Fluval 304 continuous running

[Faramir]

My 304 on my 55 gallon Mbuna tank has been running now for over a year without any drop in flow. Is this a record? Should I break it down and clean the mechanical filtration media anyway?

[125gJoe]

Absolutely .

[Sumpin'fishy]

Definately clean it out. And start doing it more often too, IMO! Your filter's flow rate dropping is probably the least of your worries. Even with a prefilter on the intake some waste particulates get through. These break down slowly by the bacteria. Even if you clean the intake weekly your canister will eventually turn into a nitrate factory. The bacteria will definately break the stuff down but the end result is nitrate! This too is bad. I don't know your experience with fish, so I'm trying to explain the basics. You should clean the waste off your mech filters about once every 3 to 6 months if you have a prefilter. More often for no prefilters.

[Tyler718]

I would hate to see the inside of that canister. I clean mine about every 2 weeks. 4 weeks at the most. It is pretty dirty, so I would suggest clean and more often.

[rus]

most likely you are getting a lot of bypass in the filter. the water is going to flow through the path of least resistance. once your media is clogged the water will just bypass the media showing you not much of a loss in flow. a year or 2 back i bought a used tank from a guy that had the 303 running for a year without cleaning it when i went to look at the tank to buy it the flow out of the filter looked great but when i got it home and took it apart it was the most nasty filter i have ever seen or ever want to see again.

[Richer]

The purpose of most filters are to be nitrate factories. There's nothing wrong with your filter pumping out lots of nitrates. Thats one of the main reasons why we do frequent water changes, to reduce nitrates. If your filters (I'm referring to the conventional ones) aren't producing nitrates, I might be slightly worried. If you have excessive nitrates in your tank, your tank has a problem, not your filters. Either your tank is excessively stocked, or you are overfeeding, or a combination of the two.

That said, I agree... clean out the mechanical portions of your filter often. Add a prefilter to your intake to reduce on the amount of times you need to clean out the insides of your filter.

HTH
-Richer

[rus]

but wont the gunk in the filter make it produce extra nitrate that it wouldnt normaly produce?

[Faramir]

Pretty clean inside when I had a look. The way these 40x series are designed it's pretty hard for water to bypass. In my other tanks (planted) plant fragments do occasionally clog the sponges and the flow is dramatically reduced.

The issue of the particulates trapped in the filter did cross my mind after I'd posted.

But on the other hand, conditions are good, everyone's happy. Must be the water changes.

[Sumpin'fishy]

Uhmmm. I actually have never disagreed with anything I've read from you before, Richer, but this one I definately disagree with! With all due respect for your experience (which I've seen proven repeatedly), I DO NOT believe that our filters are meant to produce nitrates. What the ARE meant for is to remove particulate matter from the water column BEFORE they fully break down into nitrates. They are meant to separate the gunk from the water, plain and simple. If you didn't care about this stuff breaking down, then there is no reason to have a mechanical filter at all (except for water clarity). Biological filtration can happen without filter media!

I will point out that SOME breakdown of particulate matter will happen within the filter media, but this should be kept to a minimum through good cleaning maintenance. This is less of a problem for you (with planted tanks) since the plants will uptake some, if not all, of the nitrates produced. But in Fish Only tanks, this can be a serious water quality problem. This being said, I do weekly 50% water changes with filter pad rinses (vigorous) on my FO tank, and my nitrates stay between 5ppm to 20ppm (pretty good for large/messy cichlids).

Either way, I don't think it's a good practice to go long periods without regular cleaning of any mechanical equipment (fish or non-fish related), and I'm glad to see you agree with that! Just for the record, I actually believe that's the first time I've disagreed with you :D

[slipknottin]

um... doesnt matter if filters catch it or not. If its in the water column its going to break down one way or another.

Filters just put it in one place so its easier to remove.

There usually isnt much need to do frequent filter maintence, as water changes are cheaper than most filter media we use. Maybe if you were using RO water, or other more expensive or more difficult to obtain water you would need to be more concious of filter maintance.

[Sumpin'fishy]

I agree, Slip, that for the average aquarist it's not a problem to just change water more often and forget about rising nitrates (which will invariably happen to some degree). Some AC members have stated that they have up to (or over) 50 aquariums....WOW. Their water bills have got to sky-rocked:eek: This of coarse, isn't the case for most of us, though.

I have heard from several members that it's tough to keep their Nitrates lower than 50ppm in large cichlid tanks, even with weekly water changes. I believe that more effective cleaning of filter, gravel, and less feeding and crowding can all be applied to get these levels into reasonably low levels. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but I keep my levels <20ppm at any given time. I'm not a fanatic for cleaning either, just vac the gravel well while changing 50% of my water weekly. I also remove my HOB filter pads and vigorously scrub them with my hands under tap water. I don't replace mine more than maybe once or twice a year (when they fall apart). I also have a prefilter on my Magnum HOT that I rinse well every week. I'll only clean my HOT mechanical sleeve maybe once every 3 months. There will be some slight buildup but no large particles like the prefilter will accumulate.

Like I say, I agree that water costs aren't a HUGE problem for most of us, but cleaning my filter pads and prefilter take maybe 5 mins/week and cost nothing. This adds to water quality which may seem minimal within a week, but they slowly add up (50+Nitrates). I just don't agree that "The purpose of most filters are to be nitrate factories. There's nothing wrong with your filter pumping out lots of nitrates." Nitrates are harmful in high quantities, just less so than ammo or nitrites (as most of us know). Richer and I both agree than he should add a prefilter and clean out the filter guts fairly frequently though! (Every few months at least). He should clean the filter insides more frequently if no prefilter is added, though! This is all my opinion, though:)

[slipknottin]

Oh i agree 100% with you. Im a huge fan of removing as much waste on my own as possible and doing smaller water changes.

There are just plenty of people that think doing water changes is easier... maybe for them it is...

[Rocketman]

If some company came out with some contraption that removed nitrAtes, they would be rich in a day.

Then again, tell me if this would work:
Take a 15+ Gallon Tank, depending on the main tank size and, using it like a sump, (which I am not at all familiar with, I dont even know what they are really,) shove it under your fish tank. You could drill a hole in each side of the tank, (the left and right, not front and back,) and throw some pading, like a nylon, over the holes. Throw tons of free floating, hardy plants in there with a light. Then, by some maricle of physics, rig it so that you can get the water down and then back up again after passing through the plants which would take out some nitrAtes. Perhaps you could insert this along the line of your hose outake, that would work. Maybe add some CO2 (as long as you have live plants in the main tank,) and you loose nitrAtes, right? There must be some reason this doesnt work, becuase I am not clever enough to think of something so simple that would solve so few problems.

[Sumpin'fishy]

This is already used....they call them Refugiums. It's just a sump with plants in them. Problem is that for Freshwater, you need a fairly large planted tank below the main one to be effective. But it has been used and works well on some tanks. It's only really necessary for Fish Only tanks (like destructive, large cichlid tanks).

Another interesting idea I've been throwing around in my head is to plant the main tank and have a sump inside the cabinet. Do the main tank as normal (12 hours of lights, CO2, fully planted, etc.). Then for the tank inside the stand you could set it on a reverse schedule from the main tank lights (12 hours at night). This would stop the oxygen levels from dropping overnight since there is no photosynthesis taking place in the main tank. This would also stop the pH shifts during the daily cycle (since photosynthesis would be taking place 24 hours a day). The plants would still have a rest cycle each day also. The fish wouldn't be affected by the lights in the sump because they would be inside the stand and not shining in their tank. ........Just an idea! Anyone done this before?

[RTR]

You folks are arguing apples and oranges-

Biofilters are supposed to produce nitrates, exactly as Richer said. If they are not doing that, they are not doing their job, and the tank is in trouble - no ammonia/nitite oxidation.

Mechanical filters are supposed to trap particulates. That is their job. Frequent cleaning of these will markedly reduce the nitrate (and other pollutants) level in the tank.

The problem is that you are not differentiating between the two. Two different functions.

http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/cannister.shtml

There are multiple techniques for removal of nitrates, but we use nitrates not just for themselves, but as a measure of general pollution levels in the tank. Specifically removing nitrates and not the others means only that you cannot easily judge how polluted your water may be.

Veggie filters as suggested by Rocketman are excellent techniques for improving or aiding water quality, and will help hold higher night levels of O2 if on on reversed light cycles as Sumpin'fishy suggests

http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/veggie1.shtml


http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/veggie.shtml

Water changes are still the best guarantee of water quality, and will still be appropriate even with all the added bells and whistles in place.

HTH

[Orbitorly]

It's always good to clean your filter - if you don't the crap in the filter makes the filter run harder and wears it down more..