I need some help.Are there any chemist in the house?

[rockhead44]

I am usually giving advice but today I need some.I have been keeping fish for many years and consider myself wise at that but the plants drive me nuts some time.I am tried of putting them in and at some point pulling them out and going and getting more.I do have plants that live a very long time and do well for months but then one day something happens and they start dying.I would like to get a grip on this.So he is my situation I have a well planted tank that has been established for some time(about a year)It has been very stable and maintained consistently(water changes,lighting filters)The ph is usually 7.0 solid and temperature at 78 degrees.The only changes that I have done is I added a lava rock and been using a diatom filter once and a while.I have been fertilizing with flourish liquid and some root tabs.The tank is if anything under populated Now last week I noticed that my Amazon sword were getting small holes in them(which indicates potassium deficiencies).I did a ph test and found my ph around 6 ,I did a 1/3 water change and fertilized.Now today they are worst so I did a whole bunch of tests,here are the results temp 78f ,0 iron,ph 6.4, gh 2 drops (very soft),kh extremely soft water,0 ammonia,CO2 18 drops 36 ppm,0 chlorine,0 nitrite.Can someone please tell me what I should do to correct this?I have read lots of pages on the web and don't know what I should do.Could the diatom filter be making my water so soft?My tap water is not.The swords are old plants and I hope not to lose them.Any suggestion will be appreciated.Thanks

[Tempest]

I guess I didn't quite understand some of that.. Are you saying your kH is 0? If so then you need to get it up to probably about 4 to prevent pH swings. You can baking soda for that.. *Soda* not baking *powder*. What is the kH out of the tap?

[rockhead44]

Thanks Tempest for the reply,The KH test that I have is from red sea the indicator solution is Tri-ethanolamine.What I get is fill the test tube to 6 ml and add 1 drop till water turns blue as on a card they gave me with the kit.maybe there is something wrong with the test but all I get is yellow.Some where in the instruction it states that that means extremely soft water.The tap water reads the same.Could this be right?I live in n.y. I can't imagine that the water is soft.You said that I need to add some baking soda to the water ,I read about this and pick some up but I am not sure how much to use.What do you suggest.Sorry my post came out confusing ,I just wanted to fit as much info in as possible.I believe I need to bring up my water hardness up with the baking soda correct?Should I get some crush shells?Another question I have is this going to bring my ph back up alone or do I need to add something else.Thanks again in advance.

[Tempest]

Is there any local fish shop in your town who would be using the same water? Call them up and ask them what their kH is. This would tell you if your test is correct.

[a_free_bird73]

If i have read your post correctly then 0 Iron is not good... Should be between 0.5 - 1ppm and preferably at the upper end... This will almost certainly kill the plants

[Faramir]

With titration kits it the kit will usually change colour to the finishing colour (i.e. blue) if the reading is 0. In other words, it would go blue on the first drop. If it stays yellow (the starting colour) then either the reading is very high indeed or the test isn't working right.

[rockhead44]

Thanks for the replies,I will try to get the iron up and I guess i should purchase a new kh test before added anything else.I will keep you updated.Thanks!

[carpguy]

If the KH test turns to the End color with the first drop, then you have extremely soft water. Mine did this and I live in… NYC. If you have no KH and a low pH then the CO2 is not 36ppm, but I think the CO2 tests are generally a bit dodgy. I raised my KH to about 2 and my pH to about 6.8 by adding a small bag of crushed coral to my filter. If you're in the City, the KH test is probably right. Very soft. (Outside NYC water system can be a completely different story, even if you're very nearby).

[wetmanNY]

I'm another New Yorker with the same great soft water! I stabilize pH with a little crushed coral in the filter. A 10-gallon tank is quite stable (pH 6.4-6.8) with just an escargot snail shell dissolving (it takes about a year).

Low buffer means most of the carbon is free as CO2, not locked up in carbonates.

Iron is scavenged by plants beyond what they need. Instead of adding iron (it's already there, but as insoluble ferric oxides) get some chelators into your water: peat water, "blackwater extract" or-- my own foolishness-- a cuppa green tea (no sugar thanks).

Try fertilizing just with potassium. I use potassium chloride myself: "Nu-Salt" in the diet aisle. Others swear by stump remover, potassium nitrate. Your fish provide N, your flakes provide P, you add K-- and Croton Aqueduct carries all the boron, vanadium and titanium you'll ever need!

[rockhead44]

Thanks everyone for the replys.I tried to pick up a new kh tester but could not today.I am leaning on the fact that my water is soft like everyone else in n.y..Wetman if I was to put in the nu-salt how much do I need?Also I am going to get some crushed coral and add that too.I got home tonight to find that my three long sword plants are just about gone.I am going to cut them down and hopefully they will come back.What ever is wrong with my tank has not affected the rest of the plants just the swords.I guess they can't take the water chemistry as it is.Thanks again.

[rockhead44]

Should I use baking soda to rise the ph?If so how much should I use?The ph is at 6 now.I don't have any coral but I have baking soda and some of the proper ph 7.0 stuff .Which I read is not good for a planted tank.What do you all think?I need to rise it.Thanks again!

[a_free_bird73]

pH is not really an issue with plant growth provided that you don't have a very highly lit tank with CO2 injection. Adding a chelator will almost certainly not make Iron available. Once Iron is oxidised it can not be reversed except chemically or biologically in oxygen defficient zones.

I have had very similar issues to what you are describing and I would suggest you look very carefully if your other plants are growing... Sword plants show nutritional deficincy in ways that are different from many other species partially because they are root feeders and hence they respond in a delayed fashion to fertalizers and show deficincies quicker than other plants.

I use my own fertaliser mix and have experimented over several months of different formulations. I have very soft water (~1 kH, GH) which tends to be a major problem because commercial fertalisers were not fomulated for such soft water.

Typically I have to add substantial amounts of calcium & potassium and a little bit of magnesium. I also add a mixture of none chelated trace element mix with chelated Iron

I susbect that you have a mixture of Iron and calcium deficincy because commercial formulations tend to supply mostly potassium

[rockhead44]

Typically I have to add substantial amounts of calcium & potassium and a little bit of magnesium. I also add a mixture of none chelated trace element mix with chelated Iron Freebird Thanks for the response .Can you tell me what I should buy and how much do you think I would need for a 55 gal tank?I have no co2 system and my tank is moderately lit.Have been using flourish excel( organic carbon source) and Plus some root tabs once and awhile,Before that just a Kent plant fertilizer .I have just bought Flourish (comprehensive plant supplement)what do you think of this product?THANKS everyone for the help.

[a_free_bird73]

Most commercial fertalisers are fine except for supplying calcium for very soft water. Here in Melbourne/Australia, I found one shop that sells his own Calcium containing formulation so have a look around for a fertalizer that contains Calcium because it will be much easier.

The problem with Calcium containing fertalisers is they are missy to use because Calcium salts are generally not very soluble. There are a couple of ways.

Easy way:
- Get Calcium Chloride (CaCl2 or CaCl2.2H2O)
- Use 26g (0.9 ounce) initially and then 0.5g (0.02ounce) per gallon of water change if you are using CaCl2
- Use 35g (1.2 ounce) initially and then 0.7g (0.025ounce) per gallon of water change if using CaCls.2H2O)
- You can sprinkle it as solid straight in the aquarium but I prefer to make a concentrated stock solution and then add liquid
- The above concentrations will give you ~200mg per gallon or 50 mg per liter which is equivalent to 3 GH on the hardness scale and this works well for me

Difficult way:
- Sometimes getting hold of Calcium chloride is not easy or expensive. In this case I get Calcium Carbonate which is more widely available and treat it with acid to produce a milky solution mixture of Calcium chloride, carbonate amoungest other partially stable compounds. Works very well but missy to make, time consuming and a little dangerous and needs some experience but can be done if you really struggle to get hold of calcium chloride.

Hope this of help. Email me if you need to talk about specifics or more detail

[plantbrain]

For raising GH(which are two elements, Ca and Mg) in soft water:
For Ca, CaCl2, calcium chloride .......pool stores have or can get Calcium hardness products which are made of this. Ran about 7$ for 10lbs.
For Mg, MgSO4 : 7H20, good old Epsom salt. 1.29 for a 2 liter sack.

Both of these dissolve fast and can be adjusted to suit any needs. They are also cheap. Adds all three macro nutrients, SO4, Ca, and Mg.

Another items that works and is aviable from ag stores, Ca(NO3)2, Calcium nitrate if you need to add both Ca and NO3, most folks do if they have low Ca to begin with etc). Dissolves fairly easy.

For KH: you got it, Baking soda.

That's all there is to this. If you use Kalkwasser, you can use that also for alky and Ca GH part.

Regards,
Tom Barr