchandise/originals/large/magicGoldFish_large.jpg

[Auren]

It all depends on the amount of fish you have in the tank, if you have to many fish you can have ammonia concerns, which could be reduced by a very powerfull filter that filters 4 times the total amount of water qty in your tank. With this size I would recomend starting with few fish.

[silentskream]

sorry i misswrote that, using a heater for the purpose of HEATING up goldfish water, is the big nono. but YES a heater for the purpose of stabilizing temperature is ideal.

and also, in regards to Auren's post, i have heard of oscars being kept with Koi in very large ponds, with a heater, but that keeping them together in an aquarium, would not be wise.

[aquariumfishguy]

Originally posted by silentskream
sorry i misswrote that, using a heater for the purpose of HEATING up goldfish water, is the big nono.

Ok, but even still. We have established that not all goldfish do well in room temperature. Sure, many will do just fine, but as already talked about, some goldfish (fancies) will also benefit from heated water around 73-76 degrees. This would involve heating the water unless your home is already that temperature. I know I keep my own home at 65-68 so my heaters are always working.

[Bugman]

Sorry I stirred up such a debate:D . I am going to try to get her to give the goldfish away. I would rather have tropicals. That way she can still pretend it's her tank but I would have fish I like:D . I have never cared for goldfish, fancy or not. I know, I know, they're great fish blah, blah. I'm not saying other shouldn't like them so let's not start that.

The tank is only a 30 gl tall so I wouldn't want to mix them mainly because of filtration. What are some of you ladies favorite fish that would do ok in this size of tank? Angels maybe?

[Dangerdoll]

I love the angels but I wouldn't get more than 2 for that size of tank. Generally, the need 20+ for 1 and then an additional 10 or so per each additional angel. A few cories scattered at the bottom and a smaller pleco may be good enough... but it doesn't leave for much variety. I'm not sure about any of the other smaller fish that may fit here because I never mixed much more with the angels (provided the tank was a 30 gal) and I would worry about quicker nippy fish and the angels slow and layed back demeaner (aside from a breeding pair of course or the occasional aggressive adult).

[Auren]

I would say hardy fish like the laberynth fishes Gouramies and 1 etta (not good to keep more than one male together) , maybe some small corydoras, or guppies, mollies, swordtails.