Substrate, fertz ?s

[dwayne]

Hi!

Well I (finally!) bought flourish tabs this weekend. I haven't put them into my tank just yet, because when I was at Petsmart, I noticed a bag of Flourite (I think that's what it's called... looks almost like large grained black dirt?). It was $24.99 for this bag, looked like 10lbs, and I didn't purchase it because the girl said they DO make smaller bags, but the store was out of stock, and since I only have a 29 gallon w/ 2 sword plants (right next to each other) I can get away w/ a smaller bag.

Anyway, my few questions!

1 ~ Flourish Tabs: Len or someone else had previously mentioned something about cutting them in half. I have 2 sword plants, as I said, one a bit larger than the other. The larger one is in a pot, which is in the gravel, the smaller one is just in the gravel. The roots are growing like mad in both of the plants! But I'm wondering if I should take the larger one out of the pot, in order for it to get the nutrients from the tabs? Should I cut, say, 2 tabs into 2 pieces each, and put them one on each side of each of the plants?

2 ~ Flourite (or something called something like flourite!) substrate: Would it be beneficial to get a small bag of this stuff, to bury the roots of the plants into (I'd probably put it in the left back/mid half of my tank, and then put gravel on top). This thread (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33577) shows you where my plants are... so the new substrate would go in that area only (until I decide to add more plants, and/or have money to buy another bag to cover the rest of the tank).

3 ~ I was using another fertilizer called Plant Gro (see this thread (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32776) post #8 for details. I used the last bit of it this weekend. Now that I have the flourish tabs, is it beneficial to use this Plant Gro as well?

Hmmm, that's all I can think of ... thanks in advance!!!

~Tara

[djlen]

Unless they've changed packaging, Flourite only comes in, I believe 15 or 16lb. bags.
May have changed however. Shop around...that price is ridiculous.

No. 1: I at no time, no way endorsed in any way, the use of any fertilizer you stick into your substrate......period. A waste of money, IMO, because they are not necessary and risky to use. BTW, if they are growing like mad without that crap, I rest my case. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

No. 2: Just lay the 'Flourite' on top and plant into it. The substrates will mix together over time anyway. I have done 50/50 Flourite/reg. gravel on numerous occasions with good success. Moving established substrate around unnecessarily is a disturbance to the system. Just plant into it.
For Swords with huge root systems, you can trim 40 - 50% of the root system off(with sharp scissors) when replanting. Never had one croak on me when doing that.

No. 3: I would need to know your lighting situation and whether or not you inject, to comment on fertilization. However the supplement you refer to appears to be a Trace mix. Plants need more than that for good growth.

Len

[dwayne]

You are funny Len! OK, I take that back... Len wasn't the one who recommended the tabs to me, :laugh: ! The reason I got them, besides someone mentioning them, was that they last 3-4 months, and have pretty much the same nutrients as the liquid stuff that I was using (which I went thru a whole bottle in a month!)...

I will definately shop around for Flourite... that price did seem quite high (and leave it to the Petsmart employees to tell me that they do in fact make a smaller bag when they don't :rolleyes: ) Do you think I should take the large sword out of the little pot that it's in, or is that unnecessary?

My lighting is nothing special for planting -- just whatever came with the hood that I bought (Eclipse Natural Daylight F18T8)... the swords are doing awesome, my java fern sprouted 2 new babies, but the initial one died, and the moss is doing well too...

Thanks
~Tara

[125gJoe]

I think 100% Flourite would look really good! And - the plants would love the stuff.. Mixing it with regular gravel is certainly OK, but my taste would be 100% Flourite.

I'll see if I can find more info and prices on it....

;)

Edit:

At BigAlsOnline.com a 15 pound bag goes for $12.00

You really should look at this link:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/flourite.html

Here's just one of the comments...

"Flourite

by Sherlock Wong <wong/dt.wdc.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999

One of the key benefits of using Flourite alone is that
you can stir it up, and it does not cloud up the water
too much. This is great for maintenance, you can vaccum the
gravel without creating a mess.

Also, Flourite alone is quite nice looking, so
why mix it with something that will spoil the looks?

Thanks
S. Wong

I have to agree, it looks nice, and very natural too...

___________

Oh yeah...
That reminds me... Someone here debated me on the benefits of Flourite and Onyx Sand (both SeaChem products), and I had to 'drag' Greg Morin here to prove what I was saying about how good these products are.... ;) This was awhile back...

[dwayne]

Thanks for that link Joe, I'll have to read that in a bit when I have some time... and I'll definately look into big al's for the flourite! I don't know if I would necessarily go 100% flourite, only because I really like the looks of my natural colored gravel (larger bits, not teeny tiny)... maybe I'll do 90% flourite and put the gravel in a thin layer up the front end of the tank...

I just had a thought though. Will the Flourite (or even the flourish tabs, for that matter), mess with my water? I never can remember what my readings are for my gh and kh, but they're always very low (I use test strips, and the readings are always the first or second #)... my ph is always stable around 6.8.

Is Flourite a substitute for flourish tabs or other fertilizers, or is it ok to use both?

Thanks again! :)
~Tara

[Jay]

The only way fluorite will mess with your water is if you do not wash it enough before using it. By messing with it, I mean cloudy! This stuff is worth its weight in gold for plants but it is a real pain in the a** to wash. It looks great in the tank, vacuums easily, but like I said do not skimp on the washing.

Fluorite will not change your ph, it has a very high cec rating, is iron rich (only available to roots not the water column). Does not compact, does not dissolve, it is great stuff, my plants love it. I use no substrate ferts, and agree with Len that there are too many negatives and not enough positives to fool with them.

[125gJoe]

I have had nice success with Aquarium Pharmeceuticals Root Tabs. But I use them sparingly around larger plants' root system.

[djlen]

I have mixed Flourite 60/40 with that light, relatively small diameter natural color gravel that they sell almost everywhere, with a light coating of peat moss as a base, with very nice results.
It saves a little money, and lightens up the over all look of the substrate. My plants are doing great in that mix.
BTW, if you give the Flourite a light wash to rinse off the excess dust, lay it into the tank and then fill using a bowl to over flow into the tank, you will not get much clouding and will save many particles that will eventually sift down into the bottom of the substrate where it can provide it's nutrients. The stuff is expensive and I hate to waste any that I don't have to.

Len

[beviking]

Will the Flourite (or even the flourish tabs, for that matter), mess with my water?

Thanks again! :)
~Tara

The biggest problem with using fert tabs is when you disturb the substrate and the nutrients get mixed into the water column. Generally leads to algae blooms. Leave it alone and it will be o.k..

[Captain Hook]

I've successfully pulled and moved plants around with gravel ferts attached to them. I use Jobes sticks for lush ferns and palms. When I pull the plant out some of the small bits float around in the water. So I just quickly pulled out my gravel vacuum and got as much as I could. No algae problems resulted.

However I don't recommend using them unless you are very set on how you have your tank. If not they are a real pain.

[dwayne]

Hmmm, thanks guys... from what I've read about laying down the substrate, it seems as though I'll have to empty my tank to do it? No reaching in and dropping it down like I did w/ the new gravel... am I reading the threads wrong (entirely possible, I'm SO tired today, lol).

~Tara

[djlen]

If you currently have a mature, healthy substrate that is not too deep(1 -3") you could add a layer of Flourite right over top of it.
I have done this with good success in the past, but I like a deeper substrate than most people use.
The suggestion above regarding a dusting of peat is geared more toward a new set up and not necessary if your substrate is healthy.
The old and new 'layers' will eventually mix together, so you have to envision what you are currently using, mixed with the light coffee color of Flourite and make a decision based on your taste.
To do this, rinse the Flourite; siphon off and bucket as much tank water as possible with fish in the buckets(or another tank); lay in the Flourite and refill slowly to approx. 2/3 full and top it off with a tap water change.

Len

[biogirl361]

could anyone who has used that profile aquatic soil tell me a little more about it? it seems like a good compromise between expensive substrates and the cheaper plain sand (student budget alert). what is it's consistancy, more sandlike or more gravel-like? is it light or dark in color? does it include nutrients or would plants still benefit from substrate tabs?

[beviking]

Search the forum. Leopardess uses it to great success!

[djlen]

It is a bit lighter(in color), and more uniform in individual pebbles(for lack of a better term). It does darken up some as it ages, and looks better, IMO.
It is quite a bit lighter(in weight) which makes planting certain plants a bit more of a challenge, as they tend to float out of it easier than Flourite.
Also, when gravel siphoning, it's lighter weight requires more care, so as not to suck it up with the mulm.
It's a clay based substrate, very similar to Flourite, but with similar CEC and is more porous. The porosity is what causes it to be lighter.
Over all, for a person on a budget, I would recommend it if you are willing to live with these small drawbacks.
I bought a 40lb. bag for about $15, and it comes in smaller bags.

Len

[125gJoe]

...... ....many particles that will eventually sift down into the bottom of the substrate where it can provide it's nutrients. The stuff is expensive and I hate to waste any that I don't have to.

LenExactly..
It's best not to be too thorough when rinsing Flourite or Onyx Sand. Keep some of the fine 'particles' - it will settle just fine within a few hours.