Angel Pain

[xiliquiern]

First off, thanks to all the people that helped with my ammonia problem. I started over from scratch and it all worked out fine.

What I have:

Tank:
25 gal Eclipse (good, right? maybe?)

Fish:
1 rhino pleco (~4")
2 glass catfish (~2.5")
1 "darter" it's a catfish of somesort out of a stream...very small and docile (~3")
3 angels, roughly the same size (~5" from top to bottom of fins)


I have watched both during feedings and during normal activities and there does not seem to be any form of agression between any of the fish. However, one of the angels seems to be missing a few scales and one of the long strands (what are those called?)is suddenly shorter. Any ideas on what the problem may be?

[biogirl361]

i'm guessing the "strands" are their ventral fins (unless you mean the top and bottom of their tail, which is longer than in the middle?) anyways i am guessing your angels had a minor spat while you weren't looking. when i had two 5" angelfish in my 20 gallon, they fought fiercely at times. having 3 and a larger tank would lessen this fighting, but they probably aren't totally peaceful at all times. just a guess.

[xiliquiern]

Well, I just woke up and the same angelfish has a large split running all the way horizontally through his tail fin and has a noticeable hole in his lower fin. I suppose that getting a couple more angels might fix this problem and that until then I should probably put him in a tank by himself? He's getting pretty ripped up.

[gonefishin]

Agressive fish will be agressive. take two out if you want a perfect angel. Adding more will just cause more spats. I'd take one out and leave 1 male & 1 female if you can, they might still fight but not as much. I know about having 3 of the same fish (see below) and the nicked fins don't bother me so much (they grow back). But angels are a "finny" fish so you might mind the nicked fins.

[biogirl361]

i had 1 male and 1 female (they spawned once) and they fought really really bad, it got to where i had to leave the lights off all day and separate them with my own hand before they killed each other (separating them into different tanks was not an option i had at the time). so leaving 1 male and 1 female might work but it certainly might only make things worse. i wouldn't add any more though unless you have a bigger tank to move them all into. like was stated, if you don't like the idea of beat up angelfish from time to time then i would just have 1 angelfish and some schools of tetras or some other peaceful fish in there.

[JSchmidt]

You already have too many fish for a 25; adding more angels (or any other fish, for that matter) will only worsen the problems. You're tank is probably too small for fish the size of your angels. Cramping the fish will exacerbate territory disputes, unless you do some sort of controlled overstocking like with an african cichlid tank. I've never heard of anyone overstocking with angels, though.

Jim

[xiliquiern]

You already have too many fish for a 25; adding more angels (or any other fish, for that matter) will only worsen the problems. You're tank is probably too small for fish the size of your angels. Cramping the fish will exacerbate territory disputes, unless you do some sort of controlled overstocking like with an african cichlid tank. I've never heard of anyone overstocking with angels, though.

Jim

I don't overstocked at all. I think that some of my supposed measurements are off. I'm not sure...he's a pic to give you an idea of the setup:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/xiliquiern/DSCF0380.jpg

I don't mean to be argumentative. All the fish have plent of room to swim around. The catfish are behind the filter, were they are in the pic, and were they always have been, ever since I first got the tank. I know it could use more plants...I'm working on that. Size wise, however, I thought it would be okay.

[Dangerdoll]

I'm going to agree with Jim, getting more angels for this tank will only exacerbate territory disputes which you are already having as you have witnessed the damages on the fish with the worse worn fins. Your tanks looks great and so do the Angels, however, they also look pretty young. With that in mind, these guys are going to reach adult size and in that case is when you will see the cramped quarters these guys are fighting over, if they all make it to adult size before damaging each other too extremely. 1 Angel minimally requires 20 gaollons of water space and then it 10 gallons per additional fish. Angels are cichlids in every sense of the word and often display "cichlid" behavior as they become adults and begin to spawn. If these guys are spatting now while they are young, the damages will only get worse as they age. Looks like someone has a great excuse for another tank ;)

[xiliquiern]

Yeah, I've heard that. Several people at the fish store have told me (and several websites say the same thing) that having three angels is the worst number possible. Everyone at the store that had angels said that have 4 or more angels quiets the disputes down a lot (maybe so it's not 2:1 odds? I don't really understand why). I think I'll get another angel for now, and if necessary upgrade to a 50+ gallon in year or two. I can always seperate them for a time if they do grow to quickly and get rid of the glass catfish. I'm a bit out of space right now, and will be moving to college in a year and a half so I may have to leave the tank behind or sell the fish anyway =(

Regardless, thanks for the help...I'll be approaching this situation with caution.

[JSchmidt]

I think adding more angels is asking for trouble, but you obviously have to decide for yourself. One thing that often helps is to get more plants, real or fake. My angels love to hide amongst tall grass-like plants. My angel tanks are filled with plants to provide some cover for these fish. Seems to help...

Good luck,
Jim

[xiliquiern]

Hmm...yeah. More plants sounds like a wise idea...any suggestions on tall grasslike plants that are fairly hardy and don't need all sorts of extra supplements?

[biogirl361]

anacharis
cheap, grows fast, grows tall, doesn't really need any special lights or supplements... do rhino plecos eat plants?

[xiliquiern]

Mine hasn't touched them so far. Thanks...I'll look into those plants =)