Gravel cleaning without removing water

[Plan-B]

I don’t run a UGF on any of my tanks so the way I see it, the cleaner the gravel the better. With this in mind when I do my weekly water changes I vacuum relentlessly. Once about 30% of the water has been removed only 25% of the gravel has been properly cleaned. I would like to be able to clean about 50% of the gravel weekly without removing more then 25% of the water. Anyone with good ideas on how to accomplish this please let me know.

I’ve heard Marineland’s Magnum H.O.T. is good for this application but I am happy with my current filters and this would not prove cost effective for me. I’ve looked into a few Penn Plax products (see links below) but I’m unsure about their quality.

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19097;category_id=2001;pcid 1=3347;pcid2=
http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19099;category_id=2001;pcid 1=3347;pcid2=

If anyone here has used these or similar products please let me know how they worked out for you.

Thanks,
Plan.

[chefkeith]

Switch to sand. Sand stays much cleaner than gravel IMO.

[blitzen25bm]

stuff your filters with some more media and just swirl around in the gravel all the stuff will float up and get caught by the filter then you just clean the filter.

[Aquarius0015]

if you have plants you don't have to vacuum the gravel hardly ever :).

i tried sand, couldn't stand it. i switched to onyx sand and i loooove it. but then again i might have more money than common sense. onyx is expensive.

[twb716]

Plan-B,

Are you using an out of tank cannister filter? If so, I have developed a valve system that will allow you to switch the intake of your filter to a separate gravel vaccuum. Total cost from Home Depot, about $12. Let me know if you are interested, and I would be glad to send you some pics/diagrams.

TB

[125gJoe]

There are air pump operated vacuums that work good. Just hook up the airline from your air pump and clean the bag that hangs off the tube. It works nicely, and is inexpensive.

[OrionGirl]

Any reason you're wanting to stay at/below 25% removal? I do weekly water changes, and if for some reason I need to do a more in-depth cleaning, I clean until I've removed half the water, refill the tank, then continue cleaning. This way the water level doesn't get low enough to stress the fish, but I still can clean as much as I need to. Changing out more water is never a bad thing.

[RTR]

Perhaps the wrong questions are being asked and answered here.

My questions would be - How thick is your substrate, and if thick (more than 1/2-1" deep in an unplanted tank), why is it so deep? Thinner substrates will hold far less mulm than thicker ones and be easier to maintain. Also, what is the particle size of the subtrate? Smaller particles (but larger than sand - say >2mm), will hold less mulm as the big chunks tend to stay close to or on the surface and thus are easier to remove. Particle sizes of 2-5mm are easy to vacuum. Larger, especially much larger, particles have larger spaces between and arount them, so build up debris and mulm faster as even edible food particles easily fall into inaccessible spaces, and at and above pea gravel size are difficult to vacuum. Sand is IMHO & IME a very hard to maintain substrate, so we won't talk about that here.

Personally, I find the air- or battery-powered gravel washers ineffective. They capture some large debris, little of the true mulm (fine particles).

[SuperD]

Hey plan-B, I'm working on a gravel washer hooked up to the intake tube of my filter box. I'll post again to let you know how it goes. I've only spent $3 at lowes for the parts, minus the gravel washer of course.

[Cearbhaill]

This is my most favorite use of my Magnum hang on tank filter- the gravel vac attachment works very well. You can vacuum forever without removing any water. If you remove so much gunk that your cartridge clogs just change it out for a spare- takes two minutes.
It is a very cheap little filter and well worth the cost.

[bartman]

I would love to see some drawings of this plan. I guess that it is mearly a diverter valve with som flexible hose attached.

My concern is if the valve leaks or worse the whole thing comimg apart. I have heard so many horror stories of external filters coming apart. Since this is on the suction side I guess the motor would burn out instead of the water going everywhere.

[RTR]

Some external filters may come apart. Thankfully that has never happened to me, but then I am an advocate of only one paticular brand, and have dozens of them, all in daily use for years witout issues.

[VitaminJ]

Ok, RTR, you piqued my interest. What brand of external filter do you use?

-sj

[125gJoe]

... ...Personally, I find the air- or battery-powered gravel washers ineffective. .....Actually, if you get the Marineland gravel vacuum you will be very pleased with how well it works! It runs off an aquarium air pump (most of us have them..).

In the picture below, you can see the trapped debris. What smaller particles seep through the bag are picked up by the tank filter - or better a diatom filter running at the time and just after vacuuming. You can use the bag over and over after cleaning it, and when you need replacement bags, order the proper mesh size. It really works well when you don't need to do a water change!

http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL332/715239/1510346/23022589.jpg

[RTR]

VitaminJ - Eheim, what else?

125Joe - combining a wimpy battery or air-powered vac with a diatom is using a Ferrari to follow a horse and buggy to poop-scoop. The big Vortex units have gravel vac as an option, if you have the unit, you just do that. I use the Whisper Diatomagic when I am doing more than a little replanting in the smaller tanks, to keep from loading up my normal mechanical filtration. In the big tanks, I'd use the Vortex XL while I work. You finish with the tank water more particulate-free than it was when you started.

[125gJoe]

Everytime I log on here, I see what's called "Help Forums."

http://www.aquariacentral.com/

It's there....

An air powered gravel vacuum does work. The proof is right there in the picture from my own 125 gallon.... Any good working filter, whether it's a HOB (hang-on-the-back of tank) or canister will take care of tiny particles in the water column.

I just want to let others know that you can clean the gravel without changing the water. I believe that was the posted Topic....... sheeezze........

Water changes are necessary....

To go on, I'm on here trying to help others...

Too bad some may think air vacuums are useless --- I know better. :rolleyes:



edited to remove 'horse and buggy' and 'Ferrari'... just didn't fit in....

[RTR]

In the same amount of time and effort, another water partial could be done, to much greater improvemenet in the general tank condition. So on that topic I am certainly one of those who consider air vacuums a waste of time and effort.

[125gJoe]

In the same amount of time and effort, another water partial could be done, to much greater improvemenet in the general tank condition. .... .But, you see that's just a partial water change. The topic was/is "Gravel cleaning without removing water"... ;) And, the vacuum does remove debris.. ;)

[RTR]

So let me clarify - my point is that the water partial with vacuuming is more beneficial than just vacuuming in the same time investment. Are you advocating a relatively inefficient practice over a more beneficial one, or simply staying that that it is possible, although it is a bit of a waste of time?

[beviking]

Perhaps the wrong questions are being asked and answered here....

I believe the original question was...

"I would like to be able to clean about 50% of the gravel weekly without removing more then 25% of the water. Anyone with good ideas on how to accomplish this please let me know. "

I agree with the practices RTR advocates and I don't believe 125Joe was advocating anything. Yes Joe, you answered the question nicely and RTR, you pointed out very relevant facts. On to the next thread... ;)

[Seaman]

I went ghetto, I just hooked up the hose from the gravel vac to the intake on my HOB filter and it works like a charm. Voila clean substrate no water change, very easy!

[NikkO]

I went ghetto, I just hooked up the hose from the gravel vac to the intake on my HOB filter and it works like a charm. Voila clean substrate no water change, very easy!

LoL! I'd do that with my tanks except i dont have any HOB filters and my filters are all "gravity flow" setups. :D

[125gJoe]

I.....I agree with the practices RTR advocates and I don't believe 125Joe was advocating anything. Yes Joe, you answered the question nicely ..... ;)Thank you.

Whew....

;)

[Swimfins]

Ok so with my aquaclear 200 filter....I can just attatch the hose of the gravel cleaner and suck up the stuff right into it? Duh? :confused:

[ryan]

I think the best investment i've ever made (especially since i got it dirt cheap) was a "system 1" diatomatious earth type filter. If I have people comming over, but dont have time for a full water change i can run that thing for 15-20 minutes and any discoloration in the water is gone, it takes the yellow tinge right out. So it definately cleans up gravel debris and mulm, i just take my hand and stir the gravel like crazy, the tank could be almost completely opaque (it never is, of course) and that filter would have it clear in 20 minutes.

They run around $100 i think, but then you also have to find a sourse of DE. good thing i work in a fish department with a 50 gallon tub full of the stuff

ryan

[Cearbhaill]

They run around $100 i think, but then you also have to find a sourse of DE.
Pool store.
It's the exact same thing used in pool filters.

[tpl*co]

and more detail on how to set up a gravel washer to an external filter :p (of course I just ordered a Magnum HOT to do the job before I read this post :sad . I have an XP3 and a penguin 330 on my main discus tank and I just put an aquaclear on my 20 gallon tank along with the sponge filters (this one gets pretty dirty with juv. bristlenoses and livebearers, boy do they poop!).

*sigh* I have a sponge prefilter on my canister, if I put the gravel washer idea on that, I'd have to tear down the filter to clean it right after, right? (same if I use my Penguin to wash the gravel).

Of course I also got the Magnum to polish my water too, so I guess it's worth it. I have to see when it comes in :).

[tpl*co]

and I've had mixed feelings about it. You have to hold the thing a certain way so the bubbles carry the junk to the bag. Trying to get the air hose to stay on the thing can be a hassle, and it won't vacuum up larger particles (or poop) that it can't carry up with bubbles. Of course the bigger the air pump and probably you'd get better vacuuming. I've also noticed that the bag must also be under the water line, tough to do in my 20 long. Hopefully when my Magnum HOT gets here I'll be happy with that :). I'm getting it for tank maintance for now, and will also use it to filter any future tanks too :).