Now what? (for those of us who didn't know about "cycling" beforehand) (Long!)

[pinballqueen]

So you've got your first fish tank....or maybe your first in a while.

Great. Let's get started. I'll bet you filled up the tank, turned on the pumps, lights, and heaters, and let the water age for a day, just to be on the safe side, then bought fish to go into your wonderful new toy, right?

Now you've gotten curious as to why you're losing fish. So you've gone online, since all the answers to all the questions are on the internet, and stumbled upon this great little forum. Then you read about this thing called "fishless cycling" that everyone seems to be so big on, all the time thinking, "well, that's great, but I've already got fish, so how do I do that now?".....

There's not a lot of information in the way of cycling your tank with fish out there, because, quite frankly, fishless cycling is the better way to go if possible. It's less stressful on the first fish that go into the tank. But, most of us didn't do it that way the first time out because we didn't know to. So, for those of us (most of us) that buy first, ask questions later, here's a little rundown of what to expect when you've chosen (or stumbled into) cycling the "fishy" way....(grab a seat and get comfy, it's a long post)

First and foremost, be prepared to lose fish. It's often a part of it. Do a little research, and if you can, trade in the fish that are less tolerant of bad water conditions. If this happens to be "all" of your current fish, well, there you go. Trade them all in, and do a fishless cycle....:rolleyes: If you've got something that is hardy, say goldfish, then you should be okay, providing you've not totally overstocked your tank. Try for one or two fish and no more for the cycling portion of your tank ownership experience, that way you minimize the potential for losses. Use the credit from your trade in to buy a testing kit, and buy the good one with lots of tests in it. You'll need one for ph, ammonia, and nitrates/nitrites at least, and water hardness tests are also a good idea, although not completely necessary to start with.

Now, what you should expect.... You're going to have an ammonia spike, if you haven't already. Your fish will gasp at the surface, and your trusty test kit will show readings that would be consistent to pouring windex into your tank. Do water changes regularly, and by regularly I mean daily, 20% at least. (Now, don't assume that "at least" means it's okay to dump all the water and refill...that'll just start all of this over...)

Then your ammonia will even out a little, and you'll have a nitrite spike. Hungry bacteria are munching away on your ammonia problem, and created this one. Once again, your fish will be quite uncomfortable, and your readings will shoot through the roof. Keep up with the water changes, you don't have too much further before other hungry bacteria take over converting your nitrItes to nitrAtes, which are removed by, you guessed it, water changes.

You'll probably experience at some point in all of this a bacterial bloom, where the whole tank turns milky white, like someone poured chalk or milk of magnesia into your water. This will usually go away in a few days, and it's pretty much the last step in this little drama. Once the bacteria have set up in your tank, you're home free. Now all you have to do is be a responsible hobbyist. Don't overcrowd your tank, don't overfeed its inhabitants, and do regular (this time I mean weekly or biweekly) water changes. Keep your test kits handy, they'll be of great use to you whenever you have more problems in the future (since we will badger you for tank specs and parameters anytime you ask us a question :D) Be patient, this process could take a couple of weeks, or it could take a month or longer. It depends on your individual situation....

Good luck to you in your quest for a healthy tank. If anyone else has a pearl of wisdom to add, feel free to do so....

[Faramir]

I do have a suggestion to add - live plants. They soften the pain considerably. A planted tank often doesn't even have a noticeable ammonia or nitrite spike.

[streaker1271]

As I have said in previous posts I plan on getting a 30 gallon tank next month. When I do make this purchase what should I do first because I dont want to lose any fish. Could you all take me through the set up of one and things I may need to read up on and learn first. As I have said at this point in time I have about 10 platys (as I have found out & I am sure there are more to come) and 2 algae eaters. Not sure about the algae eaters. Just wondering about the things I will need so maybe I can start collecting some of the things I need. Like filters, testing supplies and such.

Thanks!!

:rolleyes:

[pinballqueen]

I personally have never done a fishless cycle, which is the easiest way to NOT lose fish. This will be the method I will try when I set my tanks back up after I move...then I'll make judgements as to which method is better (I think I'll be a fishless convert after I try it....it just looks so much easier and less stressful that way...)

As far as stuff to buy: if you've already got a tank, you've probably got some of it already, but here's a list of things that are good to have when you bring the tank home....

1. A good dechlorinator. I use Stresscoat, since it's got aloe in it, it's a good multipurpose thing to have.
2. Testing kits, specifically kits to test Ph, Ammonia, Nitrite/nitrate. The other tests can come later, if you like.
3. A good gravel vac.
4. A good filtration system, preferably one larger than you are "supposed" to need for the tank. The more filtration, the better. Use a couple different types, if possible. I used a HOB Emperor and a Fluval canister simultaneously on my 55 gallon. (And even had a UGF in there, too, until I started growing live plants...)
5. Books on aquarium fish, diseases, etc. If you really want to get nose-down in the hobby and be a real geek....
6. A net of suitable size for your fish (when they're grown, not just big enough for when they go in your tank...nothing's worse than having to bare-hand catch a fish because your net is too little to catch it...I still have scars from pleco spines....)

Really, that's all that you really need until you get some fish, at which point I suggest keeping a "fishy pharmacy" with all the medicines that you might need, so you don't have to make midnight trips to Wal-mart when you look into the tank and see ich spots on your fish....

Must-haves for disease treatment (for my aquarium, anyhow, your experience may vary):

Aquarium Salt
Ich-Guard or similar medication, make sure it's safe for scaleless fish if you have any in your tank (most catfish, plecos, mormyrids, and livebearers with babies all need scaleless meds)
Fungus treatment, whatever brand. I use Fungus Eliminator by Jungle
Melafix (not a med, but speeds up the process, IMO.)

Anyhow, you don't have to have this stuff right away, but it is good to have...

Hope this gives you an idea.... everything but the filtration will run you a grand total of $100 or so (maybe more or less in your area....) Not much when you consider most of these items will last you longer than the fish will, in all likelihood....

Good luck!

EDIT: oh, yeah, almost forgot....you'll need ammonia for your fishless cycle....can't leave that out....the clear, detergent-free ammonia from the cleaning supplies department will do.

[Flohrie]

I was told never to put any Ammonia near my tank.

Whats the benifit of it?

[Faramir]

If you put ammonia in while there are still no fishes it provides a food source for the bacteria that will oxidise it to nitrite and then to nitrate. It is a process called fishless cycling.

Of course, if you add it to a tank with fish in, you will most likely kill them stone dead.

[Richer]

Originally posted by Faramir
I do have a suggestion to add - live plants. They soften the pain considerably. A planted tank often doesn't even have a noticeable ammonia or nitrite spike.

I assume this thread is up for the people who are already more or less halfway through their cycle. If thats the case, I wouldn't recommend adding live plants at all. Plant lights + ammonia = algae outbreak. It will cause you more headach. Add a million fast growing plants before you cycle. Or don't add till your cycle is complete. If you want more info on cycling with plants, just ask =)

Other than that, during a fishy cycling, change your water often. Your goal here is not to shorten your cycle, but to make your tank as comfortable for your fish as possible. This may (depending on your fish load) consist of a couple of water changes a day. I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be afraid of a little work... the lives of your fish are in your hands.
Of course, ideally, you'd want to see if you can bring your fish back to your LFS, and start your tank on a fishless cycle.

I'm gonna sticky this thread.

HTH
-Richer

[bek]

all i have is a fish tank , with fish already in of course, a ph test kit, and two cheap filters (please dont ask me what they are because i dont know)
i clean my tank usually about once a week, always 100% new water and a few drops of chlorine neutral, filters get cleaned every 3 - 4 days.
i leave the tank for about 1 hour then the fish go back in, no problems, none of my fish have died or gotten sick.

so is all this stuffing around really necessary??

:confused:

[stargurl]

Originally posted by bek
so is all this stuffing around really necessary??No, it's not. You don't need to clean the filters so often. Once a month is generally fine, and if you have two, it's best to only clean one at a time. You only need to change about 20-25% of your water at a time, and you don't need to take the fish out to do it.

[bek]

i wish i could afford a filter that only needed to be cleaned once a month!

[bek]

i have never, EVER cycled a tank, and have never lost a fish due to disease, is cycling just another way of getting amateur tank owners to spend money?

as far as i can see, all of my fish seem very happy.

[pinballqueen]

The cycle happens whether you try for it or not in most cases. As for spending money....the only things you HAVE TO buy are fish and the tank....however, it is good to have the testing equipment on hand even AFTER your tank is established, if for nothing else than diagnosing problems. About 75% of the time, fish deaths are either directly or indirectly related to water quality, especially for beginners. Testing often can help catch those water quality issues before they get bad enough to do harm to your tank.

No, it's not necessary to spend money, but just like any other pet, you've get back what you put in. For instance, if you have a dog, sooner or later you're going to have to take it to the vet if it's sick. If you neglect this, your dog might get ill and die from something that is easily treatable. Since this is not feasable for most fish, being able to diagnose diseases on your own is crucial to keeping your fish healthy. Water quality is usually a good place to start.

However, whatever works best for you is what you should do. I've just found that there are a few basics that almost everyone says works for them (granted, to varying degrees, some people are just luckier than others, I suppose....).

Believe me, any way I can avoid spending money, I do. There are some things I simply won't compromise on. Like I said, you get out of a hobby no more than what you're willing to put in.

[JSchmidt]

One of the reasons we write so exhaustively about the cycle, and our recommendation that cycles be done fishlessly when possible, is that we read innumerable accounts on this board that go something like this:

"I just got my new 10 gallon tank. The LFS person said feeder goldfish were good to start the tank with, so I bought 15. Now, three days later, my water is murky and seven of the goldfish have died. I bought some of the Proper pH that the petstore guy recommended, because my pH is 6.8 and I want to keep fish that like 7.0 What is going on? Why are my fish dying? How long until I can add that arrowana that I really like?"


I believe that a large proportion of people who become interested in fishkeeping never make it past the cycle, and they get ensnared in the "dying-fish-go-to-LFS-buy-chemicals-fish-keep-dying-buy more chemicals" cycle.

Attending to the cycle and understanding what's happening during it can dramatically SAVE people money and increase they likelihood they actually get to enjoy their fish. Who could find anything wrong with that?

This is one of those cases where even a little bit of knowledge can go a long way.

Jim

[tyler]

Originally posted by JSchmidt
I believe that a large proportion of people who become interested in fishkeeping never make it past the cycle, and they get ensnared in the "dying-fish-go-to-LFS-buy-chemicals-fish-keep-dying-buy more chemicals" cycle.

i think you've got something here jim. i wonder how the spike in spending correlates to the ammonia spike...

i'm also guilty of having never fishless cycled, but i tend to stock extremely slowly which i think has been saving my *** on a routine basis.

[pinballqueen]

Originally posted by tyler


i think you've got something here jim. i wonder how the spike in spending correlates to the ammonia spike...

i'm also guilty of having never fishless cycled, but i tend to stock extremely slowly which i think has been saving my *** on a routine basis.

I have never fishless cycled myself, mainly because I am impressively impatient when it comes to my tanks, and partly because I've never had a completely new setup, rather, I've been upgrading constantly or moving fish around since 1990 or so...

I don't think cycling with fish is anything to be ashamed of, if it is done in such a manner as to keep the little guys as comfortable as possible during the transition from "new tank" to "established tank". Stocking slowly and being right on top of the water changes is the best way to go about that. Fishless is better, but if done in a humane manner, fishy cycling is, after all, the way most everybody does it, even now, in the age of the internet, where we can read up on it first....

On a side note, I will be trying a fishless cycle on my next project, just to see which method I prefer. Can't knock it if you haven't tried it, I guess...

[Luca Brazzi]

Here, here pbq

[FishmasteR2002]

I have never fishless cycled either. I haven't lost any fish due to this(some fish got eaten, neon tetras 6). I am going to try it on a 10G that I want to get.

[gidget21]

never did the fishless cycle myself but its interesting stuff i must say. hmm this is the first time i ever heard of it.

[caz]

i have never done a "fishless cycle" but i do strain out my old filter into my new tank, and when i do decide to take fish out from one into anther, a LFS told me to put all my old gravel into a nylon and dangle it in the new tank for a little while. is this worth it? i have had an oscar for 3 years, and my standard of cleaning his tank was always dumping out all the water, rinsing the gravel, and putting new in. not untill a few months ago, when i became more of a hobbyist did i do the 20% changes a week, and only vaccumed up a little bit of the crap on the bottom. anyways, im i never heard of fishless cycleing untill i read this post, my LFS always told me to add some anti chlorine stuff, and let the tank run for 48 hours. so what im asking for is help! i set up a 55 gallon tank a few (4) days ago, and i have 3 zebra danios, 2 phantom tetras, and a dwarf gourami. 15 gallons of the 55 came from my other tanks, i even took my filter( the filter of the tank which the fish are coming from) and rinsed it in the water. so should i just keep changing my water a few times a day? like 10 to 15 gallons? and vaccum out the gravel a little bit each time?

[Tim Bo]

I always fishless cycle new tanks and have done so ever since I learned of it. One of the originators of the fishless cycling method has written an account of the concept and implementation of the cycle if anybody is interested:

http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_Web/fishless%20cycling.html

And some others :
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/cyclingarticles.shtml

[Awestralian]

Ive never fishless cycled freshwater tanks either.
Ive never lost a fish in the 'cycling' period - nor did they ever look stressed or unhealthy - quiet the opposite actually.
I have never dumped heaps of fish in straight away though, i always stocked slowly - 2-4 fish (depending on size) weekly or even fortnightly.
Good water changes, and keeping an eye on the PH is all ive found neccessary IME.

[fishdude]

I'll bet you filled up the tank, turned on the pumps, lights, and heaters, and let the water age for a day, just to be on the safe side, then bought fish to go into your wonderful new toy, right?

Now you've gotten curious as to why you're losing fish. So you've gone online, since all the answers to all the questions are on the internet, and stumbled upon this great little forum. Then you read about this thing called "fishless cycling" that everyone seems to be so big on, all the time thinking, "well, that's great, but I've already got fish, so how do I do that now?".....
BY: Pinballqueen


Thats exactly what I did! And now I am trying to save the rest of my fish from dying (if you want details see my thread NEED HELP!)

[Mgamer20o0]

when adding the water do you put the cleaning chems in? i dont think you add the cleaning chems when the cycle is complet. but what about before?

[anonapersona]

Originally posted by Mgamer20o0
when adding the water do you put the cleaning chems in? i dont think you add the cleaning chems when the cycle is complet. but what about before?

what "cleaning chems" are you talking about?

do you mean the dechlorinator that is added to the water being added to the tank or to the tank before or as the water is being added.

Read the lable of the product, some suggest to add to water before adding to the tank... particularly when trating for chloramines I think. Others say works instantly. when in doubt contact the manufacturer, some have internet sites and email contact info.

[micheline905]

Some weeks ago my tank was so-o-o-o green, you couldn't see you hand in it. I had some GIANT Jag cichlids living in it. Then, all of a sudden-within 48 hours-the tank turned crystal clear and has been that way ever since. What do you think the change was? Any takers!?

[Luca Brazzi]

When you find out let me know...

My water isnt very green, but it does have a tint to it...

Im trying to reduce the amount of light it gets.

[Mgamer20o0]

i was talking about the dechlorinator stuff. do i add it before i start cyceling? what about when i am done cyceling do i also add it when i do the water change?

[PumaWard]

Add it before cycling.... the chlorine may kill your beneficial bacteria.... defeating the purpose of the cycle.

[rich]

you can add the dechlor before you cycle or you could just let the fill it up, turn everything on and let it go for a day to let the water age, then add your seeding material and start the cycle. ive also asked about adding dechlor at the water changes and people have said yes to it. i guess the adding of chlorinated water to the cycled tank can reek havoc on the bacteria, and fish.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

Hi! um, I have a 29gal. tank whcih I set up 2 days ago, and the water is conditioned and ready to go. I did a sample test and all tests showed 100% perfect. I consulted some people to see if this was actual cycling, and they said no. so, now i'm coming here to ask "how do I actually start cycling?" that's the only bad thing about this post, because it doesn't EXACTLY tell you how to start your cycle. Just a thought. Can you help me? This is my 1st time cycling because I didn't cycle my 200gal. with my oscars inside... and they're perfectly fine right now... :confused: Well, so can I please get help?

[SimonWoodstock]

I read you post in the other forum and i saw your post on this thread too, so i thought i would throw my 2 cents into the mix. I'll probably get a millions responses back saying how wrong i am but this is what i do to get a tank cycling.

Go out somewhere and buy you some feeder goldfish or guppies or something. Feed them good and keep them in there for a few weeks. Once your tank is cycled, just take out the feeder fish and toss em into your oscar tank and let them take care of em. Then go pick you out a goldfish and put him in your tank.

I have never really had any expensive or delicate fish, i always decided against it thinking i will just kill the fish and i have never had any goldfish before either so i dont know if it will work.

I hope this has helped you out some, but if you want to understand the cycling process more search the internet and read up on it before you put any fish in there.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

uh... How do I start the cycle w/ ammonia?

[Slappy*McFish]

Actually, you >did< cycle your tank with Oscars. You just did a cycle with fish as opposed to a "fishless" cycle.

http://www.aquamaniacs.net/cyclingsafelyfishless.html

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

I bought Bio-Spira today... I already poured it in my tank. It should be done in 24hours! :D

[Karlsbad]

This is the first post I've seen that reccommends changing any water during the cycle. Others say that will only prolong it. I'm on day 16 in my 20 high with a 3" Oscar and a 3" catfish. I have a penguin 125 filter with a bio wheel for up to a 30 gallon which isn't as oversized of a filter as I wish I'd gotten. On day 7 there was thread algae all over the glass and we called an aquarium place who said to clean it because it would hurt the fish. After cleaning the glass and vaccuuming the gravel I had to do about a 25% water change and change the filter(cause it was coming out the inlet which the manual for the filter says is the time to change it, and the bio wheel had all but stopped turning).

The water hasn't gotten very cloudy yet, and there have been periods where the Oscar has panted at the top of the tank but now he's acting happy and he's even grown noticably in this period. I will get a test kit tomorrow, to be honest the reason I haven't yet is because I am under the impression I have to ride it out and I already feel like a ******* for doing it this way(lost my pleco) and I'm worrying about the little guy enough as it is if there's nothing I can do about it.

My question is, what's all the foam/bubbles at the top of the water that otherwise looks nice and clean? At one point for a few days I think around days 5 to 9 the water smelled noticably noxious and this foam stuff did in particular so I was skimming off big the biggest collections with the net and leaving the hood open in hopes of letting ammonia vent(which may be stupid lol but when I would walk up and open it the smell was strong but when I left it open it was lessened). He definitely doesn't want to eat near the bubbles which aren't thick, just like one layer if that makes sense.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

hmmm..... wierd...

[funkifish]

Fishless cycling is the way to go, heck i fishless cycled my bettas little tank! If you are impatient and have an already setup thats been running for a long time take some of that tanks gravel and put it in some hose and let it hang in your new tank. It will help grow the very much needed bacteria. I didnt want to fishless cycle but i am doing it right now, I'd rather be bored than have fish die.

[pharoh08]

wow i cant believe most of you have never done a fishless cycle, its not hard, and you dont need amonia , simple fish food works just fine, im not actually sure most of you even understand what a cycle does. if you dont let me know ill make a post on all the details includig specific instructions, i might just do that any ways

[pharoh08]

by the way , do you guys know what a fishl cycle actually does to the fish. its pretty much the same thing as amonia poising , your pretty much putting your fish into a tank full of amonia, which burns their gills and makes it harder to breath , and this is what normally kills them, i f you do it right with a fishless cycle you can add fish in as little as 2 weeks , if you add them slowly. And if you dont have the patience to wait then you either care more about yourself than you pets or you just plain dont care.

[GoLdFiSh_GrL]

for your information we DO know what cycling is all about. What do you think we are, children? :rolleyes: :p

[OrionGirl]

This is no longer goin in a helpful direction.. If you are looking for info on fishless cycling, go to one of those threads. This thread is get you through a fish cycle without deaths (and dumping a handful of goldfish in doesn't qualify).

I'm locking this thread to it does not accumulate more off-topic posts.