Tentative First Nano-Steps

[Aquarius0015]

After a few tormented nights, I decided that I will go ahead with plans to set up a nano FOWLR + inverts (with the possibility of softies in the future). Who knows if I'll ever have this chance again-- by the time I'm done with vet school I'll be old and decrepit! :p I love FW, but my family has a 20g FW at home and I'm going to put my bettas in a planted 2.5 minibow, so I'll sorta have a FW tank, too. The best of both worlds.

I went to Wally World (Wal-Mart) and bought a standard 10g tank and another cheapo thermometer and net (cuz you can never have enough of those!), some painter's tape, and a can of dark blue spraypaint. Now I am going to run to Petsmart for some Instant Ocean and a powerhead so I can get mixing my SW right away. I might stop by Home Depot for egg crate and aragonite (well, I can dream, can't I?), or failing that, play sand.

Eventually I would like an AC500 as a refugium with macroalgae, but I've got FOREVER to wait until that, because I'm going to take my time and cycle the right way before playing around with things. Also I need to think about lighting, but that's not an immediate concern, either.

I called around various LFS's and LR runs from 4.99/lb to 12.99/lb (for some fancy kind that comes from an island that starts with an "M"). The average price is $6-7/lb. Also, they sell false perc. clownfish for $25 each EVERYWHERE around here (or $70 for a mated pair), so I suppose I'm going to just crank open the wallet a bit more than I anticipated.

(Get the whole intro. thread here (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=265287#post265287).)

[caz]

good luck :) keep us posted on how it goes. also, with a nano, you can usually buy smaller peices of live rock for less price per pound. atleast my lfs sold it to me cheaper than listed price because not as many people want the smaller peices. i would also go with the best stuff that you can afford.

what i did when setting up a nano was buy 20 pounds of live sand, i think it ran me around 20 bucks. and then i bought 10 pounds of cured live rock. this virtually bypassed the cycleing stage.

keep us posted and good luck

[Aquarius0015]

Well, my trip tonight was disappointing. My Petsmart carries next to nil in terms of SW fishcare. I picked up some Instant Ocean and a cheap air pump and tubing/airstone (I didn't already have a pump if you can believe it...) They had very few powerheads- and none of them were subsmersible. I was considering getting a micro-jet or a mini-jet (suggestions welcome). I was also going to get a marine test kit, but they only had two and I don't know which brand to choose anyway.

Then, Home Depot was equally disappointing. They only had Quikcrete brand playsand which did NOT say it was sterilized and was also an ugly dark brown/yellow color .Sorry, I'm a prima donna-- shades of white only for my tank please, lol. The only other sand they had was pool sand, which I bought although I might have to return it. I vaguely remember something about FW people using pool sand, so I thought, what the heck. Anyway, it felt just like regular play sand and had a much nicer lightish color. The bag said something about the particles being uniformly sized-- I hope that isn't a no-no in the SW world.

Then I got egg crate, which was easy enough to find, but more expensive than I thought it would be... I'm beginning to notice a trend already in this hobby, hrrmmm...

Anyway, I got a HUGE sheet for $10 (one size only, sorry) and I have no idea how I'm going to cut it down to fit. I don't have tools or a saw here at school. Once it's cut, maybe I can find creative uses for the rest. Maybe fashion an open-air tank top out of it-- I could run wires through it and cut a space for the filter. Then I guess I could go custom for my lighting. The only problem I see is increased evaporation-- but I assume the extra O2 would be good for the fishies (well, only one or two plus inverts), correct?

I didn't even think to ask about live sand when I made a billion phone calls today. Drat. I knew I was forgetting something. Double drat. I forgot the distilled water. Oh well, first thing tomorrow morning... ALSO, Petsmart didn't have a hydrometer... What?!?! Isn't that pretty basic?

[Indigo]

Try looking for a hydrometer at a wine/beer making store. Not sure if it would be the same darn thing, but I know that my parents have A hydrometer to measure the specific gravity when they are fermenting their wine.

[Gealcath]

Petsmart has little to nothing when dealing with SW, which is why as much as i hate to say it, Petco is better.

[Aquarius0015]

Richmond has no PetCo's as far as I know...

[caz]

petsmart should have live sand. its comes in a bag with a little bit of water in it. its more expensive than playsand, but since this is a 10 gallon, you dont have to buy as much and can buy smaller amounts of the nicer stuff.

[Aquarius0015]

Are you sure? The Petsmarts I go to barely have a marine section let alone marine fish, inverts, or any other living marine thing.

[Aquarius0015]

Just back from the LFS (petsmart did not have live sand, btw). They had live sand, but it was the stuff sealed up in a plastic bag. The salesperson said that the bacteria would be good sealed up like that for up to a year, but for $20 I really didn't want to take a chance. The pool sand I bought was $5 for 50lbs. I hope it will be okay. Today I bougt a mini-jet submersible pump, a plastic Instant Ocean brand hydrometer and a Tetra Laborett test kit. The egg crate has been cut down to size and the tank is about to be spray-painted (all taped off and everything).

[Aquarius0015]

I was quite productive in terms of aquaria today. I didn't do a professional job with the spray paint background, but it's good enough for government work, maybe even a little better. I made up about six gallons of saltwater, with a specific gravity of 1.022/1.023 or so at 79*F. I still have a few more gallons to make, but I don't want the tank to overflow when I add the live rock. The substrate is 2" or so of pool sand. I searched all over the internet for weird chemical properties of pool sand and couldn't find anything- it seems to be regular sand, just a certain size. I wanted the DSB effect but 3" plus of wet sand is REALLY heavy and I don't really want to move that much. I hope 2" will suffice or at least confer some of the positive side effects of DSB. At this point I would just die if someone piped up and said that pool sand isn't good for SW tanks.

Right now I've got a 50w heater, a thermometer, and a Mini-jet 404 (surprising amount of flow!) in my tank. If by tomorrow everything is still running smoothly and the temperature remains constant, I will buy some live rock and begin cycling.

I know that it's better to cycle with a dead shrimp, but I live in a 9'x13' dorm. It's too hard to escape the odor of decomposing things in such a small space. I can't take the chance that my room might reek like rotting seafood while my tank cycles.
Anyway, I don't know how much live rock to pick up tomorrow. Three pounds? That sounds like a nice amount. I'd like to eventually have LR from two or three different LFS's.

Tomorrow I will also order things online. I'm in need of lighting that will allow me to keep "easy" corals should the desire ever strike me. Something like this (http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=24049;category_id=1875;pcid 1=1843;pcid2=) maybe, or is that not enough wattage?

I also would like to get an AC 500, an auto-fish feeder, maybe the AC surface skimmer if I can determine whether or not I could benefit from one, and maybe supplements (inverts need iodine, right?).

Sorry for the length, I'm just super excited.

[ChicoRaton]

You're going to want to get that pool sand out of there ASAP. It contains anti-algae chemicals that are highly toxic to invertebrates

Haha, no, just kidding. Sounds like it'll be cool. Get some pictures up if you can!

As for the lighting, if you want to save a buck or two, get a kit from AHsupply.com and build your own canopy. That's what I'm doing. I just got my order today. 14 ballasts and wiring kits, 4 13 watt bulbs, and lots of pop-in vents. I have a fan I am going to install into the canopy pushing air out, with the vents located so they let the incoming air cool off the bulbs and ballasts.

on a 10g, I'd go with a little more than 28 watts. Of course this is coming from the guy with 52 watts over a 5.5 gallon. soo.....yeah.

[Aquarius0015]

Okay, from AH supply, how about one 2x36 watt Bright Kit with 17.5"L x 7"W x 2"H reflector? That's 7.2 wpg for $63 plus S&H.

That's a fair price it seems, but the money isn't so much the issue here. I don't have any tools with me at school, so a DIY canopy is kinda hard. Does Home Depot or Lowe's saw lumber into appropriately sized pieces for you? If so, that would help a lot, but I would still need a way to make holes for vents. The canopies on AH seem OK, but that would still leave me needing to cut vent holes, so I might as well try DIY.

[ChicoRaton]

Home depot or lowes should cut the lumber for you. It just costs a certain price per cut. You still have to buy the whole board I think. Also, if you can design the canopy so it has gaps in it, one at the top and one at the bottom, you should get enough airflow through it via convection. The 2x36w kit would work great on a 10g. just get the combo (50/50) bulbs.

[caz]

by the time, effort, and money it takes to build a canopy and retrofit kit, you could buy the 1 x 96 watt coral life power quad with this light, you can keep almos anytype of corals you wanted

[Aquarius0015]

Nifty thought, but it's 36" long and my tank is 20".

[Aquarius0015]

However... I could get the Coralife 1 x 96 watt retrofit kit for about $90, but then I would still need a DIY canopy. Alternatively there is this (http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=29617;category_id=1875;pcid 1=1843;pcid2=) (Current USA Orbit 20" 2 x 40 Watt Power Compact Strip Light W/Lunar Light) and I wouldn't have to worry about a canopy.

But do I really need all that wattage for easy to keep corals?-- the only ones I truly think I'm going to want are zoo's because they are so pretty.

Today I went to the LFS and I only intended to buy a few pounds of cured live rock to cycle. The salesperson (generally a knowledgeable guy) told me to go ahead and get 10 lbs right now. Normally I wouldn't be pressured, but I'm such a novice at this I had a moment of weakness. However, he did say that they had just received this shipment of Fiji rock, so I'm thinking that means it wasn't cured, right? I mean, it's not a big deal because I have to cycle anyway, I just want to make sure I understand correctly.

So, I bought 9.53 lbs and put it in my tank and mixed up about another gallon and half of saltwater to top off the tank. Within a few hours I tested it.. Now, this was the first time I've ever used this kit, so I don't how accurate these numbers are:

pH: 7.7 (too low, right? I'm worried)
kH: 10
Ammonia: Between 0.25 and 1.0 (I know that's a wide range but I ended up with a bright green color that didn't look anything like the subdued green of 0.25 or the bluish-green of 1.25)

I didn't bother with nitrites. Just so you know, I used distilled water and Instant Ocean mix, and my specific gravity is between 1.022 and 1.023

I was going to post a picture but photobucket.com isn't working right now...

[caz]

you can buy the whole strip light for 88 bucks. i have it on my 10 gallon. i would definately suggest buying the legs for it though. the total bill will be around 106 bucks.

http://secure.microbyte.net/virtual/webaquatics/onlinestore/detail.cfm?ID=CL53101&storeid=1

[mogurnda]

Looks as though you're cycling. The pH is probably low because of acids produced by the decomposition of the stuff on the live rock. To keep things as healthy as possible, keep doing regular water changes to try to keep the ammonia below 1, and siphon off as much of the debris as you can.

It's probably good that you got all the live rock at once, you won't have to worry about die off from adding more.

The more light you have, the better the growth, but the 2X40 will be fine for zoos and some softies. Having 2 bulbs would allow you to rotate bulbs one at a time, so that the change is less dramatic, but the 96 watt system is a good one.

[Aquarius0015]

I think I'm going to go with the 96watt system. Is this Web Aquatics site a trustworthy place?

[mogurnda]

I haven't used them, but the price is similar at MArine and Reef (http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/power_aqualight.html), which has been a great company for me.

[Aquarius0015]

Super, I'm going to go with Marine and Reef. It turns out Big Al's has the same fixture (under the wrong category!) but it's slightly more money. I could take them up on their offer and get the lights for 5% less than M&R, but I lost my VIP card and I want to try out a new company anyway- I'm not displeased with Big Al's but not super impressed, either.

Do you recommend the 3/4 watt LED moon light? I know it's completely optional, but is the effect worth the price?

[mogurnda]

I'm probably in the minority, but I think moonlights probably annoy the fish. Good for late night tank watching, though.

[Aquarius0015]

Do they have an on/off switch or do you just plug it in when you want it?
This tank is going about three feet from my bed, and I want to be able to turn off the neon blue light when I'm ready for sleep without crawling around fiddling with the cords plugged into my surge suppressor.

Edit: By the way, isn't it funny how I originally was going to have a 28 watt fixture and not even a week later I'm ready to buy a 96 watt fixture and possibly moon lighting?

[caz]

Edit: By the way, isn't it funny how I originally was going to have a 28 watt fixture and not even a week later I'm ready to buy a 96 watt fixture and possibly moon lighting?

get out your wallet, cause its all down hill from here :) i thought i was done with my nano for a while, but i got bored between classes and went and bought an ac500 to use as a fuge. who knows what ill be buying next week :)

you will be happy with the 96 watt light. as far as the moonlight goes, if you can afford it, go for it. because you must keep in mind that with a nano, you will probably be keeping your lights on a timer, for about 8-10 hours a day. i do not have it myself, i built my own, but i would probably use it if i had it :)

[Aquarius0015]

Oh, the AC 500 (which is eventually destined for fuge goodness) will be ordered tonight from Big Al's for a >$25 savings vs. my LFS.

I'm going to spring for the 0.75 watt moon light. I doubt less than a watt will bother my fish too much. I'm also buying an auto-feeder, a Visi-Therm stealth heater (I'm unhappy with my Marineland heater- not precise enough), and a nano-filter for my 2.5 Mini-Bow.

Good thing I have a job. I'm afraid to add together all the receipts... I'm sure I've passed $250 by now.

Ooops :D

[mogurnda]

My 20 gallon reef started as a FO tank with 2 clowns and stuff I had lying around. Then, $1000 later... :laugh:

[caz]

local petsmarts will match their online price of 32 bucks. originally it was 72 in the store, i just printed out the price of it, and brought it in. which might work out better for you, no shipping :)

[Aquarius0015]

Egads, I had just thought the same thing and was about to say that there has been yet ANOTHER change of plans. I don't know if my local Petsmart carries the AC500, but I'm pretty sure they have the AC300. However, I was thinking about getting the AC300 anyway, because I've been reading the nano-reef refugium board, and they seem to agree that one needs to modify the AC500 to slow down the flow. I really don't want to deal with that, so maybe I'll go with the lower gph flow of the AC300. It's still a sizeable amount of water volume added...

Edit: Plus, I can have it NOW!!!!


instant gratification junkie, what?

[Aquarius0015]

Petsmart was out of AC300's! So I got a 500 for $32, sweet :D. Also went to a different LFS than the one I normally go to and they gave me a free pound of live sand and even a few free blue hermits! The employee said that they should survive the cycling process. If they don't, well, that's kinda sad, but then again, they were free... He might've put a few astro snails in there, too, I haven't checked yet. It's a shame this place is so far away from my school or I would hands down have a new LFS. I bought I nitrate test kit so I didn't feel like a complete free-loader.

Now I just have to find an easy way to weaken my new cyclone-machine :D.

[caz]

take the black ring out. the part that connects the motor to the intake. this slows it down a bunch

[ChicoRaton]

sounds like a good LFS to me :P

Might be worth your time to head out there if you get $5 worth of free stuff each time :D

[Aquarius0015]

No snails, but I got 3 blue ones and a red one, and a few empty shells for them to move into later if they want.

Here's hoping that they survive the cycle. I did a two gallon-ish water change and I don't even want to tell you what the ammonia was AFTERWARDS. This is WITH the added volume of the AC500, too. I was going to do another WC, but I'm out of distilled water for now. I could filter a few gallons through my Brita, but I don't know if that's an OK to do.

They're such fun, my hermits, eating the crud off the live rock, let's hope they are hardier than they look.

[caz]

they are pretty hardy. i use my PUR water filter for my water changes. havent lost anything since may :)

[ChicoRaton]

just so you know, PUR filters and brita filters are basically just charcoal filters. They won't remove nutrients from your water like phosphates/nitrates, etc etc. Good for removing chlorine and sediment. There's also an ion exchange resin in some, but it doesn't remove much at all from your water.

see http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/brita.html

I'd stick with RO/DI or distilled.

[caz]

it will serve as a good replacement, especially during a cycle though...

[ChicoRaton]

Um, I'll have to disagree. Brita-filtered water cannot replace RO water. You can use it to mix salt water, but you can also use tap water...