New with Goldfish...believe it or not!

[Erynn]

Hi guys,
Since I was 12 (I am now 22) I have been keeping freshwater tropical fish. Suddenly I am VERY interested in setting up at tank with all fancy goldfish (bubble eye's especially!!! They are so cool looking!).

My question is......how big of a tank do I need to have about 6-8 of these guys? What kind of water do they like...other than cool? Are they alright with live plants...do they eat them or dig? What kind of algae eating fish can I put with them that will tolerate the cool water as well as the goldfish themselves?

Any help will be great!

[Sum-X]

You'll prolly need around 60 - 75 gallons, considering goldfish grow very rapidly... Some like to occasionally dig (mostly to find food). I'm not sure on algae eaters but, you could get some weather loaches... The like around the same temp as goldfish and will clean up the bottom pretty well.. I'm not sure on the plants, so someone else will have to step in. :D

I'm definetly no expert on goldfish, but, I HTH...
MM ;)

[Richer]

You would need a huge tank to contain 8 goldfish. Its normally suggested to have at least a 30 gallon tank for one goldfish, add 10-20 gallons extra per goldfish depending on filtration. I was at Big Al's a few days ago. They had a goldfish display tank... 4-5 goldfish in a 90gallon bowfront.

Moving this to general coldwater.

HTH
-Richer

[TJcanada]

I have to agree with Richer ... the more water the better with over filtration for Goldies. I would also like to point out that some "fancy" varieties of goldfish tend to do better in warmer water than the average goldfish.
You can check out some of the varieties here AnimalSoup.net (http://www.animalsoup.net/aquaria/goldfish/varieties.html) .

[pinballqueen]

I agree with the "more water, the better" thought. I had a single oranda in a 55 gallon at one point. Never had bubble-eyes, though. I thought they looked a little delicate for my tastes....

Algae eaters? Hmm... I had a pleco in with mine and it did okay...outlasted the oranda, come to think of it... I wouldn't get a common plec to put in a tank with goldfish, though. They're too big and messy to go in a tank with other big, messy fish. Bristlenose or arabesque are smaller and cleaner, but really expensive, and common may be all that there is in your area. You'll need to seriously overfilter if you go that route, like, double the normal amount, just to keep the ammonia in check. C.A.E.'s do okay with the cool water, but they can do some damage to your goldies(especially slow-moving ones, like some fancy varieties are) once they reach maturity, so they might not be the best bet... maybe otto's? I've never had them (hard to come by in my area), so maybe someone else could advise on that.

They will eat your plants. With a vengance. To the root, and then eat the root. And then look out at you, begging for more. I lost lots of plants that way.... (Comets are the worst, koi second, followed by fancy varieties...) They won't let apon bulbs sprout, let alone grow.... There are a few plants that they don't seem to mess with, but I can't remember what they are. Personally, I just stick with plastics (and they dig those out of the substrate...I bury floating plants daily....)


Fancy goldies are susceptible to a lot of diseases that some other fish are not so prone to.... in my experience, orandas and fantails are REALLY quick to get fin/mouth rot and cotton fungus, as well as swim bladder disorders and bloat (because they eat fast and produce gas, which fish can't get rid of quite as easily as people do....). However, for the most part, they're really tough, just like other goldfish, and can tolerate a lot after they get a little bigger than the tiny little guys they sell at the lfs (they're a little sensitive when they're little, but really toughen up when they grow a little...). Fancies do like a little warmer water than standard comets or koi, but they're not too picky. 75 is fine with them....any warmer, and they get the aforementioned fungi a little easier. I don't even have a heater in my tank anymore. It hovers around 72, and all my fish are fine with it....

Sorry about the length of this, I just thought I'd lend a little experience....

EDIT: funguses? fungi? what's the difference? (I'm my own personal grammar police....)

[Erynn]

Wow, they are WAY more work than I thought! I was thinking of getting about a 75 gallon for them.....definately fake plants.....it will have a dark bottom.....hmmmm...not sure what else yet. Still have a lot of reading to do so that I don't make TOO many mistakes with them!

My friend had a black moore in a goldfish bowl....what do you think of that? Is it cruel? He lived for only about a year.

Thanks for all your help so far. :D

[goldfish freak]

The general rule amongst goldfish people is 20- 30 gallons per adult fish. I hold to the "more water the better "philosophy as well. Some people will keep them in less water than this but this will require more maintinance with regards to frequency of water changes, filter media cleaning and gravel vacumning. Bubble eyes are amongst the smaller and more sensitive of fancy goldfish varieties, due to their eyes. If you want to keep these fish in a 75 gallon tank then I would suggest you keep only 3 or 4. Plants are sometimes possible with goldfish, since some will devour them and some will leave them alone. It seems to depend on the individual goldfish. From what I have learned Java fern and anubias plants seem to be quite goldfish resistant. You could try putting a few in with the goldfish to see if they do fine.

[pinballqueen]

Any fish in a bowl is cruel (except a betta in a BIG bowl, like, a gallon or two).

I'll agree that bubble eyes are sensitive--I've seen too many at the lfs with damaged eyes...that's why I never got one (or a blackmoor, for much the same reason).

75 gallons should be good for 2-4 of the smaller fancy goldies(celestial eyes, moors, and ranchus, etc.), but not the big breeds (orandas, fantails, etc.). I wouldn't keep over one or two bigger ones in that size. (Like I said, I had one 10" oranda in 55 gallons with a very small (2-3") pleco and had filtration woes out the wazoo....)

Dark substrate and background is good for bronze, gold, and white fish, but terrible for darker fish like chocolates and black shades. They just blend in... For dark fish, stark white or really, really colorful is the way to go, IMO. (Heck, my current tank is white sand, bare glass background on a white wall, and a single "Baby" pale gold oranda and it looks great....)

Oh yeah, do as I say, not as I do. My current tank is 10 gallons. The oranda is only in there to grow out, then he's going into the 55, once I get it restarted after the move.... (He's only 2" long at the moment....)

[Randy]

h

[Frank_Carr]

how big of a tank do I need to have about 6-8 of these guys?
125 gallons should do nicely....:D

The problem with goldfish is that they'll get big quick and outgrow starter tanks (10-20 gallon) within 6 months or so. You'll end up like me, using a 29 gallon and filtering and maintaining heavily and trying to save up money for an even larger tank.

Generally you'll see recommendations of 10-20 gallons per goldfish although there is some variation in this by species. For example, the bubble-eyes and other fat fancy breeds tend to be smaller and usually require less tank resourses than a narrow species/breed like a koi or a comet.

What kind of water do they like...other than cool?
Like any other fish, as little ammonia and nitrite as possible. Although most are pretty tolerant of poor water conditions this is no excuse to keep them in these miserable conditions. I do use a heater on a low setting during the winter months to insure a stable temp but I unplug it during the summer.

Are they alright with live plants...do they eat them or dig?
I've got live plants in with ours and they eat them, uproot them and do general tank redecoration all the time. I think live plants make the tank look better (ie more natural) even if they are chewed on. I'd recommend a hardy fast growing plant or a plant that goldfish don't like. A goldfish tank is not a place for a delicate plant.

What kind of algae eating fish can I put with them that will tolerate the cool water as well as the goldfish themselves?
You probably won't need one. Goldfish will eat some algae themselves and you can scrape off any that grows on the tank sides. I've never had an algae problem in our tank but I'm not sure if it's due to the live plants or the goldfish or both.

Avoid putting a pleco in with your goldfish. Many LFS's recommend this combination, but as the fish get larger the pleco will probably develop a taste for the thick slime coating on the goldfish. This results in them sucking the scales off of the goldfish which will make the victim vulnerable to infections and, if allowed to continue, kill the fish.

[pinballqueen]

Originally posted by Frank_Carr


Avoid putting a pleco in with your goldfish. Many LFS's recommend this combination, but as the fish get larger the pleco will probably develop a taste for the thick slime coating on the goldfish. This results in them sucking the scales off of the goldfish which will make the victim vulnerable to infections and, if allowed to continue, kill the fish.


I agree, in regards to the "common" pleco- hypostamus variety. (The regular brown-to-black guys they have for $3.95 at the lfs). Some of the smaller, more specialized pleco breeds, such as bristlenose, would do much better and aren't as prone to hitching rides on your fish. Beware, rarer pleco breeds cost much more money than commons do. I had an arabesque pleco, 1.5" long when I got it, and it cost me a cool $25. It was very fragile and only lasted a few months, though. Be very careful that the breed you go with, if you go with a pleco at all (they're not as much a beginner fish as you would imagine), is not overly sensitive in regards to water quality.

Otherwise, buy yourself an algae scraper. If you're planning on planting the tank, you won't have really bad algae problems anyhow....

[ChilDawg]

Most important thing with bubble eyes...NO SHARP DECORATIONS

[goldfish freak]

Heck, I think no sharp decorations applies to all goldfish. I don't know why they seem to have a tendency to injure themselves.

[JeffP]

Erynn,

That is a good question. Recommendations will range from 10G per fish on the lower end to building a small pond (smaller varieties only...larger varieties would require a lake).:D ) I am in the 10-30G range myself but a 10G tank is definitely too small. I would go with Richers recommendation of a 30G min with an additional 10-20G per fish.

Enjoy.