Discus Problems...

[Stephen]

I have a 75 gallon planted discus tank and I'm all of a sudden having some problems.

Tank Setup and Water Parameters
75 gallons (has been set up for 4 months, discus have been in almost a month)
4 Discus (originally 6)
6 cories
1 Pim cat
Temp 84.6 (night) - 86.9 (day)
Amon - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
PH - 6.2
50 % water change every Sunday morning
25- 30% every Wed. night
Large Wet/Dry Filter
1 HOT Magnum
1 Tetra 60
1 300 and 2 150 watt heaters
DIY CO2
3.2 Watts per gallon lighting
4 inches of a local sand/gravel mix substrate
Driftwood (2 large and 2 medium)
1 amazon sword
Rotala Indica
Micro Swords
Baby Tears
Wisteria
Water Sprite
Chil. Val

The tank has been up for 4 months and the discus have been in there for almost 1. I started off with 6 discus. On sunday I did a 50%+ - 60% water change and cleaned the gravel. I filled the tank back up (which takes 4+ hours with the fitting I use on the end of the hose) and added "blackwater extract" (I think that's what it's called) by tetra for the first time. Monday morning I found one of the smaller discus on the floor dead and another had gotten into the over flow box for the skimmer and was sucked onto the overflow tube. It was also dead. The 4 remaining discus seem fine except that the biggest has become VERY VERY aggressive. One of the discus hides in the corner of the tank to avoid it. The other 2 hang out with it but are chased away violently and repeatdly. The one that's been hiding ate this morning but this afternoon and tonight it stayed hidden during feeding. It's also become very dark. Almost black.

I've ordered 4 discus that arrive thursday to replace the 2 and I'm hoping it will bring things back to normal. Is 8 too many for this tank? If so I can move 2 of them to another established tank.

I'm curious if anyone thinks the 2 missing fish along with/or adding the blackwater extract has brought about this aggression and jumping? The fish looked fine the day before and after the water change. Also since adding the blackwater extract and the 2 fish jumping I've noticed the fish are a little jumpy when I approach the tank. Before they would come to the front and beg anytime someone approached.

I'm really confused and am hoping someone can anyone offer any suggetions? I've never heard of discus jumping before and the others I've mentioned it to haven't either. Also it would be very hard for them to get into the overflow box unless they actually jumped over the top into it.

[Stephen]

Also just for a note I have never noticed anything I mentioned previously when doing water changes. The discus hide during the water changes and come back out soon after it's finished or are at the front of the tank when anyone is near. Also Sunday was the first time I added the blackwater extract.

[PumaWard]

I wouldn't add the black-water extract, you don't need it.

8 adult discus is too much for a planted tank. As for what's going on, I am not sure what it is, but how large are the discus? Did you q-tank them before adding them to your tank? Are there any signs of external disease?

Be sure to q-tank new arrivals in a seperate tank at 88-90F(dropped down to 85-86 after 3 days) for 3-4 weeks. This process should not be overlooked because it will save your fish, time, and money in the long run ;).

[JSchmidt]

If things were OK before adding the extract, and after adding it you experienced problems, I'd recommend you stop using it.

I don't know if this is true of discus specifically, but some fish become more aggressive when stressed or irritated. It doesn't seem to take much to bring out the aggressiveness of cichlids.

Jim

[NatakuTseng]

Discus are cichlids, so they are going to be aggressive to an extent. Of the 8 Puma and I Just purchased 2 of them are always always harassing the other 6, but with 6 others it spreads the aggression out. I would be more apt to say that the blackwater extract was responsible for the deaths, it changes your water composition way too fast. I agree with Puma, 8 adults in a planted 75 are too much, and you really need to quarinteen new fish (yes I know my spelling is atrocious) Follow puma's advice as well as I would suggest reading the article Puma, Joe and Myself put together that is now in the articles forum, or in my signature.

[Stephen]

I'm planning on placing the new discus in a 40 gallon Q tank when they arrive. I should have mentioned this I guess. I thought about it and am only going to put 2 back into the tank and place the other 2 in a different tank when they are finished with the Q tank. There was no signs of parasites at all before this happening. I'm also thinking it was the blackwater extract that caused these problems. Other on another message forum seem to agree also. I'll never use the crap again. Oh... And the discus are around 4".

[NatakuTseng]

Thats a good size to get them at, their immune systems are pretty well established and they can take changes a lot better than smaller fish. Mind if I ask where your getting them from?

[Stephen]

They are coming from a breeder in Maryland. I'm also getting 3-4 more from a breeder from PVAS in Northern Virginia (these will go in another tank). The ones I ordered that will arrive Thursday are 3" blue diamonds and the one's I'm picking up saturday are 1.5" red turqs.

It's funny. Since getting my first discus I've become addicted. It's also funny how I'm suddenly having problems after all these years of fish keeping. Which currently includes large aro's, stingrays, and shovelnoses.

[PumaWard]

Do you have seperate q-tanks for them? Coming from different sources, they may be carrying different disease that could affect one another.

Also, 1.5'' is pretty small and they have quite undeveloped immune systems. If you can get fish over 2-2.5'', that would be better.