Grrrr State laws messing with what I can have in my tank

[SnakeIce]

I live in Washington. I know there are lots of missmanagement history when it comes to exotic and nonative fish in our river systems here. Accidental introductions are not the biggest source of the non-natives here.

I tried to have my lfs order some heterandria formosa for me and they get back to me and say that they are illegal to sell in Washington. What the????

I went to the Washington Fish and Wildlife website and the list of banned fish on there is as follows:

walking catfish and that whole family
carp and relatives
bowfin
all paranhas,
gars, and snakeheads

heh even the african clawed frog is illegal here.

basicly if I find out for sure that the livebearer I want is actually banned I would be breaking the law just to have one here in the state.

that REALLY IRKs me that they would out right ban something when there are responsible people that just want to enjoy a fish

sorry I just feel like ranting, I have a 5 gal tank that I don't want to put anything large in like a betta or larger. I thought I had a really cool idea befor it got shot down

[slipknottin]

I think outright bans are amusing when they ban fish that wouldnt be able to survive anyways.

But in any case, we should probably be happy that we can get the vast majority of fish we get today.

[jonah]

I've never heard of formosa being banned anywhere before. They're more likely to be eaten than to eat something else. Even the adults would be too small to eat anything larger than the tiniest fry of another species.

Maybe the lfs confused the Heterandia formosa with Gambusia affinis? Both share the same common name of "mosquito fish".

[blitzen25bm]

its worse in calfornia

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by blitzen25bm
its worse in calfornia

commiefornia. :o

maybe arnold will help you guys out.

[Dean]

Arn't goldfish a type of carp?

[Rava]

Originally posted by slipknottin


commiefornia. :o

maybe arnold will help you guys out.

I hope that was sarcasm... ;)

Here's how much he cares about animals (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=1&u=/latimests/20040625/ts_latimes/governorwantstorepeallawfavoringpetadoption)

Psssh... You couldn't pay me to adopt him if HE was on death row!

[Firsttanks]

I think outright bans are amusing when they ban fish that wouldnt be able to survive anyways

I used to think that the ban on tropicals was a little anal as well, as here in Canada there should be no chance of a tropical fish surviving the winter weather, until I found out about the nice school of Neons (I believe it was Neons, could have been danios) that were found living in the warm outflow from one of our Nuclear power plants (I think it was Pickering Ont.). Just goes to show you, nature will find a way.

p.s. Just saw the movie "Snakehead"....I almost fell off the couch laughing...what a load of carp :laugh:

[PumaWard]

SnakeIce, it's a bummer you can't have least killies, I have a couple and they're great little guys!

I also have a couple endlers, they would be perfect for your 5g tank and they don't get a whole lot bigger than the least killies. Their behavior is also very similiar.


I know how you feel about the bans, we have them on pirahna... and to be quite frank, I don't think even a breeding pair of red bellies could stand up to the natives... let alone winter.

[Dangerdoll]

Originally posted by Firsttanks
p.s. Just saw the movie "Snakehead"....I almost fell off the couch laughing...what a load of carp :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Hey Rava.... the link doesn't work.... the site can't be found.....

I don't know of any bans in Jersey except of course the snakeheads.... and turtles, but I think it's worth a look-see to find out just what is.....

(edit: addition to post, forgot I was in FW)

[OrionGirl]

Tropicals can survive outside tropical zones. Wyoming has several thermal springs that go into larger streams, and have thriving populations of cichlids, mollies and guppies. Diseases from these fish has passed onto coldwater fish, as well.

Rather than complaining about the government, complain about the people that dump their pets.

[Dangerdoll]

Originally posted by OrionGirl
Rather than complaining about the government, complain about the people that dump their pets.

true..... the ban wouldn't be set in the first place if it weren't for a hobbyist "freeing" their no-longer wated pet in the first place.... be it convenience, size, maintenance or whatever the reason for placing them in their local waterway...

[silentskream]

yes goldfish are carp.

so apparently you cant even have goldfish.

[SnakeIce]

I didn't even think about gold fish and koi being carp... about a third of the tanks there at the store where I can't get the formosas have carp in them. and I can almost garantee that they aren't triploid infertal ones:rolleyes:

talk about selective compliance

[cdawson]

Originally posted by silentskream
yes goldfish are carp.

so apparently you cant even have goldfish.

Makes sense, it's the most widley distributed fish. TONNES of people in the northwest have ponds and carp and goldfish are one of the only fish in the trade not native to the northwest that can survive in the local water up here.

Personally I think they should be banned in BC as well, as a few ponds in washington and BC have had to be drained to eliminate goldfish populations.

[Rava]

Originally posted by Dangerdoll



Hey Rava.... the link doesn't work.... the site can't be found.....



Try this one (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=1&u=/latimests/20040625/ts_latimes/governorwantstorepeallawfavoringpetadoption)

[TonyN]

Aquabid usually has some of these on auction. Right now there are two auctions for lots of 10 starting at $14.95.
Once you get them in your tank, I sincerely doubt the sherriff is going to come to your house and inspect your aquarium for illegal fish. :D

[Faramir]

Depends how you define "carp".

If you mean the fish commonly called a carp - Cyprinus carpio, then, yes, Koi are carps. But goldfish are not.

If by "Carp" you mean the Carp family, then goldfish are carp, as are danios, barbs, "sharks" and what have you.

I expect the ban is on the temperate fish Cyprinus carpio - including mirror, leather and standard carp.

[Somethingsfishy]

Hmmm I live in Michigan...where can I find the list of 'banned fish and plants' kinda stuff?

[OrionGirl]

Originally posted by TonyN
Aquabid usually has some of these on auction. Right now there are two auctions for lots of 10 starting at $14.95.
Once you get them in your tank, I sincerely doubt the sherriff is going to come to your house and inspect your aquarium for illegal fish. :D

Encouraging others to take illegal actions violates the TOS you agreed to when you joined this site.

Illegal actions--including owning a banned fish--are not a subject for discussion on this board. Please keep this in mind. As for purchasing fish online that are not legal to possess--keep in mind that the seller would be violating the law by shipping the fish to you, and could be held liable for such.

[TonyN]

Hmmm.... Sorry - wasn"t thinking too clear. Won"t happen again.

[stephenray75]

Dont know if any knows this, but most states have made using gold fish as bait illegal except for in personal ponds. This is because if the dont get eaten they grow up to be big carp that eats the local plants.

[Gambusia]

I think the question is can these fish survive in Washington State?

Does Washington have thermal springs like Nevada, Utah, Wyoming and Idaho?

[SnakeIce]

ok I found that I overreacted. a couple of specific species in the families I listed are banned well except that all paranhas are.

and I called my lfs and it sounds like it is illegal for the stores wholeseller and thus the store to sell the fish. so I can buy and have my little livebearers. I didn't know the whole story when I ranted and since it was after the store had closed I couldn't call and ask then.

[tricksterpup]

Snake Ice,
I think the main problem here is a little white lie. It is not that it is illegal to get the fish or even sell them in your state. Basically what it may sound like is that they do not want to deal or order the fish for you.
Here is the main reason why Heterandria formosa are not sold in pet stores. These guys are not a colorful fish, and sell very poorly in pet stores. Mainly Native fish fall under this category, very few are sold readily in a LFS, such as the American Flag Fish is one of the rare few.
Plus your wholesaler may have to have to order a large order of these guys and with only one person wanting them, its not cost efficiant. So since many of our fish are considered common, unattractive to the masses, many are not sold as pets in our are country. But listen to Orion Girl she knows her stuff when it comes to DNR and native fish regulations.
But if you have any questions about these fish or any other, you can contact your local DNR and ask them about them. They would give you the up and up if they are legal or not in your area. I would call and not do the web thing. Speaking to an actual person will give you more helpful information.
Now, lets talk about getting ahold of these guys. If you lived in Minnesota, i would gladly give you some but Washington is a bit away and I dont ship fish.
But what you can do is find people like me who actually raises them in your area. Try your local FISH CLUB.. I am sure you have plenty of livebearer breeders in your area that would gladly pass on some to you.
If this is a no go, try online. I purchased mine a year go online at
Sach's Aquaculture at http://www.aquaculturestore.com/
He is a great guy and he will get you what you want. This site is much cheaper than aquabid.com and these are wild caught so no inbreeding. Store is found in florida, so he readly finds them all the time. He has a special going for 20 for $24.95. And I am sure you will get more than just 20 for that price.
Now that you can get them, how many do you keep in your 5 gallon tank??
Well i have over 25 in one of mine and I hardly see them. They are that small. Keep plenty of plants and they will be happy. I enjoy keeping anacharis and hornwort in my local fish tanks.

[Captain Hook]

Trickster how much smaller are they than an adult male endler?

[tricksterpup]

Male endler is about an inch big and the females are about an inch.
Male hets are about 1/4 inch big.
These guys look like guppy fry they are that small, Females at full size look to be about the size of a small male endler or that of a small female guppy.
Now the odd thing is that the fry are huge compared to that of the female, you would not expect something to reproduce something that big.
So as a community tank, they are pretty much out. I keep them by themselves in small tanks, a 5 gallon and a pair of 2.5 tanks. These guys I have not noticed if they eat their fry, i believe they do not.

jim

[kevinfishboy]

Hey up here in ILLinois we have 2 LFS that sell parahna's and it's legal to sell them and they sell gars here to