don't "just vote"

[Lauren]

A lot of people this year are pounding into our heads the message of “Just Vote”. MTV, P Diddy, Eminem, even little Paris Hilton agrees, it is a crime not to vote (P Diddy will even kill you if you don’t, or so it seems from his Vote or Die shirts). They tell you to “Just Vote” no matter what you vote for, that it is out duty as Americans to vote. A grand message… not.

Voting is not a duty. If that were so, you wouldn’t have to register. Turn 18, vote, or else there will be negative repercussions. This is a duty. Voting is a privilege, a right, one that we cannot take for granted.

As Americans, we tend to do this; we tend to forget that we are a small minority of people around the world who choose their leaders. While we are waiting for election results, many others around the world are waiting for the next cue, for the next military leader to take over. We can’t forget this.

To vote without reason, to vote just because you can, is taking our right for granted. To go into that booth tomorrow with your only formal education on the issues coming from paid advertisements, is to forget that we are privileged. To “Just Vote” is to stomp on the graves of the brave men who fought for our independence. Uninformed voters are the greatest risk to democracy, more than nuclear proliferation, more than terrorists, more than all the evils of the world, because it takes away the meaning, the core, of democracy, the very thing that our enemies want do to.

So I challenge you tomorrow to not “Just Vote” but to vote for something you believe in, and know that those reasons are true. Spend some time tonight going through the issues of this election, not just the national one, but the local ones. Read up, form your opinions based on facts, not advertisements or hear say. Just vote with reasons, not just to vote.

[aquariumfishguy]

Voting shows that you have respect for the people around you, and for yourself for that matter. If you do not care who runs our country, why bother with anything else? I know - it sounds harsh, but that is just how I (personally) see it. I suppose "duty" means something different for each and every person?

I haven't seen what all the Hollywood stars have had to say, but I have paid attention to the MTV/P. Diddy remarks. I cannot see where they suggest voting "just to vote". In fact, I am impressed with how they are reaching young people this election year. Kudos to them. ;)

[gonefishin]

I disagree with your statement, that the efforts of people such as mnm and pdid, are negitave. They are trying to get more people to vote, but notice that they include internet sites or phone numbers which allow us to research what we are voting for. I do agree that we need to make an INFORMED choice. And the ads you've mentioned that I've seen have been non-partisan. Most of the other ads you see "inform" us as to why we should vote one way, without giving the opposing factors.

[Leopardess]

Yah - I really am impressed with the effort this time to get younger people to vote. I think it's assumed that they're saying vote for an informed choice. I mean...thats what everyone is saying when they push the fact that you need to get out and vote.

Because of those "Vote or Die" shirts and MTV emphasizing voting, a lot of people who might not otherwise have voted are probably going to be voting this year. Sure, some of them may think the issues and voting are cool because P.Diddy Daddy who's-ee-whats-it thinks they're cool - but at least they're engaging in the issues and not completely passing it up.

If anything, the hype only encouraged people to look the info up (or pay more attention) and vote.

Also - I'm not convinced voting IS only a right and not a duty (sure, it's a right that belongs to American citizens, but to say being a right and a duty are mutually exclusive, I'm not sure). It is our DUTY to exercise that RIGHT to vote, I think, to vote because that is the governmental system we are a part of. It is founded upon the principle that we will choose our leaders by voting. If you don't vote, we don't elect leaders. I think that lends itself to being a patriotic duty. We owe it to our country to support the system we have chosen.

[aquariumfishguy]

Voting is definitely not a right, no place does it say so in our constitution or any place really. Do you think that the States have to allow you to vote? No way... Then again, there would be backlash like no tomorrow in today's society, but it still doesn't mean it is a right that we have.

[FL Knifemaker]

My feeling is that's it's a hard earned right and an obligation that one should feel good about doing. Consider countries where there is no voting. If you live in this country and enjoy it's freedoms............. keeping informed and participating in our elections should be the least one could do.

As far as celebs rousing the voting public, I think many of them do more harm for their party than they realize. I doubt there is a single one that is non partisen. Tomorrow will tell.

[Corax]

I personally think they're both a couple of dumbasses.. G.W. for lying to the people even if I DO support his removel and SH, and Kerry just on general principle.. I worry about who G.W. will choose to make war with next, and I worry that Kerry will bow down and kiss the feet of these people like Clinton did.. Therefore, I won't be attending the festivities tomorrow. Either way it goes, it won't be a positive direction and I want no hand in it..

I bet a few of you are wondering if someone stole my password right about now, right? Well Tweet Tweet, Birdie is back ;)

[Lauren]

Corax, Kerry was saying that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and had to be taken care of power before Bush was, he said this back when Clinton was in office. You wouldn't guess it by guessing what he says today, but he was for the war, he voted for it, made comments saying that we had to spend as much as possible to win the war, and that any senator who didn't vote for the 87 billion was a disgrace. Kerry has already turned an evil eye to Syria and North Korea. There is a chance that he will be more militant than Bush.

I was watching MTV the other night, and they cut in in the middle of the shows to send messages to vote. saying to vote for any reason, no matter what. Voting is important, but having a bunch of people, who wouldn't normally vote, vote because one tv station said to is wrong. go to www.mtv.com to see what i'm saying. note how the young black man in a suits comment about how he is voting because the government doesn’t want to pops up the most.

http://mail.roadfly.com/silverbeam/diddy.jpg

[PumaWard]

I agree, you should know what your voting for and know you believe in it.

I believe it is your duty to at least have an idea about what is going on so you can vote for what you believe... IMHO, voting blindly is just as bad as not voting at all.

[chunksofpoooo]

Voting is a right. it is also, more importantly, a duty that we should all take very seriously. I agree with puma; someone who votes just because MTV says its cool, or even worse just because pdiddy (i hate him) or eminem (not far behind pdiddy on the retard-o-scale in my book) says it is, that's just as bad as not voting at all.


do some reasearch people, vote intellegently, and maybe we can be viewed with a little more respect in the rest of the world's eyes.

[125gJoe]

I just need to add this....
I overheard on a certain (rap) radio station last week that there would be "demonstrations" on how voting 'machines' work. And, that people should not be afraid or intimidated... like the Republicans want "us" to be...

I thought how incredible it was??? What did I just hear???

Seems like there's a real long way to go before the 'races' will truly accept one another...... :(

[Lauren]

there are already 9 cases filed in florida against the republicans for intimidating blacks not to vote.

so i ask, who is the more racist groups? polls haven't even opened yet and fingers are already pointing.

[FL Knifemaker]

there are already 9 cases filed in florida against the republicans for intimidating blacks not to vote.

so i ask, who is the more racist groups? polls haven't even opened yet and fingers are already pointing.

Nothing was proven in 2000, nothing will be proven in 2004. If it was proven, believe me, Jeb Bush would NEVER have been re-elected Governor. Other than requiring proper ID, (picture/signature) EVERYONE that is properly registered will vote hassle free. If you forgot to check the "yes I'm an American Citizen" box and didn't properly fill out the registration, you might have a problem, race, creed or whatever doesn't matter. My wife had to go over her's twice, due to an issue with our address, she's white and blonde :D I and everone else will have to show the same ID, fill out the same registration, etc. If they claim this is intimidation then.................we don't have the proper smilie :) If the poles open at 6am and close at 8pm, you need to be there within that time, no crying about not having enough time to vote!!!! :mad: They don't close any poling sites early!!! That was a bunch of BS the media generated.

I just hope today goes smoothly and whoever the majority feels is most qualified is elected without a bunch of lawers getting involved.

[tomm10]

Voting is definitely not a right, no place does it say so in our constitution or any place really. Do you think that the States have to allow you to vote? No way... Then again, there would be backlash like no tomorrow in today's society, but it still doesn't mean it is a right that we have.

Voting most certainly IS a right under the Constitution:

"Amendment XXVI

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of age.


Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

I have a real problem with the rather elitist attitude that only the "informed" vote. I think you'd have a real hard time finding someone who had absolutely no opinion or knowledge of the candidate or issues. You will find plenty of people who are misinformed but, frankly, anyone who accepts, at face value, anything a politician says as fact is misinformed. (boy that's a lot of commas but it sounds right in my head).

Encouraging people to keep their votes to themselves unless they are informed is highly dangerous. Even if you are voting for a candidate based on one issue important to you, it is still your right and you should exercise it.

Those who don't vote forfeit the right to complain about whomever is elected.

[Dangerdoll]

I'm not in the voting talk here, I'm just glad the "Bird is back"!
http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage04/3.gif

[chunksofpoooo]

Even if you are voting for a candidate based on one issue important to you, it is still your right and you should exercise it.

Those who don't vote forfeit the right to complain about whomever is elected.


i cant agree more with the second statement, but im not so sure on the first. I think that people shouldnt vote on one principle or issue. You should be balanced; conservative in some areas, liberal in others. Dont vote for a canidate just because he/she (someday, we all hope, im sure) represents your party, and dont vote for a canidate just becuase he agrees with one side of an issue that you also agree with. You have to be a little more informed, you have to take it beyond those "first impressions" and the common knowledge. People who dont research their vote a little more than average forfeit thier right to complain when the new prez does something they dont agree with.

[aquariumfishguy]

To go back a few posts - voting is an official act, granted. But to think voting is a permanent right or something that cannot be revoked is dangerous thinking, IMO.

"The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

... that means a lot.

[tomm10]

To go back a few posts - voting is an official act, granted. But to think voting is a permanent right or something that cannot be revoked is dangerous thinking, IMO.

"The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

... that means a lot.

I don't want to get bogged down in this too much but the article specifically mentions voting is a right. The power of congress comes in enforcing this right not in modifying it. In order to alter or deny the right to vote an amendment to the constitution would have to be made. We are in no more danger of that than we are of an amendment allowing poodles the right to be president.

chunksofpoooo, my point was not that voters should not bother to be informed but rather that they don't use their limited knowledge as an excuse NOT to vote. Be as informed as you possibly can but even if you just know you can't stand X about candidate B vote and voice that opinion.

[cgrabe]

Voting, in America, is a right. It is not an inalienable right. Thus sayeth the Constitution.

[dwayne]

I don't consider myself an intellectual person. By no means am I a dummy, but I'm not the type to sit down and read the newspaper from cover to cover, and I very rarely read magazines like Newsweek and Time (though I have been known to watch CNN if there's nothing else on :) ).

I know who I'm voting for, I know the issues and I know where my candidate stands. I know quite a few people who think "I'm not well informed, therefore I shouldn't waste my vote, so I'm not getting involved at all". That is fundamentally wrong. As Tom posted, voting is a RIGHT given to all American citizens by our Constitution. Every single American aged 18 and older, should vote. People all over the world DIE FOR THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

I don't care if you are as informed as Peter Jennings or as uninformed as my brother (until we had a 3-hour sit down last weekend ;) ) - get the hell out and vote today.

There are quite a few tools will enable a voter to make an informed decision, with just a few minutes time investment... here are two, there are tons more - just go to google...
AOL News Election Guide (http://www3.capwiz.com/aol04/e4/dnet/?gridid=57361)
Vote Smart (http://www.vote-smart.org/)



IT'S YOUR RIGHT - GET OUT AND VOTE!
http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/jon/smillie_flag.gif

[FL Knifemaker]

I just voted here in Florida and everything went SMOOOOTHLY!! All the party supporters stayed well away from the entrance. I had to show to forms of ID and sign my name. There were observers, not sure from what party, but they were standing quietly behind the election workers. In a half hour, I never saw any of them say anything to anyone. I didn't see anyone with video cameras documenting anything. Hopefully this will be the norm across the rest of the state!!!!

[aquariumfishguy]

At 7 am this morning, we had about 30 protesters of Bush and about 15-20 of Kerry standing outside my local polling station. I guess SOME people are perky at 7 am. :p

[tomm10]

At 7 am this morning, we had about 30 protesters of Bush and about 15-20 of Kerry standing outside my local polling station. I guess SOME people are perky at 7 am. :p


hehe, I'm amazed by the tenacity of some stumpers. I don't even like getting up to go to work never mind to stand in the cold with a sign! :)

[aquariumfishguy]

You and me both. Sorry fellows, you'll have to win the Presidency without us, while we're warm inside. :dance

[Lauren]

I heard two Kerry supporters reasons for voting Kerry the other day, and I could so quickly disarm them of their reasons that it was silly.

1: Because Bush unfairly taxed the middle class
"No he didn't, do you understand how a tax cut that unfairly effected any class would not be passed through congress? the cuts were even across the board."

2: Because of Kerry's stance on the Kyoto agreement
"Which stance? This August 19th stance or his August 24th stance? On Friday 19 August, the campaign issued a document aimed at keeping the West Virginian coal industry open. It included the words, "John Kerry and John Edwards believe that the Kyoto Protocol is not the answer. The near-term emission reductions it would require of the United States are infeasible, while the long-term obligations imposed on all nations are too little to solve the problem."

But on 24 August, The Journal Times of Racine, Wisconsin, published an account of John Edwards' visit to the town the day before. According to the paper, Edwards "lamented" America's failure to join the Kyoto treaty."


Those were the issues most important to them, and they didn't have the facts right. that is why people need to be informed, and they need to agree with a canidate on more than just one area.

[tomm10]

I heard two Kerry supporters reasons for voting Kerry the other day, and I could so quickly disarm them of their reasons that it was silly.

1: Because Bush unfairly taxed the middle class
"No he didn't, do you understand how a tax cut that unfairly effected any class would not be passed through congress? the cuts were even across the board."

2: Because of Kerry's stance on the Kyoto agreement
"Which stance? This August 19th stance or his August 24th stance? On Friday 19 August, the campaign issued a document aimed at keeping the West Virginian coal industry open. It included the words, "John Kerry and John Edwards believe that the Kyoto Protocol is not the answer. The near-term emission reductions it would require of the United States are infeasible, while the long-term obligations imposed on all nations are too little to solve the problem."

But on 24 August, The Journal Times of Racine, Wisconsin, published an account of John Edwards' visit to the town the day before. According to the paper, Edwards "lamented" America's failure to join the Kyoto treaty."


Those were the issues most important to them, and they didn't have the facts right. that is why people need to be informed, and they need to agree with a canidate on more than just one area.

I believe the place where all voters are fully and correctly informed on all issues regarding the candidates is called Fantasy Land. For every Kerry supporter who is misinformed there is a Bush supporter who is just as misinformed.

Is it your belief that only those people who are 100% correctly informed of the stance of their candidates on every issue should vote? Because A) That's a vote of about 78 people nationwide and B) It really doesn't matter in the end because candidates only tell us what they believe we want to hear.

[chunksofpoooo]

chunksofpoooo, my point was not that voters should not bother to be informed but rather that they don't use their limited knowledge as an excuse NOT to vote.

like always, it comes down to americans being lazy :rolleyes:
doesnt look like thats gonna change anytime soon either

[tomm10]

like always, it comes down to americans being lazy :rolleyes:
doesnt look like thats gonna change anytime soon either

Again, I disagree...sort of. I won't challenge that in many ways Americans (self included) are lazy where we shouldn't be. However, the Democratic process is not some walk in the park that merely requires a 20 minute review to fully enlighten a voter. I would challenge you and anyone who complains about uninformed voters to explain to me the complex socio-economical impact of the Bush administration's foreign policy on the US.

I'm waiting. :D

Fact is, I wouldn't expect there are many people who could explain that. :eek: Does that mean you are uninformed and shouldn't vote? Its certainly not unimportant but its pretty complex. I think an aweful lot of people have at least a basic grasp of where the candidates stand on issues important to them. This country has been run for a long time on this system. Heck, until about a hundred years ago most of the voters probably couldn't read past an elementary school level and got most of their information through word of mouth!

Should you be informed as well as possible? Yup. Do you have to be to make the process work? Apparently not as history has shown. The reality is, the decisions these jokers make in office affect ALL of us so ALL of us should decide who gets elected.

*Edit* Smilies added to show I'm not getting worked up or trying to taunt/put down anyone. Just a friendly debate :)

[chunksofpoooo]

yeh dude, that was said jokingly:o

i realize this isnt a walk in the park

and if you want, i can explain the "complex"(;)) socio-economic effect that bush's foreign policy has on our nation

[tomm10]

and if you want, i can explain the "complex"(;)) socio-economic effect that bush's foreign policy has on our nation

hehe, you could try but my head would probably explode about two paragraphs in :D Either that or my adult ADD would kick in an I'd....where's my paperclip...

[chunksofpoooo]

SWEET! you have.....wait, what was i talking about?





hey look a bird!

walks away

[geoffgarcia]

you people get so worked up over nothing...
sheesh
get a life

[aquariumfishguy]

LMAO


... If you already voted, and was walking up to the building to vote, what does it matter if people tried saying stuff to you? I heard stuff from Bush AND Kerry supporters - I simply ignored them, as my vote isn't up to them.

[FL Knifemaker]

LMAO


... If you already voted, and was walking up to the building to vote, what does it matter if people tried saying stuff to you? I heard stuff from Bush AND Kerry supporters - I simply ignored them, as my vote isn't up to them.

Does that mean you voted twice??? :p If you did, I hope it was for BUSH!!! :soda:

[125gJoe]

.... ..... We are in no more danger of that than we are of an amendment allowing poodles the right to be president......That's just not fair at all! Miniature Dachshunds should have the right - not poodles! :D

And they should be allowed frequent breaks!

http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL332/715239/5528780/71898864.jpg

[PumaWard]

you people get so worked up over nothing...
sheesh
get a life


Maybe we're "worked" up is because there's a debate going on (one regaurding our next 4 years)... maybe you didn't notice? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.



Regaurding being an informed voter... it can only help you. I don't know as much as I can but I know enough to know where I stand (even if I can't vote ;) ). I watched all three debates and I watch the news. Being informed doesn't mean you know everything; it just means you know if a canidate matches your beliefs or not, IMHO...

[chunksofpoooo]

you people get so worked up over nothing...
sheesh
get a life


its ok to get worked up once in a while, if your passive about everything your not helping anything.

i do, however, find it funny to see this debate on a fish forum




oh yeh, its also funny to hear that comment from somenone who has "computer geek" as their occupation listing :p

[SimonWoodstock]

A lot of people this year are pounding into our heads the message of “Just Vote”. MTV, P Diddy, Eminem, even little Paris Hilton agrees, it is a crime not to vote (P Diddy will even kill you if you don’t, or so it seems from his Vote or Die shirts). They tell you to “Just Vote” no matter what you vote for, that it is out duty as Americans to vote. A grand message… not.

Voting is not a duty. If that were so, you wouldn’t have to register. Turn 18, vote, or else there will be negative repercussions. This is a duty. Voting is a privilege, a right, one that we cannot take for granted.

As Americans, we tend to do this; we tend to forget that we are a small minority of people around the world who choose their leaders. While we are waiting for election results, many others around the world are waiting for the next cue, for the next military leader to take over. We can’t forget this.

To vote without reason, to vote just because you can, is taking our right for granted. To go into that booth tomorrow with your only formal education on the issues coming from paid advertisements, is to forget that we are privileged. To “Just Vote” is to stomp on the graves of the brave men who fought for our independence. Uninformed voters are the greatest risk to democracy, more than nuclear proliferation, more than terrorists, more than all the evils of the world, because it takes away the meaning, the core, of democracy, the very thing that our enemies want do to.

So I challenge you tomorrow to not “Just Vote” but to vote for something you believe in, and know that those reasons are true. Spend some time tonight going through the issues of this election, not just the national one, but the local ones. Read up, form your opinions based on facts, not advertisements or hear say. Just vote with reasons, not just to vote.

I didn't read any of the other posts, mainly because I don't really have time now, but I totatlly agree with this and I have been "preaching" this to tons of people. People who know nothing about the candidates in any type election should not vote. If you vote, know who you are voting for, don't just pick a person your friend is voting for. It drives me crazy when someone says, 'It doesn't matter, just vote for someone". How is that logical, just vote for someone?

[ash]

I agree- but at the same time I think it's pretty pathetic how many people are so unwilling to do just a little research and take an hour to vote a minimum of every four years. It's pretty difficult not to manage to know SOMETHING about the candidates.

[OrionGirl]

It's nice to vote in Wyoming--no stumpers (well, it was 11 F out there yesterday morning ;) ), and no prrof of ID needed. That part actually is a little disturbing, but heck, there's only about 500,000 people in the state, so even if we all voted twice it wouldn't make much of an impact. :D

[dwayne]

As I said yesterday, you can become informed enough to make a smart decision by taking one or two hours and researching the candidates. I researched the candidates in my local elections yesterday here at work... took about an hour and a half. Of course I was very well informed about the president and the House candidates.

I don't know if anyone here listens to Jay Severin (he's on locally here, but from the way he talks he may be syndicated). Anyway, he said something that totally pi$$ed me off last night, and if my cell phone had been charged I would have called him (and am still so angry right now that I'm seriously considering writing a letter). He said 18-19-20 year olds should not be allowed to vote. Anyone who is that young has no experience in the world, and their only real job up until this point was suckling at their mothers breast. What the F is that supposed to mean? By 20 years old I'd been working a "real" job for almost 2 years. Honestly. If he had his way the frickin voting age would be raised to 30!!

*vent over*

My only point is that everyone SHOULD vote. Not uninformedly, but everyone should vote. IMHO I see nothing wrong with an uninformed person who wants to be responsible and vote, asking a family member or friend who they should vote for... it's better than not voting at all.

[ash]

That's bull, you should write a letter. What about the over 20 year olds who don't have "real" jobs? What if you're a 35 year old in food service or retail or whatever he doesn't consider a "real job? Do you never earn the right to vote?

[dwayne]

I was preparing to write a letter but then remembered how he is about getting exact wording correct... when people call or write to him, if they don't have exactly his words correct, even if their argument is valid, he basically treats them like crap -- and I was big time paraphrasing what he did say. Dammit, why didn't I jot it down immediately?!?!

But I agree, I know a lot of people older than me (I'm almost 31) who are WAY younger and less mature than some of the younger kids (19-22) that I know!!!!